Another look at that pesky sound moderator.

[Holly Goodhead]

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6386.msg260188#msg260188

In reply to Puglove's post above:

POSSIBLE scenarios IF the silencer was deliberately contaminated:

The relatives claim they found the silencer complete with blood, paint and hair on 10th Aug so assuming it was not planted beforehand by EP then they would have to be in on it.  Plus as far as I can see it would only take one corrupt officer.  Now lets see who suspected JB from day 1?  Who collected the silencer from the Eatons?  Who is on video as praying for some evidence to turn up? 

The procedures all seem very sloppy:

- Relatives phone saying they have an exhibit they think EP should look at more closely

- DS Jones turns up 2 days after phone call without an exhibit bag, tag, gloves.  Instead he places the silencer in the inner of a kitchen roll.

- No WS statements taken from the Eatons at the time of collection

- Could have called on DB (the finder of the silencer) to take a WS that evening but instead sat drinking whisky with PE

- Hands silencer into police custody the following day:

CAL's book P232:

"Jones made no note of the silencer in Witham's miscellaneous property register, assuming that it would 'go into the Scenes of Crime system and [be] recorded in that fashion'.  DI Cook regarded the omission as useful 'because it totally minimised the handling of the silencer by others, which would have occurred in the registering of it in property books'."

This begs the question as to whether the staff at FSS were aware of its history. 

CAL sourced the above quotes from the COLP investigation.

When DS Davidson was asked about the victims' blood samples stored in the SoC fridge at Chelmsford police station it seems akin to asking a child about raiding a biscuit tin!  There's no robust audit trail.  The interviewers didn't seem particularly keen in carrying out a through investigation just going through the motions.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=178.0;attach=453

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=178.0;attach=455

- Who had access to the SoC fridge?

- DI Cook is on record as ferrying some of the exhibits to FSS (Doubt DI Cook was involved in anything dodgy).  According to DS Davidson a civilian driver transported the samples to FSS.  Who was the civilian driver?  Is there a WS from him/her?  If it was a civilian driver did he/she travel alone or did a police officer accompany for whatever reason(s)?  If so who? 

- 3 blood samples were taken from SC and NB but only 2 for June and one for each of the twins.  There doesn't seem to be any proper system to check what was handed over by the pathologist was then forwarded to FSS and appropriate checks made to ensure nothing had been tampered with. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=204.0;attach=704

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=204.0;attach=706

The whole process was very weak and just ripe for fabricating evidence if someone was of mind to. 

[Anna]

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6386.msg260188#msg260188

In reply to Puglove's post above:

POSSIBLE scenarios IF the silencer was deliberately contaminated:

The relatives claim they found the silencer complete with blood, paint and hair on 10th Aug so assuming it was not planted beforehand by EP then they would have to be in on it.  Plus as far as I can see it would only take one corrupt officer.  Now lets see who suspected JB from day 1?  Who collected the silencer from the Eatons?  Who is on video as praying for some evidence to turn up? 

The procedures all seem very sloppy:

- Relatives phone saying they have an exhibit they think EP should look at more closely

- DS Jones turns up 2 days after phone call without an exhibit bag, tag, gloves.  Instead he places the silencer in the inner of a kitchen roll.

- No WS statements taken from the Eatons at the time of collection

- Could have called on DB (the finder of the silencer) to take a WS that evening but instead sat drinking whisky with PE

- Hands silencer into police custody the following day:

CAL's book P232:

"Jones made no note of the silencer in Witham's miscellaneous property register, assuming that it would 'go into the Scenes of Crime system and [be] recorded in that fashion'.  DI Cook regarded the omission as useful 'because it totally minimised the handling of the silencer by others, which would have occurred in the registering of it in property books'."


This begs the question as to whether the staff at FSS were aware of its history. 

CAL sourced the above quotes from the COLP investigation.

When DS Davidson was asked about the victims' blood samples stored in the SoC fridge at Chelmsford police station it seems akin to asking a child about raiding a biscuit tin!  There's no robust audit trail.  The interviewers didn't seem particularly keen in carrying out a through investigation just going through the motions.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=178.0;attach=453

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=178.0;attach=455

- Who had access to the SoC fridge?

- DI Cook is on record as ferrying some of the exhibits to FSS (Doubt DI Cook was involved in anything dodgy).  According to DS Davidson a civilian driver transported the samples to FSS.  Who was the civilian driver?  Is there a WS from him/her?  If it was a civilian driver did he/she travel alone or did a police officer accompany for whatever reason(s)?  If so who? 

