Author Topic: The ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.  (Read 29489 times)

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Offline G-Unit

There is one person who could possibly back up Kate's story. She passed the apartment at 10pm, noticed that Mrs Fenn had a light on and noticed the small grey car near Madeleine's window. The shutters weren't mentioned, pity the PJ didn't ask her.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIA-M-M-DE-SILVA.htm


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« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 04:42:52 PM by John »
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Offline Brietta

Re: The ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2015, 09:52:20 AM »
There is one person who could possibly back up Kate's story. She passed the apartment at 10pm, noticed that Mrs Fenn had a light on and noticed the small grey car near Madeleine's window. The shutters weren't mentioned, pity the PJ didn't ask her.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIA-M-M-DE-SILVA.htm

What on earth would be the point of the 'backing up' of Dr McCann's story?  Although pivotal to the understanding of events all witness statements are now the stuff of history and have been forensically analysed as part of the review which allowed the re-opening of Madeleine's case.

I think that one of the major problems the 'doubters' may have with that is part and parcel of why their vitriol has continued against the McCann's.
The rest of the world has cottoned on to the fact that Madeleine McCann's parents are not the focus of police interest; they still have to come to terms with that fact and prefer denial.

The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Anna

Re: The ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2015, 10:35:09 AM »
There is one person who could possibly back up Kate's story. She passed the apartment at 10pm, noticed that Mrs Fenn had a light on and noticed the small grey car near Madeleine's window. The shutters weren't mentioned, pity the PJ didn't ask her.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIA-M-M-DE-SILVA.htm


States that she looked at the exit of the apartment and that from the flat above the McCanns, she saw light, and also in from of the apartment, but she could not define, concretely, where she saw the light when she passed the McCann apartment;
. Next to the tree, she did not detect any movement of people or vehicles, and nothing struck her as abnormal in that zone that would have raised her suspicions;
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
So this was before the alert, as it was quiet and no movement around 5A. She detected a light  above and in of from 5A??….(Open shutter with light from lounge lamp, or a torch?) Surely there would be no light if the shutters were closed?
Alert must have been after 10pm as in statements as there was no movement around.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Brietta

Re: The ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2015, 10:48:14 AM »

States that she looked at the exit of the apartment and that from the flat above the McCanns, she saw light, and also in from of the apartment, but she could not define, concretely, where she saw the light when she passed the McCann apartment;
. Next to the tree, she did not detect any movement of people or vehicles, and nothing struck her as abnormal in that zone that would have raised her suspicions;
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
So this was before the alert, as it was quiet and no movement around 5A. She detected a light  above and in of from 5A??….(Open shutter with light from lounge lamp, or a torch?) Surely there would be no light if the shutters were closed?
Alert must have been after 10pm as in statements as there was no movement around.

If the witness saw a light from the McCann apartment it could only have been from the open wooden door or the window where the shutters were open.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Anna

Re: The ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2015, 10:54:46 AM »
If the witness saw a light from the McCann apartment it could only have been from the open wooden door or the window where the shutters were open.

My thoughts exactly
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline G-Unit

Re: The ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2015, 11:06:26 AM »
What on earth would be the point of the 'backing up' of Dr McCann's story?  Although pivotal to the understanding of events all witness statements are now the stuff of history and have been forensically analysed as part of the review which allowed the re-opening of Madeleine's case.

I think that one of the major problems the 'doubters' may have with that is part and parcel of why their vitriol has continued against the McCann's.
The rest of the world has cottoned on to the fact that Madeleine McCann's parents are not the focus of police interest; they still have to come to terms with that fact and prefer denial.

I thought you would welcome the possibility of an independent sighting of the open shutters and fluttering curtains? No? Perhaps she didn't mention them because they weren't open, who knows? Not me and not you.  Operation Grange said they weren't looking at the parents at a certain point in time. If that changed, would they tell us? I don't expect they would. I have no information about the Portuguese investigation except that it's been reopened. Have you? Please note no bitter criticism or malice.
Accept nothing
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Offline Brietta

Re: The ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2015, 11:12:01 AM »
I thought you would welcome the possibility of an independent sighting of the open shutters and fluttering curtains? No? Perhaps she didn't mention them because they weren't open, who knows? Not me and not you.  Operation Grange said they weren't looking at the parents at a certain point in time. If that changed, would they tell us? I don't expect they would. I have no information about the Portuguese investigation except that it's been reopened. Have you? Please note no bitter criticism or malice.

