Author Topic: MSM have been almighty quiet recently, is the investigation dead?  (Read 18651 times)

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Offline Carana

Re: MSM have been almighty quiet recently, is the investigation dead?
« Reply #60 on: March 15, 2015, 06:27:05 PM »
Thanks to a link by Heri, I was trying to decipher the commentary on this video clip:

http://sicnoticias.sapo.pt/pais/2015-03-13-Policia-inglesa-reuniu-se-com-as-autoridades-portuguesas-sobre-o-caso-Maddie

I can't quite make it out.

The commentary seems to be saying that the meeting had no specific agenda, other than a general situational review, but then a bit later something about the DNA issue of the current four arguidos.


Offline Carana

Re: MSM have been almighty quiet recently, is the investigation dead?
« Reply #61 on: March 15, 2015, 06:43:25 PM »
The bottom line seems to be that there was a general meeting between various representatives of authorities of the two jurisdictions, known to be connected to the Madeleine case, in which some specific topics may have been on the agenda.


I doubt that I will qualify as a tabloid headline writer any time soon...  8(8-))

Offline Anna

Re: MSM have been almighty quiet recently, is the investigation dead?
« Reply #62 on: March 15, 2015, 07:05:02 PM »
Yes, I'm aware of that, but if his function as a judicial authority - of whichever level - is related to the case, then in which capacity was he involved? He could be the judicial person overseeing the investigation (whatever the term), reporting to the AG.

I don't have a problem with that, but it seems odd that he's wearing two hats. This may be a temporary situation during what appears to be quite a big shake-up in Portugal.

Probably of no assistance, but here you go.....
Portugal

Law enforcement services in Portugal are provided by five different bodies:

“Polícia Judiciária” (PJ) - Criminal Investigation Police
Mandate: prevention, detection and investigation of violent, organized and financial crime.
Supervised by the Public Prosecutors Office, a body of autonomous magistrates, the PJ is part of the Ministry of Justice.

National Republican Guard – called “Guarda Nacional Republicana” (GNR) in Portuguese.
Mandate: ensure public order and investigate violent and non-organized crime in rural areas.
The GNR is part of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

Public Security Police – called “Polícia Segurança Pública” (PSP) in Portuguese
Mandate: ensure public order and investigate non-organized and violent crime in urban areas.
The PSP is part of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

Immigration and Border Agency – called “Serviço Estrangeiros e Fronteiras” (SEF) in Portuguese.
Mandate: responsible for border control and the prevention of illegal immigration. Part of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the SEF is also responsible for issuing entry and residence permits, as well as matters relating to deportation and asylum.

Portuguese Maritime Police – called “Polícia Marítima” (PM) in Portuguese. Part of the Ministry of Defence, the PM is the national naval service which patrols all Portuguese harbours.

http://www.interpol.int/Member-countries/Europe/Portugal

“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline G-Unit

Re: MSM have been almighty quiet recently, is the investigation dead?
« Reply #63 on: March 15, 2015, 10:33:54 PM »
It seems like a fairly normal periodical situational review to me.

ETA: Although that doesn't sound quite as sensational as "crucial summit meeting", does it?

I wonder who called the meeting? Did the Portugese invite the other parties to attend, I wonder  &%+((£
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Brietta

Re: MSM have been almighty quiet recently, is the investigation dead?
« Reply #64 on: March 16, 2015, 11:50:53 AM »
I wonder who called the meeting? Did the Portugese invite the other parties to attend, I wonder  &%+((£

Probably just another in a series of meetings to discuss operational matters and progress.  I always prefer round the table face to face meetings when possible as opposed to video conferencing, and Portugal is hardly on the other side of the world.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Alice Purjorick

"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Carana

Re: MSM have been almighty quiet recently, is the investigation dead?
« Reply #66 on: March 16, 2015, 12:24:27 PM »
I wonder who called the meeting? Did the Portugese invite the other parties to attend, I wonder  &%+((£

A mutually-convenient date and venue for the meeting was most likely established at the December one.

Offline G-Unit

Re: MSM have been almighty quiet recently, is the investigation dead?
« Reply #67 on: March 16, 2015, 01:05:44 PM »
A mutually-convenient date and venue for the meeting was most likely established at the December one.

I can't find much on the December meeting except to say that DCI Wall would be meeting with 'Portugese Police Chiefs' to be briefed. The latest meeting was said to have included some very high-up people, which could suggest significant findings. I would be surprised if they had significant news in December and waited three months to discuss it with the high-ups at a pre-arranged meeting. I would have expected the meeting to have been brought forward. If the meeting is not significant why all the high up people present?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-ex-pat-robert-murat-4786122
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: MSM have been almighty quiet recently, is the investigation dead?
« Reply #68 on: March 16, 2015, 03:01:15 PM »
I discussed the new info with another person.  We have both taken over major projects, so it was a case of what would we do in this situation and does it fit.

