Author Topic: I find it odd that the door was left open so a child barely 4 could roam.  (Read 207915 times)

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Offline Benice

Are these comments from Silvia Batista of any worth ?

They seem to come from a series of interviews with MW staff..........link below.

*snip*

"The Technical Services Director of the Ocean Club resort, Silvia Batista, affirmed that the same night on which Madeleine disappeared, she in person offered child-minding services "because the hotel is responsible for its clients' children, but they rejected that". Madeleine was seen for the last time on the 3rd of May when she was sleeping next to her siblings in a rented room in a hotel in Praia da Luz, in the south of Portugal. The parents of the little girl are being questioned for having left her alone in that room in order to go to eat with some friends.

 

According to the director of the hotel, "every month registries of robberies in the area are kept, and we therefore advise the service of a child-minder", but even knowing this, Maddie's parents did not accept it. Batista confirmed in an interview with the website Globo.com that the hotel has been working from the start with the Police to find the little girl. The director added that the room used by the McCann family was closed the first two months, then was opened for 15 days, but was then closed once again. Also, the director of the resort pointed out that in the area there are "many inquisitive people, but they do not disrupt the routine of the place.

 "We did not bear the blame for the disappearance of the little girl, it couldn't be said whose fault it was, but certainly not ours", assured the director and indicated that "the parents of the girl that night were very unconcerned", and there was no reason they should not have requested the service of a child-minder. "


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id53.html

I would have thought the Welcome meeting was where Baby sitting services etc were offered.  I've never seen anything in the files to denote that holidaymakers were told about burglaries at that meeting.    I presume that is where such info would be imparted.

No way would I allow what are basically complete strangers to spend hours alone in my apartment with my children.    It wouldn't matter what their job was or how nice they seemed.

I thought 3 or 4 families stayed in 5A after 4th May and before the dogs went in at the end of July?  Surely that would take up more than 15 days?    (from memory so could be wrong) 



The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Montclair

I would have thought the Welcome meeting was where Baby sitting services etc were offered.  I've never seen anything in the files to denote that holidaymakers were told about burglaries at that meeting.    I presume that is where such info would be imparted.

No way would I allow what are basically complete strangers to spend hours alone in my apartment with my children.    It wouldn't matter what their job was or how nice they seemed.

I thought 3 or 4 families stayed in 5A after 4th May and before the dogs went in at the end of July?  Surely that would take up more than 15 days?    (from memory so could be wrong)

No way will any of the McCann supporters accept that the parents ever did anything wrong! These complete strangers would have been the same girls who worked in the creche where the children were left all day.

Offline Eleanor

No way will any of the McCann supporters accept that the parents ever did anything wrong! These complete strangers would have been the same girls who worked in the creche where the children were left all day.

Okay.  But let's not have it that The McCanns were warned, or offered a personal baby sitting service.
This is simply not true.

Offline sadie

OK let's just use the word unsecured.
Do you seriously believe that a four year old would yell loudly enough to be heard through a screen and the general hubbub of a restaurant?
Was there an unimpeded line of sight from the table to the balcony? Would anyone be looking permanently in that direction even if they could see? That seems to have been debated at length on here with no clear result.
I don't believe the density of traffic is relevant. How many vehicles do you need to bowl a child over.
So in your book it is OK to leave a toddler unattended for a few hours in an unsecured apartment with direct access to a public thoroughfare in unfamiliar foreign surroundings?
No-one could get into the front door without a key. It was locked.

At the rear, there was a clear view of the patio area, which was illuminated by the steet lamp immediately opposite ...  and the patio window was overlooked by the tapas group at about 50 metres away.


I am confident that Madeleine could and would have been heard by her family had she yelled.  Our garden was 50 metres long and we always heard our kids when they called.  We were adjacent to the main road, so there was a constant noise.


Now Madeleine is not a quiet child; rather the reverse.  My kids were not as noisy.  A mother is tuned into the cry of her own children.  They would have heard her, almost without doubt. 


Also if she exited that way, as she pulled the curtain back, the interior light would have shone out. and cast a glow over the fencing and over her.

Offline Benice

No way will any of the McCann supporters accept that the parents ever did anything wrong! These complete strangers would have been the same girls who worked in the creche where the children were left all day.

I would regard anyone who I'd only met once or twice for a few minutes as a stranger.   The fact that the girls worked in the creche would not be enough for me.  Nursery workers have been arrested for abusing the children in their care.  Vanessa George?

As regard the McCanns doing anything wrong.   IMO they made an error of judgement mainly because they were lulled into a false sense of security -  but I don't feel the need to persecute them for it for the rest of their lives.    I've made mistakes myself in my time as a parent - but fortunately none of them ended in tragedy.   I consider myself one of the lucky ones.



 
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Montclair

Okay.  But let's not have it that The McCanns were warned, or offered a personal baby sitting service.
This is simply not true.

So you're saying that Silvia Batista was lying in her statement?

Offline Alice Purjorick

No-one could get into the front door without a key. It was locked.

At the rear, there was a clear view of the patio area, which was illuminated by the steet lamp immediately opposite ...  and the patio window was overlooked by the tapas group at about 50 metres away.


