Another look at that pesky sound moderator.

[Passer-by]

And another thing! 

The idea that Nevill was a stickler for gun security:  the conditions of owning a shotgun are that it is kept secured in a locked cupboard, with the key safely stored.  My experience of my in-laws farm is this isn't something everyone takes as seriously as they might (it's unsurprising that Farming is also the occupation with the highest number of industrial accidents!).

The photographs of the gun cupboard show that (a) it doesn't appear to have a lock on it and (b) it was obstructed by a desk, making it hard to use so less likely they did so.  It is therefore highly probable the gun was out.  I doubt the  with him being a gun dealer, would have wanted to highlight that too much.

[Myster]

I don't think the silencer was used:  I think it's completely fabricated evidence.  The only person who says the gun was fitted with sights and a silencer before the killings was a gun dealer who illegally kept his own identical gun off the premises, and returned his own identical silencer at the same time he brought his gun back, and stood to gain from Bamber's imprisonment.

 If you look at the photo of the gun balanced against the wall next to the 'gun cupboard (a posh title for what in reality is just the space under a small tight staircase) without the moderator and compare it to the photo of the policeman holding it with the moderator, I don't think it would even have fitted under the stairs with the moderator on.

JB had used the gun a lot and he had been on shoots with shotguns and objected to anything other than vermin being killed:  he would have known how long and unwieldy the gun was with the moderator  - it would have been extremely impractical for moving from room to room and I'm surprised there wasn't paint damage to door jams etc.  He would also have known it is not a silencer and scarcely deadens the sound of the shots.  He would also have known that animals like foxes are still able to run off after being shot once with a .22 - it would be plain as a pike staff you'd need more than that to take down Nevill.

That's a double-barreled shotgun balanced against the Office/Den wall, not the actual murder weapon - an Anschutz 525...

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg71558#msg71558

Anthony Pargeter discovered the Bambers' newish Anschutz complete with moderator and telescopic sights alongside his own weapon in the gun cupboard, and I've no cause to disbelieve him. His was lying on the floor cased, and theirs propped with the butt on the floor, uncased next to it.

As it was referred to as a "gun cupboard" then it obviously was used to store weapons at some stage or other, and imo could easily contain a fully fitted-out Anschutz because the winders and additional normal treads of the stair continue to right as in the photo below and as drawn in the GF plan (S3)...

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg25947#msg25947

An Anschutz 525 is not unwieldy even with a moderator.  I've used a quality air rifle of similar length and weight to an Anschutz and that was easy to control, even more so when held with the butt under the armpit (as seen in Wild-West movies) to shorten it. The noise in a confined bedroom space indoors with sound bouncing off hard surfaces such as walls, ceiling, doors, and cupboards would be louder than if the rifle was fired outdoors too... hence his reason to use a moderator to reduce it.

[Angelo222]

I don't think the silencer was used:  I think it's completely fabricated evidence.  The only person who says the gun was fitted with sights and a silencer before the killings was a gun dealer who illegally kept his own identical gun off the premises, and returned his own identical silencer at the same time he brought his gun back, and stood to gain from Bamber's imprisonment.

 If you look at the photo of the gun balanced against the wall next to the 'gun cupboard (a posh title for what in reality is just the space under a small tight staircase) without the moderator and compare it to the photo of the policeman holding it with the moderator, I don't think it would even have fitted under the stairs with the moderator on.

JB had used the gun a lot and he had been on shoots with shotguns and objected to anything other than vermin being killed:  he would have known how long and unwieldy the gun was with the moderator  - it would have been extremely impractical for moving from room to room and I'm surprised there wasn't paint damage to door jams etc.  He would also have known it is not a silencer and scarcely deadens the sound of the shots.  He would also have known that animals like foxes are still able to run off after being shot once with a .22 - it would be plain as a pike staff you'd need more than that to take down Nevill.

It is precisely this miscalculation which points to it being Sheila.  I think the trigger for the event will have been sudden, but from personal experience I'd say she had thought about doing this for months as a way of coping with stress:  'if it gets any worse I can at least do this'.  She possibly scoped out the gun and handled it in private as part of that feeling of regaining control/power over her life.

The evidence from AE that SC was too uncoordinated to load the gun, couldn't even pour a cup of tea etc was ridiculous and completely at odds with the fact she had managed to paint her nails perfectly OK a few days earlier.  (And incidentally her toenail varnish was clearly chipped in the autopsy photo, if she had redone her fingernails she would also have done her toenails, so it's likely her fingernails were no longer perfect as well).

All we know about the blood on the moderator was that there was a tiny bit of it and frankly it could have come from a rabbit.  We don't even know if it's the original moderator.  The people who found the moderator also cleaned the house of blood:  they are still living there with bloodstained underlay in their bedroom - how hard would it be to get a bit of blood on the moderator?  And would it really have looked, as AE said, like "jam" all that time later?  Sounds like a bit of inventiveness inspired by Inspector Morse.

The moderator is a complete Red Herring.

Anyone who thinks Sheila could have attacked and killed her parents and murdered her sons without missing a single shot is, to put it mildly, sorely deluded.

Regardless of how efficient the silencer was, it reduced the noise and with neighbours distant on both sides of the farmhouse this was an important factor.

What you in particular fail to understand Passer-by is that the only weapon available to Jeremy was the Anschutz rifle if his 'Sheila done it' plan was to convince anyone.