1.  Nicola Wall took over on late Dec 2014, and travelled to Faro, possibly for introductions to a number of key Portuguese officials located in the Algarve.

2.  A review of the project so far would have occurred.  Andy Redwood had his lines of enquiries, his priorities and his team organisation.  Nicola Wall should have her lines of enquiries, her priorities and her organisation.  That assessment and change would take time.  Whether it took 3 months is unlikely.  Get the changes bedded in, then tackle the next stage.

3.  It is now time to get the 'outsiders' on board, and the list in the original Portuguese article is exactly who I would be informing.  These are the people at the top and the key players.

4.  I would definitely make it face-to-face.  It is a 'hearts and minds' pitch.  Why has the British investigation altered course?  This requires that some of the evidence for such a change is available to hand.  Here's why the team will be acting on these priorities.  There is also a need to evaluate feedback, on how well the pitch is going.

5.  There may be a further practical reason for face-to-face.  If I wanted to go in a different direction on this, I would value input from the Portuguese legal side as to the best way to do so i.e. what is necessary within their system.

6.  The British media report comes later than the Portuguese ones, and it seems to be no more than a regurgitation of the Portuguese reports.  It 'adds' that the meeting was in Lisbon.  Since the Portuguese source said it happened in the Attorney General's office, and the Attorney General's office is in Lisbon, it adds nothing.  That means any leaks were on the Portuguese side, while the Brit side simply monitored the Portuguese media.  Assuming this is correct,  Nicola Wall has scored an early victory.  Nothing leaking from London, but something leaking from Lisbon.

If this line of thought is correct, I would not expect to see a flurry of requests over the next 2-3 months, as SY chomps through the new priorities, develops the evidence, then decides how to act on it.   
Ooh, a snowflake!

Offline Brietta

Re: MSM have been almighty quiet recently, is the investigation dead?
« Reply #69 on: March 16, 2015, 03:12:06 PM »
I discussed the new info with another person.  We have both taken over major projects, so it was a case of what would we do in this situation and does it fit.

1.  Nicola Wall took over on late Dec 2014, and travelled to Faro, possibly for introductions to a number of key Portuguese officials located in the Algarve.

2.  A review of the project so far would have occurred.  Andy Redwood had his lines of enquiries, his priorities and his team organisation.  Nicola Wall should have her lines of enquiries, her priorities and her organisation.  That assessment and change would take time.  Whether it took 3 months is unlikely.  Get the changes bedded in, then tackle the next stage.

3.  It is now time to get the 'outsiders' on board, and the list in the original Portuguese article is exactly who I would be informing.  These are the people at the top and the key players.

4.  I would definitely make it face-to-face.  It is a 'hearts and minds' pitch.  Why has the British investigation altered course?  This requires that some of the evidence for such a change is available to hand.  Here's why the team will be acting on these priorities.  There is also a need to evaluate feedback, on how well the pitch is going.

5.  There may be a further practical reason for face-to-face.  If I wanted to go in a different direction on this, I would value input from the Portuguese legal side as to the best way to do so i.e. what is necessary within their system.

6.  The British media report comes later than the Portuguese ones, and it seems to be no more than a regurgitation of the Portuguese reports.  It 'adds' that the meeting was in Lisbon.  Since the Portuguese source said it happened in the Attorney General's office, and the Attorney General's office is in Lisbon, it adds nothing.  That means any leaks were on the Portuguese side, while the Brit side simply monitored the Portuguese media.  Assuming this is correct,  Nicola Wall has scored an early victory.  Nothing leaking from London, but something leaking from Lisbon.

If this line of thought is correct, I would not expect to see a flurry of requests over the next 2-3 months, as SY chomps through the new priorities, develops the evidence, then decides how to act on it.

Excellent analysis; can't find a thing to argue with.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Eleanor

Re: MSM have been almighty quiet recently, is the investigation dead?
« Reply #70 on: March 16, 2015, 03:33:11 PM »
I discussed the new info with another person.  We have both taken over major projects, so it was a case of what would we do in this situation and does it fit.

1.  Nicola Wall took over on late Dec 2014, and travelled to Faro, possibly for introductions to a number of key Portuguese officials located in the Algarve.

2.  A review of the project so far would have occurred.  Andy Redwood had his lines of enquiries, his priorities and his team organisation.  Nicola Wall should have her lines of enquiries, her priorities and her organisation.  That assessment and change would take time.  Whether it took 3 months is unlikely.  Get the changes bedded in, then tackle the next stage.

3.  It is now time to get the 'outsiders' on board, and the list in the original Portuguese article is exactly who I would be informing.  These are the people at the top and the key players.