I am confident that Madeleine could and would have been heard by her family had she yelled.  Our garden was 50 metres long and we always heard our kids when they called.  We were adjacent to the main road, so there was a constant noise.


Now Madeleine is not a quiet child; rather the reverse.  My kids were not as noisy.  A mother is tuned into the cry of her own children.  They would have heard her, almost without doubt. 


Also if she exited that way, as she pulled the curtain back, the interior light would have shone out. and cast a glow over the fencing and over her.


One unsecured door will be enough.
Whether your garden is 50 metres long and what your kids do/did is hardly relevant.
Fundamentally in your book leaving a toddler in an unsecured apartment in a foreign land for repeated periods of time when /where said toddler could access a public thoroughfare, is a good idea ?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

stephen25000

  • Guest
Okay.  But let's not have it that The McCanns were warned, or offered a personal baby sitting service.
This is simply not true.

'Leaving Madeleine with a babysitter who none of them knew would have been  'unwise', Kate McCann declares in her book.
Explaining why they did not make use of the babysitting service offered by the Ocean Club, she said the couple never even thought about it.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1384828/Kate-McCann-fears-daughter-Madeleine-tried-warn-intruder.html#ixzz3b56FYEy6
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


Yet as Montclair has rightly pointed out, the mccanns left their children with strangers during the daytime.

Offline sadie


So they would have seen the abductor? all that looking and watching! they were only, ONLY too far away they never heard Maddie crying the previous night.            Beams of light lol

Maybe, just maybe, Maddie opened the shutters and window  herself and went out that way, a bit of an adventure if you like...

But no, the truth is the children were left unattended ,UNSEEN by the drinking parents from their table. And the checking was  not physical it was 'listening'  if they were so close to the children why did they have to leave the table at all? can't have it both ways now can you.
Wake up at the back Mistaken.

Surely you realise by now that the abductor almost certainly came in via the FRONT door.  Did you not realise that the only non locked door was at the illuminated rear and the Tapas group overlooked it from only 50 metres away?


Even Gonzalo realised that no-one would enter by the rear patio door and HE said so when he was trying (very foolishly imo) to prove that no abductor could have gone in.


Seems he conveniently forgot that keys open doors without trace ... and that several apartments in the same and adjoining blocks had been entered by burglars in the preceding few weeks via front doors that they unlocked.


Also he seems to have "overlooked" the fact that 5A front door was recessed deeply and virtually pitch black.  And in a place where NO-BODY passed by. 


It was *  HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT  * .


Also, it seems, that the front door light was broken.   



Now how convenient is that for an abductor?


What he should have been doing is investigating how people got hold of the keys.  But he chose not to.  I wonder why?


stephen25000

  • Guest
Wake up at the back Mistaken.

Surely you realise by now that the abductor almost certainly came in via the FRONT door.  Did you not realise that the only non locked door was at the illuminated rear and the Tapas group overlooked it from only 50 metres away?


Even Gonzalo realised that no-one would enter by the rear patio door and HE said so when he was trying (very foolishly imo) to prove that no abductor could have gone in.


Seems he conveniently forgot that keys open doors without trace ... and that several apartments in the same and adjoining blocks had been entered by burglars in the preceding few weeks via front doors that they unlocked.


Also he seems to have "overlooked" the fact that 5A front door was recessed deeply and virtually pitch black.  And in a place where NO-BODY passed by. 


It was *  HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT  * .


Also, it seems, that the front door light was broken.   



Now how convenient is that for an abductor?


What he should have been doing is investigating how people got hold of the keys.  But he chose not to.  I wonder why?

You do know sadie, for the umpteenth time, that  there is no quantitative evidence that an abduction took place ?

Offline Benice

So you're saying that Silvia Batista was lying in her statement?

Where does she say she personally offered a babysitting service to the McCanns on the 3rd May in her witness statements please?

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

stephen25000

  • Guest
Where does she say she personally offered a babysitting service to the McCanns on the 3rd May in her witness statements please?

Have a good read.

Offline sadie

One unsecured door will be enough.
Whether your garden is 50 metres long and what your kids do/did is hardly relevant.
Fundamentally in your book leaving a toddler in an unsecured apartment in a foreign land for repeated periods of time when /where said toddler could access a public thoroughfare, is a good idea ?
Madeleine would no more have gone down that long walled path on her own than fly in the air.  Virtually pitch black and unable to see over the wall. 

And we dont know if she could have managed the opening of the front door, do we?


BTW, Alice, where were Madeleines finger prints on the door?  Do you think thta she closed it after her as well?



Come on, we all know that you are a joker ....  but this is one joke too far. 8)-)))

Offline sadie

Have a good read.
It neither says that Sylvia Baptiste spoke to The Mccanns personally ... nor that she offered them a baby sitting service.

Please dont make it up Stephen.



Personally I would never trust a relative stranger to have looked after my children in the privacy of my apartment.  In a creche with others working there and people / parents dropping in, then i would risk it.

Offline Anna

So you're saying that Silvia Batista was lying in her statement?

