Does publicly "doubting" the McCanns add to the distress of the McCann family?

[Brietta]

Couldn't find that definition but given the context how about this;

used to describe people who are not clever or well educated, and who are not interested in changing or improving their situation:
the lumpen proletariat (= unskilled working people)
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/lumpen

Not that any of them apply to me, I am clever and well-educated and I can prove it. At the age of 40 I returned to education and got 2 A Levels and one O Level in one year (All 'A's) and then a 2-1 from the University of Warwick, which is in the top 10 of UK universities. This improved my situation quite well. 

I'll stick with the Oxford definition for now, although in retrospect perhaps Chambers might have been more appropriate in the circumstances.

[Benice]

'align myself with a lumpen herd'

You already have.

A very small band who support the mccanns with abject devotion.

No doubt you are including Sarah Payne's mum, April Jones' mum and Ben Needham's mum in that 'very small band of abject devotees' - as they also support the McCanns.

But hey what do they know compared to you?

[G-Unit]

In principle, skeptics are neither closed-minded nor cynical. We are curious but cautious.
Michael Shermer

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/closed-minded.html#tXc0sLc7K12Vy6zZ.99

[Mr Gray]

In principle, skeptics are neither closed-minded nor cynical. We are curious but cautious.
Michael Shermer

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/closed-minded.html#tXc0sLc7K12Vy6zZ.99

you need to add judgemental to your list...

[Mr Gray]

You liked that one Stephen?

 

@ Brietta. Is that what you were suggesting Lyall was in danger of becoming? I have seen no bile or abuse being posted by Lyall or anyone else on here.

I  have

[Brietta]

You and Alfie keep mentioning these group when I think we all agree none of them are here, so what is the aim if it isn't to smear us with their behaviour?

You'll note that nobody keeps posting that one of the two forums supporting Madeleine's parents was shut down and erased because of its behaviour.

We don't mention it because it's not relevant to discussion here. Neither is your mentioning of facebook.

Think about that statement very carefully Lyall  "one of the two forums supporting Madeleine's parents"

Before my time but obviously not before yours and I think you may be missing the point entirely; I know of forums set up to support and promote initially the reopening of Madeleine McCann's case; if a by product of supporting Madeleine involves inclusion of Dr Gerry and Dr Kate McCann in their family campaign to do just that, please tell me where the fault lies.

Now that the objective of getting the case reopened into Madeleine McCann's disappearance has been achieved, think very carefully about the nature of complaints being made about other things, primarily the cost.

Think about the unholy glee with which the recent Star headline was received, then think about the delight and the quarters in which a closure of the case before completion would be received.

 ... and there is no intent to cause and add to the distress of the McCann family and by definition to Madeleine herself?

[stephen25000]

No doubt you are including Sarah Payne's mum, April Jones' mum and Ben Needham's mum in that 'very small band of abject devotees' - as they also support the McCanns.

But hey what do they know compared to you?

Were either of them in Portugal when Madeleine disappeared  ?


Do you have numbers as to how many people support the mccanns ?

[Miss Taken Identity]

Lyall, you seem like a reasonably sensible chap and that makes you one of a minuscule minority in my opinion.  Were I you I would not be so keen to align myself with a lumpen herd by including myself in the we and us to whom you refer.

You run the risk of being jointly and severally tarred with the same stick.

Dear commrade,
'Tis you Aflie and davel who have caused the great divide. You call people who are curious,interested but not taking Team McCanns every word as gospel- skeptics, you also imply mental illness regarding posters, using words like stupid etc and now we are a 'lumpen herd' who spew bile and do all other 'terrible things'. You get to decide the 'terrible things' due to your great self believe and own PR that what you say counts, and your opinion matters, which it doesn't.  Your self appointed diety on this forum causes much amusement in my house.

Now then about this stick you tarr us with...can we have size, width, and length...

Could I just mention at this point, how would you feel if, say, someone took a stick and tarred the McCanns with other 'low life' drunken, child neglectors?..

It's your stick you can 'tarr' whom you chose... We laugh! We really do!

[G-Unit]

Dear commrade,
'Tis you Aflie and davel who have caused the great divide. You call people who are curious,interested but not taking Team McCanns every word as gospel- skeptics, you also imply mental illness regarding posters, using words like stupid etc and now we are a 'lumpen herd' who spew bile and do all other 'terrible things'. You get to decide the 'terrible things' due to your great self believe and own PR that what you say counts, and your opinion matters, which it doesn't.  Your self appointed diety on this forum causes much amusement in my house.

Now then about this stick you tarr us with...can we have size, width, and length...

Could I just mention at this point, how would you feel if, say, someone took a stick and tarred the McCanns with other 'low life' drunken, child neglectors?..

It's your stick you can 'tarr' whom you chose... We laugh! We really do!

Wow! You tell 'em  %£&)**#

[Brietta]

Dear commrade,
'Tis you Aflie and davel who have caused the great divide. You call people who are curious,interested but not taking Team McCanns every word as gospel- skeptics, you also imply mental illness regarding posters, using words like stupid etc and now we are a 'lumpen herd' who spew bile and do all other 'terrible things'. You get to decide the 'terrible things' due to your great self believe and own PR that what you say counts, and your opinion matters, which it doesn't.  Your self appointed diety on this forum causes much amusement in my house.

Now then about this stick you tarr us with...can we have size, width, and length...

Could I just mention at this point, how would you feel if, say, someone took a stick and tarred the McCanns with other 'low life' drunken, child neglectors?..

It's your stick you can 'tarr' whom you chose... We laugh! We really do!

Funny you should raise the subject ...

The Facebook group responsible for the threat to shoot Kate McCann organised twitter attacks on the McCanns linking them to the Philpotts ... who, if you remember burned their house down with their children in it.

Here are one or two examples ... 


Viv
‏@anotherviv
#Philpott was not bothered his kids were dead,inspired by the likes of cashgrabbers #McCann he figured they could make him even more £££ now
https://twitter.com/anotherviv/status/321040108730068992

Rothley Pillowcase™
‏@RothleyPillow
@GILLYSPOT Tragic Knowing #McCann s had CASH sent willy nilly through the post, addressed to 'K8 & Gerry' > is how #Philpott s were inspired

MOM OF TWO ‏@GILLYSPOT  7 Apr 2013
@RothleyPillow Nor did Karen #Matthews care about #Shannon -whilst the poor child was lying drugged under a bed in her friends house #McCann
1 retweet 2 favourites
https://twitter.com/RothleyPillow/status/321031416618029060

Must have been some reason or other to organise themselves like that ... wonder if it might have been to add as much distress to Madeleine McCann's family as they were capable of.

[Lyall]

Tut, tut, Brietta. Smearing us with the Pillowcase brush &%&£(+

So easy to do it's meaningless

[Lyall]

The shooting 'threat' was some fool posting late at night/early in the morning likely under the influence of something, and you know it.

Some of the twitter folk are more concerning, I'll agree.

But they're not here

[slartibartfast]

Funny you should raise the subject ...

The Facebook group responsible for the threat to shoot Kate McCann organised twitter attacks on the McCanns linking them to the Philpotts ... who, if you remember burned their house down with their children in it.

Here are one or two examples ... 


Viv
‏@anotherviv
#Philpott was not bothered his kids were dead,inspired by the likes of cashgrabbers #McCann he figured they could make him even more £££ now
https://twitter.com/anotherviv/status/321040108730068992

Rothley Pillowcase™
‏@RothleyPillow
@GILLYSPOT Tragic Knowing #McCann s had CASH sent willy nilly through the post, addressed to 'K8 & Gerry' > is how #Philpott s were inspired

MOM OF TWO ‏@GILLYSPOT  7 Apr 2013
@RothleyPillow Nor did Karen #Matthews care about #Shannon -whilst the poor child was lying drugged under a bed in her friends house #McCann
1 retweet 2 favourites
https://twitter.com/RothleyPillow/status/321031416618029060

Must have been some reason or other to organise themselves like that ... wonder if it might have been to add as much distress to Madeleine McCann's family as they were capable of.

You don't think there have been copycat cases to benefit from sympathy/cash then?

[G-Unit]

I expect that publicly doubting the McCanns does add to the distress of the McCann family. For almost eight years the McCann couple have steadfastly denied playing any part in the disappearance of their daughter. They have acted to silence anyone who suggested they may have been involved.

It must be distressing for the couple and their families that despite all their efforts people still doubt their story. These people don't work in the media and a lot of them post about their doubts on the internet for all to see. Lots of them do it under pseudonyms. There are some who attack the couple personally, but there are others who discuss the evidence in an impersonal manner. These are ordinary people and are very difficult to silence. There are also bloggers writing fairly hard hitting blogs but they don't seem to be breaking any laws as they are still there.

Should all these people keep their opinions to themselves because airing them in public is likely to cause distress? The media have never considered this to be a reason not to print a story. So long as it breaks no laws and is not libelous they have 'printed and be damned'. Why should this not apply to ordinary people who now have a platform where they can express their opinions? Is it disliked because it's anonymous? Those who abuse the online doubters are also anonymous. Perhaps both sides should 'come out of the closet and use their own names?

Perhaps the question we should be asking is why people began to have doubts and why they still have them  almost eight years on?

[Brietta]

Tut, tut, Brietta. Smearing us with the Pillowcase brush &%&£(+

So easy to do it's meaningless

Maybe the whitewash brush is more in style for you, Lyall, but in my book people who deliberately plot to cause distress to the family of a missing child have lost the plot somewhere down the line.

I am afraid they were and are far more in your camp than in mine; obviously they don't think it is "meaningless" or why do it and continue to do it by sending alerts to comment on particular newspaper articles and Crime Watch programmes? ... and that is not quite the point anyway, it is the fact they do it at all - have been doing it for nearly eight years now - have consistently attacked one family.

IMO you demean yourself by attempting to defend such activities.