The parents of a missing child don't matter.

[Eleanor]

We are not talking sympathy but empathy. Putting yourself in someone else's place and trying to understand what motivates them.

Not so much what motivates them, but how they might feel.

[Carew]

IMO - Empathy is putting yourself in another persons shoes and looking at things from their point of view.  This leads to questions like:-

(1)  Would I allow/encourage my elderly mother to be part of a criminal cover up of the death of someone else's child - which could end up with her being arrested and imprisoned in a foreign country?

I know I couldn't do that  - and I don't believe Fiona Payne or any loving daughter could either.

Or:

(2)  'Could I and my friends casually go and publically enjoy a nice meal and exchange banter - all knowing that my daughter had just died!!   and that in an hour's time the place would be crawling with police and we were all going to have to tell a pack of lies to them?'

No I couldn't - and I don't know anyone who could.     Apart from anything else -  'eating' would be a sheer impossibility in those circumstances -  the fear of what was about to happen would see to that.

IMO anyone who thinks the McCanns and their friends could do any of the above has little or no ability to empathise.

Every one of your "how could anyone" emotionally loaded appeals above ............

i.e. the condoning of the behaviour of others ;  the ability to eat and enjoy a relaxed meal complete with jolly banter;......could be applied to the notion of empathy with the potentially waking and distressed child coming........(or not)..... from the adults.


"How could anyone," indeed.

[John]

So you can have sympathy for people who make bad decisions and suffer a tragedy but no empathy, is that what you're saying?

I don't believe one can have empathy until all the facts are known.  I have pity for them all, both sides, and the position they find themselves in which I do believe was not of their own doing.  Circumstances have conspired to create a situation which neither side really want to find themselves in imo.

[Carew]

So you find it difficult to have any sympathy for people who behave differently to you and who, through their own stupidity or thoughtlessness, end up suffering a terrible tragedy? Maybe that's the difference between the two "sides"...?  One "side"  thinks "there but for the grace of God" and admits that they too could, through their own thoughtlessness and stupidity, find themselves in a similar situation, whilst the other side refuses to countenance the idea that they could ever do anything stupid or foolish and that people who do such things deserve to suffer the consequences of their actions.

I don`t think your "two sides" stance is as clear cut as that.

I suspect there were many on the side claiming the high moral ground in the sympathy/empathy stakes who did not apply it to the late Brenda Leyland.............and possibly would not apply it should anything befall a few others prominent in the "behave differently from you" category!

[Brietta]

Given you are so hot on justice for all you shouldn't need directions from me.

In other words you are unable to direct me to other sites where the parents of missing children have been subjected to anything approaching the vituperation of the eight year assault Madeleine McCann's parents have endured ... for the simple reason there are none.

That gives me pause for thought ... that there are those who revel in the situation without thought for all the ramifications there may be to Madeleine's nearest and dearest family and friends shows a side of human nature best avoided.

[G-Unit]

So you can have sympathy for people who make bad decisions and suffer a tragedy but no empathy, is that what you're saying?

I can sympathise with the Mccanns. Their daughter disappeared and they became suspects. The reasons why they were suspected are all there in the files. They weren't charged because the evidence against them was not sufficient, and their friends refused to return to Portugal to take part in a reconstruction which may have completely cleared them. The McCanns have always maintained their innocence, and have sued anyone who said they weren't innocent. In spite of this, many people still suspect them of something. Unless Operation Grange or the re-opened investigation in Portugal can find some other explanation, the McCanns will always have a cloud of suspicion hanging over them. That must feel pretty bad.

[Eleanor]

I can sympathise with the Mccanns. Their daughter disappeared and they became suspects. The reasons why they were suspected are all there in the files. They weren't charged because the evidence against them was not sufficient, and their friends refused to return to Portugal to take part in a reconstruction which may have completely cleared them. The McCanns have always maintained their innocence, and have sued anyone who said they weren't innocent. In spite of this, many people still suspect them of something. Unless Operation Grange or the re-opened investigation in Portugal can find some other explanation, the McCanns will always have a cloud of suspicion hanging over them. That must feel pretty bad.

Probably not as bad as some might hope.  They know that they are innocent.  They will never be charged, so never found guilty.  So all they have to deal with is the loss of their daughter.  Suspicion by some people On Line will mean nothing to them now.