If there was a light emanating from the McCann apartment as seen by the witness, who on earth would require an open window for access or egress ... they could just have walked through the hole in the wall ... because the light must have emanated from somewhere.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline G-Unit

Re: The ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2015, 11:48:04 AM »
If there was a light emanating from the McCann apartment as seen by the witness, who on earth would require an open window for access or egress ... they could just have walked through the hole in the wall ... because the light must have emanated from somewhere.

Were the shutters completely closed? when they are do they shut out all light? I don't know.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Brietta

Re: The ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2015, 12:06:52 PM »
Were the shutters completely closed? when they are do they shut out all light? I don't know.

They do not appear to be like venetian blinds, they are either raised or closed.  When closed the small ventilation holes would let light through but the curtains would block that ... and I doubt it would be particularly noticeable to a person passing in a vehicle.
IMO if she saw a light it was from the open door or a raised shutter with the curtain either pulled or blown back.

I'm sure Shining would know offhand what can be seen when these shutters are down.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2015, 12:20:32 PM »
Were the shutters completely closed? when they are do they shut out all light? I don't know.

No they weren't completely shut so light could get in.

"The outside blinds were closed with only two or three slats open." (GM 10 May)
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Anna

Re: The ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2015, 02:24:35 PM »
No they weren't completely shut so light could get in.

"The outside blinds were closed with only two or three slats open." (GM 10 May)

The curtains were closed
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carana

Re: The ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2015, 03:15:55 PM »
The translation seems a bit wonky to me, but I'm not certain what the original means either:

Refere que reparou ao sair do apartamento que no andar acima do ocupado pelos McCann viu luz, e mesmo se verificando no frente do prédio, porém não consegue definir, em concreto onde viu luz aquando da passagem na frente do prédio dos McCann.

It seems to mean that when she left her flat, she could a light in the flat above the McCanns' and either did see or thinks she saw (it says something about checking, but I don't see why she would have been checking) a light at the front of the McCanns' building but wasn't sure where it came from. (Prédio means building, apparently, not apartment.)

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2015, 03:35:55 PM »
The curtains were closed

I'm talking about the shutters/blinds behind the curtains. The curtains were closed when Matt was there but this is how Kate found them.

"She noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open, while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did." (KM 4 May)

And this is what happened next. Not a mention of looking out of the window or going into the car park to see if Maddy was close by. No this is what happened after finding a window open and her daughter gone.

"Faced with this situation,she verified that the twins were in their respective beds, unlike Madeleine, who had disappeared. The cover was pulled back and the toys were on the pillow as usual. After searching the whole apartment thoroughly, the interviewee went back, scared and shocked, to the restaurant, to alert her husband and the others to the disappearance." (KM 4 May)
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 03:41:16 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Anna

Re: The ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2015, 03:45:49 PM »
I'm talking about the shutters/blinds behind the curtains. The curtains were closed when Matt was there but this is how Kate found them.

"She noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open, while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did." (KM 4 May)

And this is what happened next. Not a mention of looking out of the window or going into the car park to see if Maddy was close by. No this is what happened after finding a window open and her daughter gone.

"Faced with this situation,she verified that the twins were in their respective beds, unlike Madeleine, who had disappeared. The cover was pulled back and the toys were on the pillow as usual. After searching the whole apartment thoroughly, the interviewee went back, scared and shocked, to the restaurant, to alert her husband and the others to the disappearance." (KM 4 May)

I think, Pat, that we were discussing, how light could be seen from outside, coming from the area of 5A. If the curtains and blinds were closed
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2015, 05:48:44 PM »
I think, Pat, that we were discussing, how light could be seen from outside, coming from the area of 5A. If the curtains and blinds were closed

You can see the light on the shutters.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 05:52:05 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.