- 3 blood samples were taken from SC and NB but only 2 for June and one for each of the twins.  There doesn't seem to be any proper system to check what was handed over by the pathologist was then forwarded to FSS and appropriate checks made to ensure nothing had been tampered with. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=204.0;attach=704

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=204.0;attach=706

The whole process was very weak and just ripe for fabricating evidence if someone was of mind to.

Well done, Holly. 
 All very valid points of what was added to the evidence of guilt (or, what they said was) at a fair rate of noughts, by some.

[Anna]

I do wonder why a silencer was used. The dog would have been going mad(unless he only barks at people at the door) This is the dog that Jeremy said that he hated.....so why didn't he shoot it?

[Holly Goodhead]

I do wonder why a silencer was used. The dog would have been going mad(unless he only barks at people at the door) This is the dog that Jeremy said that he hated.....so why didn't he shoot it?

Apparently a silencer makes very little difference with the type of rifle and bullet used as they are both low powered.

[Holly Goodhead]

I understand the original pre DNA testing in 1985 could only rule out suspects whereas the DNA testing in 1999/2000 could have gone much further had the baffle blood samples not been exhausted.

In JB's case the blood in the silencer was analysed based on serological analysis.  It is rarely statistically individualising.  As you can see from the table below the blood in the silencer matched SC's sample on 4 tests.  I believe about 8% of the population would share the same 4 results.  RB shared all four results with SC but it seems unlikely he would contaminate the silencer with his own blood as how would he know this?  JB's defence asked the relatives to provide blood samples as they found the silencer and they obliged.

I think a lot of JB's supporters fail to recognise the importance of the silencer and blood evidence.  All this talk about animal blood and homing in on AK1 etc is all wrong. 

Table showing the victims' blood, enzyme and protein results:

                          ABO                    PGM                    EAP                     AK                    Hp

Nevill Bamber           O                        PGM1+                EAP BA               AK1                   Hp2-1
June Bamber            A                         PGM1+                EAP BA               AK2-1                Hp2-1
Daniel Caffell            O                        PGM2+1+            EAP B                 AK1                   Hp2
Nicholas Caffell         O                        PGM2+1+           EAP B                 AK1                    Hp2
Sheila Caffell            A                        PGM1+                EAP BA               AK1                    Hp2-1

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blood In Silencer      A                        Nil                        EAP BA              AK1                    Hp2-1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Robert Boutflour       A                         PGM1+                EAP BA              AK1                     Hp2-1

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ABO = Blood Group System

PGM = Phosphoglucomutase (Enzyme) Breaks down quickly outside the body hence blood in silencer was unable to produce a reading

EAP = Erythrocyte Acid Phosphatase (Enzyme)

AK = Adenylate Kinase (Enzyme)

HP = Haptoglobin (Protein)

[Passer-by]

I'm with Anna:  he'd have shot the dog.  I also think the dog was barking at the perpetrator and stopped when she killed herself. 

Personally I think they all thought it was suicide until they heard SC shot herself twice, then not having exact info on the forensics of that they all immediately assumed it must be murder so looked for/found 'evidence'.  Whereas now it's been stated she could have fired both shots.  I don't think she walked around after the first one, that's stretching it, I think both shots were close together:  she may have lain with her head up against the bedside table to take the strain off her neck muscles holding it up.

The test  done for the jury showed the moderator barely made any difference in noise level to the human ear, only to rabbits.  JB would have known this. 

[Holly Goodhead]

I'm with Anna:  he'd have shot the dog.  I also think the dog was barking at the perpetrator and stopped when she killed herself. 

Personally I think they all thought it was suicide until they heard SC shot herself twice, then not having exact info on the forensics of that they all immediately assumed it must be murder so looked for/found 'evidence'.  Whereas now it's been stated she could have fired both shots.  I don't think she walked around after the first one, that's stretching it, I think both shots were close together:  she may have lain with her head up against the bedside table to take the strain off her neck muscles holding it up.

The test  done for the jury showed the moderator barely made any difference in noise level to the human ear, only to rabbits.  JB would have known this.

The pathologist said he was unable to confirm murder or suicide and that he had experienced a few cases of suicide with more than one gunshot. 