Where does it say anything about being offered a babysitter on that night? I apologize if I missed it, but have searched all 3 statements.

Translated by Astro:

Vol VIII

Pages 1975 - 1977

Witness Statement

Silvia Batista

2007 - 07 - 26

“Concerning the matter of the process, the witness said:

That she has given statements for several times within the process, and remembers the contents of what she stated before, therefore reproducing the contents of the previous statements into this statement.

The deponent offers another statement because with the passage of time, since Madeleine’s disappearance, she has remembered some details of the facts that she witnessed, which she considers of some interest to the investigation.

Like she said before, she was alerted to Madeleine’s disappearance between 10.30 and 11 p.m. She was at home and was informed about the event through a telephone call. She immediately went to the Ocean Club, where she arrived only minutes before the GNR officers. When she arrived at the resort, she went immediately to apartment 5A, where she met several persons both on the inside and on the outside of the apartment. She went into the apartment but left it right away without speaking to anyone, because she was informed that the GNR officers were at the main reception, so she went to meet them.

When she arrived near the GNR officers, she verified that Gerry, Madeleine’s father, was behind her, in the company of another individual whose identity she doesn’t remember. At that moment, Gerry placed both knees on the floor, hit the floor with both hands, too, placing himself like a praying arab, and shouted out twice in rage, and it was not possible to understand what he said. Then Gerry got back on his feet and accompanied the deponent and the other individual who was in the GNR car, to apartment 5A.

Already on location, the deponent entered the apartment and asked those who were present both for the passports of all family members and photographs of the missing person. The deponent walked Gerry to the GNR car, so he could deliver the requested documents. She states that she carried out these diligences, and other diligences, at the request of the GNR Commander as they used the deponent’s knowledge of the English language to translate the questions that were asked from the missing person’s family members, and the answers that were given. She remembers that Gerry gave the GNR Commander several photographs of the missing person. These were postcard-type photographs, taking their size and shape into account. They were actually photographs of the size and shape of a postcard, and they seemed to be all similar to her.

She also realised that from the very first moment on, both Gerry and the rest of the group members insisted in stating that Madeleine had been abducted, all of them using the word “abducted” instead of missing, and they all showed great interest in informing the press about the situation.

The deponent further recalls that she entered the room where Madeleine had been sleeping. She now remembers that the door was closed. The inside of the room was dark. The shutters were down, and light entered only through its holes. The windows were closed and the curtains slightly open. Gerry, who accompanied the deponent during this visit, with the GNR officers also present, said that it had been him who had closed the window because the babies were still sleeping inside, which the deponent could verify as true. Gerry mentioned that when he noticed that Madeleine was missing, he had found the window and shutters open, and the curtains fluttering.

The deponent recalls that the cots that were used by the babies were placed in the middle of the room and aligned, and therefore she found it strange that someone could have taken Madeleine from the bed where she was sleeping up to the window, because there was no space to get through. The deponent opened the bedroom’s wardrobe to check if eventually Madeleine was hiding inside. Then they all left the room, and someone closed its door again. The deponent remained in the living room for a while, with the GNR officers, Gerry and the other group members that were there in a frenzy, going in and out and speaking on their mobile phones. She noticed that none of the group members, including the child’s mother and father, were busy looking for her. The mother was sitting on the master bedroom’s bed, the father accompanied the deponent and the GNR officers and the other group members walked in and out and spoke on the phone, apparently concerned about informing the press about the event.

She thought that the child’s mother was downbeat with the situation, the father showed his concern and also asked both for the press to be alerted and for dogs to be brought in for the search. Concerning the others, she can only recall that Fiona and her husband, Payne, were hysterical about the situation. At a given moment, right after the PJ’s elements arrived, the child’s parents removed the twins from the cots where they still slept, and took them into the apartment on the first floor. At Kate’s request, the deponent removed the soft toys and a blanket from the cots, and also took them to the first floor. The babies’ cots were left only with the mattresses.

The deponent also wishes to mention that at around 3 a.m. Madeleine’s parents asked for the presence of a priest on location. They didn’t explain the reason why they wanted a priest, but the deponent found the fact strange as there were no indications that the little girl was dead, and that’s the circumstance under which usually the presence of a priest is requested.

At a given moment, the deponent translated the deposition from one of the ladies that belonged to the group of English people, namely one that she indicates as being a brunette. This lady told the GNR officers, and the deponent translated, that she had seen a man crossing the road, possibly carrying a child. The deponent found that situation strange because she was convinced that when she saw this man, the lady was positioned in a spot that has no viewing angle to the location where she had seen the man. She doesn’t know exactly where the lady was positioned when she saw the man passing by, but she knows that she indicated that she saw him passing on the street that lies in front of the window to the bedroom where Madeleine was, walking into the direction of the street that leads to the Baptista supermarket.

When questioned about the clothes that the English group members wore that night, she mentions that she only remembers that Fiona wore a green blouse, Gerry wore a dark coloured shirt, and Fiona’s husband wore light-coloured trousers, she thinks cream-coloured.

And she stated nothing further.”
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato