Author Topic: On Human Behaviour, Morality and Criminality  (Read 32075 times)

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OxfordBloo

  • Guest
Re: On Human Behaviour, Morality and Criminality
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2015, 07:51:59 AM »
Who is discussing people's personal lives? Who doesn't like who?

You must be joking. The McCanns have had their personal lives ripped apart in public by various groups of organised harassers for eight years.

OxfordBloo

  • Guest
Re: On Human Behaviour, Morality and Criminality
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2015, 07:54:48 AM »
I am copying a post I made on another thread that addresses my feelings about this subject:

I am biased in favour of justice, fairness and privacy.

People generally despised the tapping of the mobile phone of the girl who disappeared. This was because doing so was offensive to justice (interfering with the course of a case) , fairness (what are the limits of a free press) and privacy (what rights do we have to not be interfered with by the state or other citizens.

There is a right to free speech and this probably should apply to a book or press article more than it does in the UK currently. And people should certainly be free to hold an opinion.

But this has to be limited in many ways. For instance Mary Bell orders for various serious criminals at risk in the community, national security, safety, libel and so on.

Se have a new situation caused by the internet that approaches close to the basis for these limits on free speech. Gossip when limited to the pub was tolerable, but when has an organised rabble egging people on to speech and a ton on a public media it becomes a probable moral and possible legal question.

The law recognises that people may have an opinion but they may not for instance express that publicly by demonstrating outside an opponent's house or sending them direct communications. I would argue that similar actions by people on organised sites in public, accessible to all is as objectionable as demonstrating outside someone's house or telephoning or emailing them. I can see an argument to apply the same restrictions on internet behaviour as we do on behaviour in the real world and to make the targeting of individuals on message boards as a case of harassment. The simple answer is that such discussions should be private to the participants and not open to the public, nor gathered by Google bots.

At present we allow a group of angry frustrated and deluded people to meet in private to cast aspersions on individuals. We do not let these people demonstrate in the residential area where the target lives. I would have little objection if there were the same limits put on harassment by social media that we place on harassment in the real world.

Sites that allow groups to post harassment would be required to be unavailable to non-members and not searchable. Merely factual posting would be a defence but speculation and accusation would be unlawful.

As more and more cases like attacks on rape victims (the recent footballer case), Jon Venables, Cliff Richard, Sharon Shoesmith, and a whole variety of other victims.

The press would still be free, factual discussion would still be free, but joint behaviour amounting to harassment would not be protected.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 05:30:25 PM by Admin »

Offline mercury

Re: On Human Behaviour, Morality and Criminality
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2015, 08:50:24 AM »
Can you point me in the direction of any comments of any kind from either of the McCanns in connection with the "dossier" or Brenda Leyland?   

No I cant, that was my point. But IIRC Gerry Mccann was asked about the death of Brenda Leyland at some interview and glossed over it, saying he wasnt there to takk about trolls. Disgraceful. Bye for now.

Offline Brietta

Re: On Human Behaviour, Morality and Criminality
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2015, 09:10:38 AM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/9226205/Madeleine-McCann-unanswered-questions.html

Thank you JP, I hadn't read that article which certainly lays out the case in detail and is worth a read ... however the required link has already been posted although studiously ignored ... and I am sure had there been real concerns a quick Google would have resolved any doubts.
Just a bit of wumming being evidenced. 

**snip
British detectives have expressed dismay over flaws in the Portuguese police’s investigation, in which dozens of people were allowed to trample over the crime scene and evidence was found to be contaminated with cigarette ash.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/9226205/Madeleine-McCann-unanswered-questions.html
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

OxfordBloo

  • Guest
Re: On Human Behaviour, Morality and Criminality
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2015, 09:12:11 AM »
No I cant, that was my point. But IIRC Gerry Mccann was asked about the death of Brenda Leyland at some interview and glossed over it, saying he wasnt there to takk about trolls. Disgraceful. Bye for now.

Brenda Leyland used the social media to abuse and denigrate the McCanns. She died of shame by her own hand. Gerry's response seems quite rational- why should he waste time on someone who abused him.

OxfordBloo

  • Guest
Re: On Human Behaviour, Morality and Criminality
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2015, 10:25:45 AM »
This is an example of crossing the line from legal comment to immoral comment to possibly criminally actionable as harassment.

Gerry's father is very ill. The Gerry and Kate are said to be with him and to have sent a message to the Rothley church to say that they cannot attend the eighth anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-unable-attend-5632585
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 05:32:15 PM by Admin »

Offline Montclair

Re: On Human Behaviour, Morality and Criminality
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2015, 10:32:24 AM »
I'm sorry but the McCanns have used the media as well as spokesmen, friends and family to get out their story and to criticise anyone who questions them, including policemen, so they just have to take the good with the bad. Everyone has the right to disagree and express their opinions. There is no law that says we have like those people.