I think EP and other experts eg pathologist were satisfied with the murder/suicide theory but the relatives most certainly were not.  The relatives were then allowed to effectively take over and carry out their own investigation.  Much of the prosecution case was effectively drawn up by the relatives:

- AE stated SC was uncoordinated and unable to use a gun
- AE found June's bike at JB's after snooping around his cottage when he was out and then this suddenly became the mode of transport used to carry out the murders
- RB claimed JB said he could kill his parents
- DB 'found' the silencer complete with blood, paint and a hair attached
- AE found splash marks on the windows and the whole window theory was down to the family.  Then of course weeks later a rusty hacksaw blade is 'found' just below a window

[Passer-by]

 

(There:  just to prove insomniac  scan be brief Holly!)

[Anna]

Because of the moderator and scuffle with Neville, I had assumed that it was impossible for Sheila to have done it. However If we forget the moderator, as it appeared to have only made the rifle cumbersome to use and that would be a handicap to anybody committing 4 murders or possibly 5.
It was possible, but then again she was so clean. Then she did love animals and wouldn't have hurt the dog.

Did Jeremy say he hated the dog to sound like a tough guy. He had a dog and was devastated when it got run over and died, so not such a hard guy, in fact a bit wimpish.
After a further two hour break, questioning recommenced at 7.30pm. Jones asked Jeremy to look at a photograph of the telephone on the kitchen worktop with the ammunition beside it.
‘Before I see the photograph is it in any way disturbing?’
‘No, it is not.’
Jones pushed the image across the table. Jeremy pointed to a photograph on the worktop. ‘Picture of my mum,’ he said quietly.

If it was Jeremy I don't think it would have been such a difficult job to overcome his father. So could he have paid someone to kill them? If so who................Who was he giving money too? We know that he liked to spend his money on himself.

[Anna]

In JB's case the blood in the silencer was analysed based on serological analysis.  It is rarely statistically individualising.  As you can see from the table below the blood in the silencer matched SC's sample on 4 tests.  I believe about 8% of the population would share the same 4 results.  RB shared all four results with SC but it seems unlikely he would contaminate the silencer with his own blood as how would he know this?  JB's defence asked the relatives to provide blood samples as they found the silencer and they obliged.

I think a lot of JB's supporters fail to recognise the importance of the silencer and blood evidence.  All this talk about animal blood and homing in on AK1 etc is all wrong. 

Table showing the victims' blood, enzyme and protein results:

                          ABO                    PGM                    EAP                     AK                    Hp

Nevill Bamber           O                        PGM1+                EAP BA               AK1                   Hp2-1
June Bamber            A                         PGM1+                EAP BA               AK2-1                Hp2-1
Daniel Caffell            O                        PGM2+1+            EAP B                 AK1                   Hp2
Nicholas Caffell         O                        PGM2+1+           EAP B                 AK1                    Hp2
Sheila Caffell            A                        PGM1+                EAP BA               AK1                    Hp2-1

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blood In Silencer      A                        Nil                        EAP BA              AK1                    Hp2-1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Robert Boutflour       A                         PGM1+                EAP BA              AK1                     Hp2-1

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ABO = Blood Group System

PGM = Phosphoglucomutase (Enzyme) Breaks down quickly outside the body hence blood in silencer was unable to produce a reading

EAP = Erythrocyte Acid Phosphatase (Enzyme)

AK = Adenylate Kinase (Enzyme)

HP = Haptoglobin (Protein)

Robert Boutflour followed his son-in-law into the witness box. He grew agitated when Rivlin asked whether he might have cut himself at any stage after the discovery of the silencer, implying that the blood within the baffles was his rather than Sheila’s, since by pure coincidence they had the exact same blood grouping. He became irate when Rivlin questioned his memory of Jeremy declaring: ‘I could kill anybody, I could even kill my parents.’ In response to Rivlin’s suggestion that Jeremy ‘didn’t say anything at all about killing his parents’, Robert thundered: ‘You can suggest it, but I was there and I heard it!’ He was hustled, red-faced and protesting, out of court while the judge discussed a point of law with both counsels. Colin Caffell was in the witness waiting room at the time, and sensed that the relatives risked turning the jury against them, such was their obvious revulsion towards Jeremy.

[Passer-by]

I have no problem with a 5'8" woman in her mid 20s fit enough to bear twins managing to overcome an already injured man who may well have been rested or collapsed in a chair - even without the added factor she may have believed she was fighting the devil incarnate.  For pitysakes we have women smaller than that in the Army.