4.  I would definitely make it face-to-face.  It is a 'hearts and minds' pitch.  Why has the British investigation altered course?  This requires that some of the evidence for such a change is available to hand.  Here's why the team will be acting on these priorities.  There is also a need to evaluate feedback, on how well the pitch is going.

5.  There may be a further practical reason for face-to-face.  If I wanted to go in a different direction on this, I would value input from the Portuguese legal side as to the best way to do so i.e. what is necessary within their system.

6.  The British media report comes later than the Portuguese ones, and it seems to be no more than a regurgitation of the Portuguese reports.  It 'adds' that the meeting was in Lisbon.  Since the Portuguese source said it happened in the Attorney General's office, and the Attorney General's office is in Lisbon, it adds nothing.  That means any leaks were on the Portuguese side, while the Brit side simply monitored the Portuguese media.  Assuming this is correct,  Nicola Wall has scored an early victory.  Nothing leaking from London, but something leaking from Lisbon.

If this line of thought is correct, I would not expect to see a flurry of requests over the next 2-3 months, as SY chomps through the new priorities, develops the evidence, then decides how to act on it.

What is it that you are trying to do?  Although I have no quarrel with any of your posts.

Offline G-Unit

Re: MSM have been almighty quiet recently, is the investigation dead?
« Reply #71 on: March 16, 2015, 03:57:39 PM »
What is it that you are trying to do?  Although I have no quarrel with any of your posts.

I'm just suggesting that we can't assume SY has instigated this meeting. The meeting could have been suggested by either police force or been mutually agreed, we don't know. We also can't assume that both investigations are following the same paths.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Davel

Re: MSM have been almighty quiet recently, is the investigation dead?
« Reply #72 on: March 16, 2015, 04:05:59 PM »
I'm just suggesting that we can't assume SY has instigated this meeting. The meeting could have been suggested by either police force or been mutually agreed, we don't know. We also can't assume that both investigations are following the same paths.

and we cannot assume that the investigations are making no progress
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: MSM have been almighty quiet recently, is the investigation dead?
« Reply #73 on: March 16, 2015, 06:25:13 PM »
What is it that you are trying to do?  Although I have no quarrel with any of your posts.

I presume this is directed towards me.  I am perplexed by your question, but let me try my best to answer.

I read this thread today and found it interesting as it had news that I was not aware of.  I mulled it over.  I came to a somewhat different idea to that which had been expressed so far.  I sanity-checked this by discussing it over a drink and a Portuguese tart, in the Portuguese sun, with a person who is intelligent enough to assess whether I am ranting or whether I have a reasonable idea of what is going on.

After I posted on here, I noticed that the topic was then setting off on searches at ShiningInLuz.  If you check ShiningInLuz, you will find that what I did there was to post a short version of my earlier post here, and link readers to this thread.

I believe in credit where credit is due.  I did not find this news - credit to the person who did.  I did not rack up the first thread on this - I saw it here first - and I have given credit where credit is due.  Both here and at ShiningInLuz.

Bottom line.  For the reasons I have given above, I believe that Nicola Wall has re-aligned the case, has set up her team accordingly, and has made the correct moves in Portugal to get both Brits and Portuguese on side for this new charge.

For that reason, I think there is more to come.

My throw-away comment would be - smart woman!
Ooh, a snowflake!

Offline Eleanor

Re: MSM have been almighty quiet recently, is the investigation dead?
« Reply #74 on: March 16, 2015, 07:27:38 PM »
I presume this is directed towards me.  I am perplexed by your question, but let me try my best to answer.

I read this thread today and found it interesting as it had news that I was not aware of.  I mulled it over.  I came to a somewhat different idea to that which had been expressed so far.  I sanity-checked this by discussing it over a drink and a Portuguese tart, in the Portuguese sun, with a person who is intelligent enough to assess whether I am ranting or whether I have a reasonable idea of what is going on.

After I posted on here, I noticed that the topic was then setting off on searches at ShiningInLuz.  If you check ShiningInLuz, you will find that what I did there was to post a short version of my earlier post here, and link readers to this thread.

I believe in credit where credit is due.  I did not find this news - credit to the person who did.  I did not rack up the first thread on this - I saw it here first - and I have given credit where credit is due.  Both here and at ShiningInLuz.

Bottom line.  For the reasons I have given above, I believe that Nicola Wall has re-aligned the case, has set up her team accordingly, and has made the correct moves in Portugal to get both Brits and Portuguese on side for this new charge.

For that reason, I think there is more to come.

My throw-away comment would be - smart woman!

This does not answer my question.  Although you are not obliged to do so.

Is it the Moderator thing that puts you off?  Please do not allow this to happen.

I have wanted to help in your understanding because I have been at this for nearly eight years now, and thought that I might know something that you might want to know.  My desire to help is entirely genuine.  But as you wish.