[Alice Purjorick]

In other words you are unable to direct me to other sites where the parents of missing children have been subjected to anything approaching the vituperation of the eight year assault Madeleine McCann's parents have endured ... for the simple reason there are none.

That gives me pause for thought ... that there are those who revel in the situation without thought for all the ramifications there may be to Madeleine's nearest and dearest family and friends shows a side of human nature best avoided.

Long before 2007 I had worked out there are some pretty unpleasant people about who revel in the misfortunes of others, revel in being unpleasant to those perceived as "different from us" and revel in being unpleasant to those having a different viewpoint. Why be surprised it has spilled over into the McCann case? it has been happening for centuries. I think it is reprehensible that some post things the way they do against the McCanns but equally reprehensible is the behaviour of some on the "other side". In my book they are as bad as each other with no redeeming features. They would all be as "happy" debating the merits of different types of clothesline as long as it offered the opportunity to be unpleasant and form pointless little gangs giving each other high fives
End of rant 

[lordpookles]

Lindy Chamberlain seemed to have a worse ride then the McCanns..

[pathfinder73]

Probably not as bad as some might hope.  They know that they are innocent.  They will never be charged, so never found guilty.  So all they have to deal with is the loss of their daughter.  Suspicion by some people On Line will mean nothing to them now.

They didn't actually say that though did they. They either said there is no evidence to implicate them or explained how it couldn't be them because they had an alibi at the time she disappeared.

For Maria Bandeirinha, the owner of a rent a car business, the parents' attitude is incriminating. "Kate passed by my door, laughing her head off, with a friend, days after her daughter disappeared. What mother has a child in an unknown location and feels like laughing? Looking back, I don't even know how she managed to convince the people that her daughter had been stolen from her… Just compare her with Rui Pedro's mother. I'm not going any further, because I'm a mother myself and I cannot imagine life for one minute, if I lost my daughter."
Maria Bandeirinha adds: "Sometimes, popular justice would be a good thing. It would be swifter and easier. Nobody believes a word they say anymore. They still have some support in church, but the priests also know very well what happened that night."

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9333.html

"If she died when we were in the apartment or fell and did something why would we cover that up?" 

Many would be outraged if asked this question.

[G-Unit]

Probably not as bad as some might hope.  They know that they are innocent.  They will never be charged, so never found guilty.  So all they have to deal with is the loss of their daughter.  Suspicion by some people On Line will mean nothing to them now.

No need for sympathy then? That's good to know.

[Brietta]

Long before 2007 I had worked out there are some pretty unpleasant people about who revel in the misfortunes of others, revel in being unpleasant to those perceived as "different from us" and revel in being unpleasant to those having a different viewpoint. Why be surprised it has spilled over into the McCann case? it has been happening for centuries. I think it is reprehensible that some post things the way they do against the McCanns but equally reprehensible is the behaviour of some on the "other side". In my book they are as bad as each other with no redeeming features. They would all be as "happy" debating the merits of different types of clothesline as long as it offered the opportunity to be unpleasant and form pointless little gangs giving each other high fives
End of rant 

Chicken and egg situation Alice.

Do you think I would be here putting my oar in if people like you were not here putting their oar in  &%+((£

If there was such a strong belief in Justice ... people would be standing back and watching events unfold and giving Madeleine McCann's parents the benefit of the doubt while mulling over that it is probably unprecedented for the perpetrators of a crime to draw attention to themselves in their efforts to have the investigation into the crime by, not one, but two National police forces reopened.

[jassi]

No need for sympathy then? That's good to know.

Nor for continued defence of their position, it would seem.  If they don't care, why need others bother on their behalf?

[Brietta]

Lindy Chamberlain seemed to have a worse ride then the McCanns..

Are there people who would prefer it that Dr McCann did serious jail time in a foreign prison before being found innocent?

Lindy Chamberlain went through due process ~ which got it wrong ~ not the kangaroo court of public opinion.

[Eleanor]

No need for sympathy then? That's good to know.

That is not what I said, and well you know it.  So don't play games with my words.

One might also assume from your post that you hope they are suffering from the suspicion that certain people are trying to heap on their heads.