You seem to feel free to write nasty remarks about Gonçalo Amaral because you don't like him, but we,in your eyes, are not allowed to say anything against your beloved couple.

OxfordBloo

  • Guest
Re: On Human Behaviour, Morality and Criminality
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2015, 10:44:35 AM »
I'm sorry but the McCanns have used the media as well as spokesmen, friends and family to get out their story and to criticise anyone who questions them, including policemen, so they just have to take the good with the bad. Everyone has the right to disagree and express their opinions. There is no law that says we have like those people.

You seem to feel free to write nasty remarks about Gonçalo Amaral because you don't like him, but we,in your eyes, are not allowed to say anything against your beloved couple.

That is incorrect under English law. The rights of people regarding the press are different according to set criteria. Those who earn their living in the public eye have less protection than private citizens. Merely being the objects of interest (like the McCanns, Christopher Jeffries, the persons arrested in the missing woman case etc.) does not result in loss of private status. The McCanns have te same right to privacy as you and I.

The other exception to private privilege is people acting on behalf of the state. This even goes for application of libel laws where public servants have reduced rights to sue for libel if they were acting in their formal role- this is seen as necessary to hold state power to account.

I have written no personal insults about Amaral, but have merely pointed out the facts about him


« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 05:33:11 PM by Admin »

Offline John

Re: On Human Behaviour, Morality and Criminality
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2015, 10:46:51 AM »
Brenda Leyland used the social media to abuse and denigrate the McCanns. She died of shame by her own hand. Gerry's response seems quite rational- why should he waste time on someone who abused him.

She was the the target of a cheapskate reporter who plastered her face all over international media on the false premise that what she had done would attract criminal charges.  Maybe Sky should have made Brunt their entertainment correspondent instead of crime?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

OxfordBloo

  • Guest
Re: On Human Behaviour, Morality and Criminality
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2015, 10:53:18 AM »
She was the the target of a cheapskate reporter who plastered her face all over international media on the false premise that what she had done would attract criminal charges.

Thank you for your opinion.

More factually she was approached by a senior router totally within the guidelines for dealing with such questions. She was approached in a public place and asked questions. The press are not only interested in criminal behaviour, but also in behaviour of non-criminal nature. In addition to what we saw on camera, she agreed to a deeper interview with the reporter of her own free will.

The TV and press coverage was totally legal and lawful.

She apparently found it shameful a d seems to have died by her own band.

No reporter or media has been found to have acted contrary to their guidelines. No police investigation has been made into any crime. No criticism arose at the inquest.

Those are the facts.

Offline Brietta

Re: On Human Behaviour, Morality and Criminality
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2015, 11:09:32 AM »
I'm sorry but the McCanns have used the media as well as spokesmen, friends and family to get out their story and to criticise anyone who questions them, including policemen, so they just have to take the good with the bad. Everyone has the right to disagree and express their opinions. There is no law that says we have like those people.

You seem to feel free to write nasty remarks about Gonçalo Amaral because you don't like him, but we,in your eyes, are not allowed to say anything against your beloved couple.

The McCanns have used the media to publicise Madeleine McCann in that they have been phenomenally successful the downside has been the unleashing of unpleasantness such as the denial of the legitimate concerns regarding an aged parent who has been ill for many years.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: On Human Behaviour, Morality and Criminality
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2015, 11:14:44 AM »
The McCanns have used the media to publicise Madeleine McCann in that they have been phenomenally successful the downside has been the unleashing of unpleasantness such as the denial of the legitimate concerns regarding an aged parent who has been ill for many years.

Phonemically successful ???

In what respect exactly ?

Madeleine's fate remains unknown, as is the cause of her disappearance.

OxfordBloo

  • Guest
Re: On Human Behaviour, Morality and Criminality
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2015, 11:19:49 AM »
Phonemically successful ???

In what respect exactly ?

Madeleine's fate remains unknown, as is the cause of her disappearance.

It is there in simple English.

The McCanns have been phenomenally successful at utilising the media.

Unfortunately it has not found Madeleine but all the same gained publicity that may have helped.


stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: On Human Behaviour, Morality and Criminality
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2015, 11:26:49 AM »
It is there in simple English.

The McCanns have been phenomenally successful at utilising the media.

Unfortunately it has not found Madeleine but all the same gained publicity that may have helped.

In actuality it has been totally irrelevant.

What is apparent is that the majority of people are not interested, and the majority of those that do pay attention to the case  are  saying the investigation  is a waste of tax payers money.

Offline slartibartfast

Re: On Human Behaviour, Morality and Criminality
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2015, 11:50:37 AM »
It is there in simple English.

The McCanns have been phenomenally successful at utilising the media.

Unfortunately it has not found Madeleine but all the same gained publicity that may have helped.

Yes, putting themselves in the public eye.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.