The Quality of Witnesses in the Case.

[faithlilly]

Any word, yet, on who commented on Gerry's absence from the restaurant at the point of Kate's alert

(if, indeed, he wasn't there)?

An extra ordinary omission that no one should comment (if he wasn't there).

He was at the table at 10.13 when, according to him, Kate raised the alarm just not the minutes before.

[DCI]

He also says;

When asked, he says that he does not remember whether the parents arrived together or whether they were the first or last to arrive at the table.
When asked, he says that on 3rd May he only remembers that one guest from the table left for about 10 minutes, given that when he was about to serve the respective plate he was told to hold the food back for a few minutes, and that it was about 15 minutes before the guest returned, at about 21.45.
When asked, he says that he does not remember anyone having been absent from the table for a few instants.
Dinner would end at about 21.45, a few minutes later the witness looked at the table and saw that there was nobody there and one of his colleagues told them that all the guests had left the table in a hurry.
The witness was asked to keep Russell?s meal warm. After a certain amount of time (he is not able to be exact), he was asked to serve Russell, who had returned to the table. He remembers that the rest of the group had practically finished their main courses. Asked if he remembers having seen all the elements of the group at this time, he cannot remember exactly. He also cannot state the length of time Russell was away from the table. The witness states that he had already served all the clients of the bar and for this reason, believes that Russell was away for some time.

Oh dear another contradictory statement!


Clarifies that on that night when he took the dinner orders, the entire group was seated. He remembers that there were nine adults? four men and five women. He did not notice any strange behaviour on their part.


When asked, he says that he remembers that it was usual during dinner for one or two members of the group to leave the table for about 10 or 15 minutes and given the fact that on various occasions he saw walkie talkies on the table, he supposed that they went to check on their children who were in their respective rooms.

[DCI]

I can see no nets on 3rd May 2007;

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_16_small1.jpg

Funny that. I do, pushed back.

[G-Unit]

Correct! I didn't find the right pic. 

[pathfinder73]

Pamela Fenn's statement is dated 20 Aug 2007.  How does one verify a crying incident from 1 May 2007 nearly 4 months later?

This aspect was followed up in Rachael Oldfield's rog statement.  She was in 5B looking after a sick child on 1 May 2007.  Did she hear crying, she was asked.  Her reply was that that she had gone to bed around 9 PM and did not hear crying.

You can still cross-check on this story today.  Kate McCann's phone records show that she was busy answering her phone on 1 May 2007, after leaving the Tapas, and somewhat earlier than the crying incident, so if Madeleine cried that night for 75 mins, Kate is one heartless bitch.

Tweak Mrs Fenn's statement to 2nd May 2007, and everything fits.  Kate's book says Madeleine put it as that night.  I believe some of the other rogs cover Madeleine's comment re crying on 2nd May.  And 2nd May was the stop-out night, as attested by all and sundry. (OK by quite a few people!)  The phone records support this (but do not prove it).

Let me see - what are the options?

Pamela Fenn was talking tosh.  That does not seem right as statements and Kate's book alike refer to a crying incident.

It happened, and it happened on 1st May. Kate's phone record disagrees.  Rachael Oldfield might have slept well.  Mrs Fenn was right.  So Kate is cruel beyond belief.

It happened, but on 2 May.  So Pamela Fenn was one day out 4 months later.  The phone records match.  There was no sick child right next to 5A.  The overall timings match the T9 statements, and the waiters serving them.  And Kate has Madeleine saying it the next morning.  (By the way, the Pamela Fenn info surfaced quite some time before her statement date.)

Note that if Madeleine cried for an extended period, whether it was 1st May, or 2nd May, then it does not paint the McCanns as caring parents running frequent checks. 

In fact, the whole 'frequent checks' reported by the T9 simply falls over.  How can you visit 5B, frequently, and not hear kids in 5A crying?

Having dug that lot out of the files, let me return to my original question.  How would the PJ have verified that in Aug 2007?  I can guess at it, but neither the phone records, Mrs Fenn's statement, Kate's book, or the rog statements prove what happened.

For that, I would need an independent witness who heard the crying, remembers the date, remembers the length of crying, and can locate it to 5A or nearby.  Or one who can, unequivocally, trash the crying incident.

The reality is we have real life witnesses.  And quite a lot of obfuscation on top.

Please get your facts right. Rachel stayed in on Wed 2nd not Tue when Pamela Fenn heard crying below her. Rachel didn't hear Maddy and Seany crying that night and her room was next door to the kids room.

[ferryman]

He was at the table at 10.13 when, according to him, Kate raised the alarm just not the minutes before.

So, the Smith sighting at just about 10.00 (with the man the Smiths saw headed for the beach) and Kate's alert, just about the same time with Gerry at the table.

Seems as if Joao Carlos called it just about right to say in his report that Gerry was in the restaurant at the time of the Smith sighting. 

— Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. The group headed, on foot, for their apartment.
— Questioned, she responds that she knows the time that they left because her father and her brother decided to leave early that night. There were two reasons for this: one was the fact that her sister-in-law was not feeling very well and the other was because her brother, sister-in-law, nephew and son of her sister-in-law finished their holiday the next day and had to catch the morning flight returning to Ireland.
— Upon leaving the bar, they turned right and headed along the road for 40/50 metres. At this point, they again turned to the right and ascended a small street with stairs that give access to Rua 25 de Abril. As they were a large group (four adults and five children) they travelled apart from each other along the street with some more to the front and the others more behind. She does not remember how they were divided [who was where].
— The deponent remembers that upon reaching the top of the stairs, she looked to her left and saw a man (1) with a female child (2) in his arms, walking along the pavement of Rua 25 de Abril. He was walking in her direction at a distance of, give or take, two metres.

Aofie Smith

[pathfinder73]

So, the Smith sighting at just about 10.00 (with the man the Smiths saw headed for the beach) and Kate's alert, just about the same time with Gerry at the table.

Seems as if Joao Carlos called it just about right to say in his report that Gerry was in the restaurant at the time of the Smith sighting.

Where was Maddy at 9:55? In the apartment or somewhere else? The alarm was raised before 10 going from the waiter who served them the steak and his time is the same as Russell's for getting back to the table. Two witnesses saying the same time 9:45. That is good timeline evidence in my book.

[ferryman]

Where was Maddy at 9:55? In the apartment or somewhere else? The alarm was raised before 10 going from the waiter who served them the steak and his time is the same as Russell's for getting back to the table. Two witnesses saying the same time 9:45. That is good timeline evidence in my book.

Kate's alert was around 10.00pm, just about the time of the Smith sighting.

Gerry was in the restaurant at the time of the Smith sighting, just as stated by Joao Carlos in his final report for the PJ

[faithlilly]

So, the Smith sighting at just about 10.00 (with the man the Smiths saw headed for the beach) and Kate's alert, just about the same time with Gerry at the table.

Seems as if Joao Carlos called it just about right to say in his report that Gerry was in the restaurant at the time of the Smith sighting. 

— Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. The group headed, on foot, for their apartment.
— Questioned, she responds that she knows the time that they left because her father and her brother decided to leave early that night. There were two reasons for this: one was the fact that her sister-in-law was not feeling very well and the other was because her brother, sister-in-law, nephew and son of her sister-in-law finished their holiday the next day and had to catch the morning flight returning to Ireland.
— Upon leaving the bar, they turned right and headed along the road for 40/50 metres. At this point, they again turned to the right and ascended a small street with stairs that give access to Rua 25 de Abril. As they were a large group (four adults and five children) they travelled apart from each other along the street with some more to the front and the others more behind. She does not remember how they were divided [who was where].
— The deponent remembers that upon reaching the top of the stairs, she looked to her left and saw a man (1) with a female child (2) in his arms, walking along the pavement of Rua 25 de Abril. He was walking in her direction at a distance of, give or take, two metres.

Aofie Smith

Being two or three minutes out gives Gerry McCann, by his own estimates, at least 15 minutes from the time he was seen by the Smiths to conceal Madeleine's body and be back at the tapas bar for 10.13, easily done and as Aofie nor anyone else in the group saw the direction in which the individual went his final destination is merely speculation.

[ferryman]

Keep wriggling, Faith.

[faithlilly]

Kate's alert was around 10.00pm, just about the time of the Smith sighting.

Gerry was in the restaurant at the time of the Smith sighting, just as stated by Joao Carlos in his final report for the PJ

At least 7 friends alibied him. How was Carlos supposed to prove otherwise ?

[pathfinder73]

Kate's alert was around 10.00pm, just about the time of the Smith sighting.

Gerry was in the restaurant at the time of the Smith sighting, just as stated by Joao Carlos in his final report for the PJ

Matt said she left at 9:50 and he had a watch. Dianne said Russell only had a few bites of his thin steak when Kate came running. Why would Matt say 9:50 if it was 10pm? Kate wasn't gone long according to the others except for one who said 10 minutes.

p.s. I suspect Matt was exact in his 10 May statement on times because he was accused of abducting Maddy by the PJ on his check.

[faithlilly]

Keep wriggling, Faith.

Prove me wrong then ferryman.

[ferryman]

Prove me wrong then ferryman.

I have.

[ferryman]

Matt said she left at 9:50 and he had a watch. Dianne said Russell only had a few bites of his thin steak when Kate came running. Why would Matt say 9:50 if it was 10pm? Kate wasn't gone long according to the others except for one who said 10 minutes.

Who remembers times with absolute precision when you're on holiday?

The ball-park figures indicate accurately enough that Gerry was in the restaurant at the time of Kate's alert.

Remind me, again, of who commented on Gerry's absence from the table if he wasn't there at the time of Kate's alert.