It has been proven by forensics expert Mark Webster that the blood was not animal blood.

www.forensic-science.co.uk/bamber.html

[Angelo222]

But on another note:  can anyone explain how SC's x-Ray clearly shows a bullet broken into fragments, Dr Vanezis states the neck bullet broke into fragments - but police exhibits 60 and 61 are two whole bullets, one allegedly from her head and the other allegedly from her neck?

It was a large fragment.

[Passer-by]

It was a large fragment.

Apparently it broke into 15 pieces - and it wasn't that big to start with:  why would the Police describe a large fragment as "whole"?

[Angelo222]

And another thing! 

The idea that Nevill was a stickler for gun security:  the conditions of owning a shotgun are that it is kept secured in a locked cupboard, with the key safely stored.  My experience of my in-laws farm is this isn't something everyone takes as seriously as they might (it's unsurprising that Farming is also the occupation with the highest number of industrial accidents!).

The photographs of the gun cupboard show that (a) it doesn't appear to have a lock on it and (b) it was obstructed by a desk, making it hard to use so less likely they did so.  It is therefore highly probable the gun was out.  I doubt the  with him being a gun dealer, would have wanted to highlight that too much.

We only have killer Bambers say so that the Anschutz was left out and we know what that's worth. 

[Angelo222]

Apparently it broke into 15 pieces - and it wasn't that big to start with:  why would the Police describe a large fragment as "whole"?

Obviously an error.

[Holly Goodhead]

Because of the moderator and scuffle with Neville, I had assumed that it was impossible for Sheila to have done it. However If we forget the moderator, as it appeared to have only made the rifle cumbersome to use and that would be a handicap to anybody committing 4 murders or possibly 5.
It was possible, but then again she was so clean. Then she did love animals and wouldn't have hurt the dog.

Did Jeremy say he hated the dog to sound like a tough guy. He had a dog and was devastated when it got run over and died, so not such a hard guy, in fact a bit wimpish.
After a further two hour break, questioning recommenced at 7.30pm. Jones asked Jeremy to look at a photograph of the telephone on the kitchen worktop with the ammunition beside it.
‘Before I see the photograph is it in any way disturbing?’
‘No, it is not.’
Jones pushed the image across the table. Jeremy pointed to a photograph on the worktop. ‘Picture of my mum,’ he said quietly.

If it was Jeremy I don't think it would have been such a difficult job to overcome his father. So could he have paid someone to kill them? If so who................Who was he giving money too? We know that he liked to spend his money on himself.

There are some knowns about the case.  One being that NB was shot four times upstairs.  He received two shots to his face from close range.  These two injuries alone were life threatening.  They caused heavy blood loss internally and externally and extreme pain.  He received one shot to his left arm which left it totally impaired.  The other shot only grazed his shoulder.  The four shots he received downstairs, in the kitchen, were said to have been fired in quick succession and immediately fatal.  He was not physically able to engage in a "violent struggle" in the kitchen as he had been too badly injured in his bedroom.  The pathologist describes his actions as a "spirited defence". 

[John]

There are some knowns about the case.  One being that NB was shot four times upstairs.  He received two shots to his face from close range.  These two injuries alone were life threatening.  They caused heavy blood loss internally and externally and extreme pain.  He received one shot to his left arm which left it totally impaired.  The other shot only grazed his shoulder.  The four shots he received downstairs, in the kitchen, were said to have been fired in quick succession and immediately fatal.  He was not physically able to engage in a "violent struggle" in the kitchen as he had been too badly injured in his bedroom.  The pathologist describes his actions as a "spirited defence".

A minor point Holly.  The eighth bullet casing DRH14 was found on the first landing of the main staircase so in theory he might not have been shot 4 times in the kitchen.  Then again a policeman or even the shooter could have kicked the empty casing from further up the stairs.

[Myster]

A minor point Holly.  The eighth bullet casing DRH14 was found on the first landing of the main staircase so in theory he might not have been shot 4 times in the kitchen.  Then again a policeman or even the shooter could have kicked the empty casing from further up the stairs.

According to CAL, I assume in recent conversations with former members of the investigation, the mysterious missing fourth casing might have jammed in the ejection port after the last shot in the kitchen and JB managed to free it at the top of the stairs on his way back up, where it was discovered.

... or it was carried up in the tread of a boot and magically released!

[John]

According to CAL, I assume in recent conversations with former members of the investigation, the mysterious missing fourth casing might have jammed in the ejection port after the last shot in the kitchen and JB managed to free it at the top of the stairs on his way back up, where it was discovered.

... or it was carried up in the tread of a boot and magically released!

Yes, I can go with that too.  The origin of the casing on the stairs will always be a mystery.

[Passer-by]

I'd have thought it was possible for any of the casings downstairs to have been kicked about or wedged in the dole of a boot because the floor wasn't carpeted and they'd have been like marbles when the police entered, obviously more interested in making the scene safe than preserving it.

[Myster]

@ anglolawyer

Just had a look at the moderator drawing that Holly uploaded over at IA. The first one attached below, I think.

There's a later drawing of the "same" moderator SBJ/1 (Stanley Brian Jones) and dated 25th Sept '85.  Second and third attachment

[Myster]

This is a photo of a differently-shaped moderator, which was taken from the OS and also pictured in the Mark Williams Thomas/Simon McKay television investigation about the burn marks on NB's back. There's an added boss and the right-hand barrel end isn't chamfered as in the above drawings.

[anglolawyer]

Thanks Myster.   This is worth immersing oneself in, although I suspect it will be a demanding, time-consuming task.