I'd like to know what we're the clothes were soaking in the bucket:  she may have taken them off on autopilot thinking it was menses, rubbed the clothes up and down a bit then washed her hands and put a clean nightie on.  I don't think there would have been much blood on the perpetrator anyhow form a .22 or from hitting Nevil with the gun:  the blood will have emanated from the victims wounds whilst on the floor, but without violent splash back.

The damage could all equally have happened with or without the sound moderator.

[Anna]

I have no problem with a 5'8" woman in her mid 20s fit enough to bear twins managing to overcome an already injured man who may well have been rested or collapsed in a chair - even without the added factor she may have believed she was fighting the devil incarnate.  For pitysakes we have women smaller than that in the Army.

I'd like to know what we're the clothes were soaking in the bucket:  she may have taken them off on autopilot thinking it was menses, rubbed the clothes up and down a bit then washed her hands and put a clean nightie on.  I don't think there would have been much blood on the perpetrator anyhow form a .22 or from hitting Nevil with the gun:  the blood will have emanated from the victims wounds whilst on the floor, but without violent splash back.

The damage could all equally have happened with or without the sound moderator.

It might have been rather difficult to hold a gun with extra length of the silencer and pull the trigger, don't you think? And why would she want the silencer after everyone else was killed. I can understand that she may have got cleaned up(although how I don't know) but why hide the silencer......I find it difficult to believe a silencer was used by anyone. The gunsmith said that it wasn't all that easy to detach. The gun was without a silencer when she was found.
I have now started reading a book by Scott Lomax so I hope to compare what is said.

[Angelo222]

I do wonder why a silencer was used. The dog would have been going mad(unless he only barks at people at the door) This is the dog that Jeremy said that he hated.....so why didn't he shoot it?

Because the theme was ' Sheila done it'

Jeremy made several miscalculations.  He was shocked when he found out that the rifle wasn't as powerful as he thought and needed several bullets to kill a person. He must have panicked when his first attempt to shoot Sheila only stunned her.

[Passer-by]

I don't think the silencer was used:  I think it's completely fabricated evidence.  The only person who says the gun was fitted with sights and a silencer before the killings was a gun dealer who illegally kept his own identical gun off the premises, and returned his own identical silencer at the same time he brought his gun back, and stood to gain from Bamber's imprisonment.

 If you look at the photo of the gun balanced against the wall next to the 'gun cupboard (a posh title for what in reality is just the space under a small tight staircase) without the moderator and compare it to the photo of the policeman holding it with the moderator, I don't think it would even have fitted under the stairs with the moderator on.

JB had used the gun a lot and he had been on shoots with shotguns and objected to anything other than vermin being killed:  he would have known how long and unwieldy the gun was with the moderator  - it would have been extremely impractical for moving from room to room and I'm surprised there wasn't paint damage to door jams etc.  He would also have known it is not a silencer and scarcely deadens the sound of the shots.  He would also have known that animals like foxes are still able to run off after being shot once with a .22 - it would be plain as a pike staff you'd need more than that to take down Nevill.

It is precisely this miscalculation which points to it being Sheila.  I think the trigger for the event will have been sudden, but from personal experience I'd say she had thought about doing this for months as a way of coping with stress:  'if it gets any worse I can at least do this'.  She possibly scoped out the gun and handled it in private as part of that feeling of regaining control/power over her life.

The evidence from AE that SC was too uncoordinated to load the gun, couldn't even pour a cup of tea etc was ridiculous and completely at odds with the fact she had managed to paint her nails perfectly OK a few days earlier.  (And incidentally her toenail varnish was clearly chipped in the autopsy photo, if she had redone her fingernails she would also have done her toenails, so it's likely her fingernails were no longer perfect as well).

All we know about the blood on the moderator was that there was a tiny bit of it and frankly it could have come from a rabbit.  We don't even know if it's the original moderator.  The people who found the moderator also cleaned the house of blood:  they are still living there with bloodstained underlay in their bedroom - how hard would it be to get a bit of blood on the moderator?  And would it really have looked, as AE said, like "jam" all that time later?  Sounds like a bit of inventiveness inspired by Inspector Morse.

The moderator is a complete Red Herring.

[Passer-by]

But on another note:  can anyone explain how SC's x-Ray clearly shows a bullet broken into fragments, Dr Vanezis states the neck bullet broke into fragments - but police exhibits 60 and 61 are two whole bullets, one allegedly from her head and the other allegedly from her neck?