Another look at that pesky sound moderator.

[david1819]

Anyone who thinks Sheila could have attacked and killed her parents and murdered her sons without missing a single shot is, to put it mildly, sorely deluded.

How so? How can you miss mainly still targets at point blank range? and more to the point one bullet did miss Neville grazing him.

Many have mentioned including myself that had Jeremy done it you would expect Neville to go first with a bullet straight through the forehead. All I can say is that a Guilty Jeremy is also a very poor marksmen

[Holly Goodhead]

It now seems from knowledge gained on another forum that the silencer found by the relatives on 10th August was forensically analysed by FSS on 13th August.  It was then returned to EP.  When the investigation changed from murder/suicide to murder the same silencer was resubmitted for further examination  &%+((£ 

[Myster]

It now seems from knowledge gained on another forum that the silencer found by the relatives on 10th August was forensically analysed by FSS on 13th August.  It was then returned to EP.  When the investigation changed from murder/suicide to murder the same silencer was resubmitted for further examination  &%+((£

So!?  It just means EP didn't have enough evidence to charge him when the mod was first submitted, so it was returned until they did.

Isn't it time you changed that message to "PARKER-HALES DON'T GET HOT AND DESTROY BLOOD EVIDENCE".

[Holly Goodhead]

So!?  It just means EP didn't have enough evidence to charge him when the mod was first submitted, so it was returned until they did.

Isn't it time you changed that message to "PARKER-HALES DON'T GET HOT AND DESTROY BLOOD EVIDENCE".

Not just returned for further analysis but dismantled.  Why would this not be done first time around?  Surely they would be on the hunt for the grey hair which could have dropped inside and been hugging a baffle or two?   &%+((£

More importantly blood analysed by conventional serological analysis degrades quickly so I would have expected the scientists at FSS to take the silencer apart and extract everything possible at the earliest opportunity.

Silencers get hot when a bullet is fired through them.  And blood exposed to any heat source degrades and the potential for conventional serological analysis can be lost.  So no my avatar message is an important point which needs to be tested properly hence the ?

Tests carried out to date to assess heat have been concerned with the outside of the silencer/tip in connection with NB's burn marks.  The heat generated inside the silencer causing all internal parts to heat up is likely to be much hotter than the outside/tip.   The hot gasses exit slowly through the inner walls and baffles. 

 

[Myster]

The scientists felt the moderator by hand in pre-trial tests and it was only slightly warm...

... so how about - "SUZI QUATRO FOR PRIME MINISTRESS!"? 

[Holly Goodhead]

The scientists felt the moderator by hand in pre-trial tests and it was only slightly warm...

... so how about - "SUZI QUATRO FOR PRIME MINISTRESS!"? 

Malcolm Fletcher makes ref in CAL's book to test firing the rifle/silencer to determine the temperature but this was in connection with the burn marks to NB's back.  MF noted it was warm to the touch.  The CoA doc makes ref to 24.5c but the conditions are unclear.  Philip Boyce in the 'new evidence' ITV docu also carried out experiments based on heat but again connected to NB's burn marks and he didn't state the temp just it wasn't hot enough to cause the burn marks.

What we need is a biologist to carry out serological analysis on blood after firing the rifle/silencer and leaving for 5 weeks in ambient temperature to ascertain if the blood is still capable of producing results for the antigens, enzymes and protein ie  ABO, EAP, HK and HP.

No stress.  I'm quite chilled at the moment as I've recently learned the Bay City Rollers are making a comeback 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/bay-city-rollers-bits-side-6711175

Just need to dig out my tartan glad rags and I'll be there on my space hopper 

[Holly Goodhead]

When a poster posted on another forum that the silencer (found by relatives) was returned to EP and was then resubmitted I nearly choked on my glass of rose as it was the first time I had heard this and the poster overall sounds credible (he thinks JB guilty btw &%+((£). I honestly thought it was probably top secret but I can now see it is common knowledge:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=168.0;attach=283

It appears someone has attempted to scrub out the following words which I've deciphered as:

"initial" and "I received possession of both these items"

I've not seen a resubmission mentioned previously just more than one silencer was involved with exhibit labels changed.

[Holly Goodhead]

Malcolm Fletcher makes ref in CAL's book to test firing the rifle/silencer to determine the temperature but this was in connection with the burn marks to NB's back.  MF noted it was warm to the touch.  The CoA doc makes ref to 24.5c but the conditions are unclear.  Philip Boyce in the 'new evidence' ITV docu also carried out experiments based on heat but again connected to NB's burn marks and he didn't state the temp just it wasn't hot enough to cause the burn marks.

What we need is a biologist to carry out serological analysis on blood after firing the rifle/silencer and leaving for 5 weeks in ambient temperature to ascertain if the blood is still capable of producing results for the antigens, enzymes and protein ie  ABO, EAP, AK and HP.

No stress.  I'm quite chilled at the moment as I've recently learned the Bay City Rollers are making a comeback 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/bay-city-rollers-bits-side-6711175

Just need to dig out my tartan glad rags and I'll be there on my space hopper 

[Myster]

Calm down, Dear... you're jiggling about between too many forums!

[Holly Goodhead]

Calm down, Dear... you're jiggling about between too many forums!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9C53IEcg_0 

and Charlie

[Holly Goodhead]

Scipio's claims on Blue:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7075.msg333646.html#msg333646

"The inside of the opening has a lip.  That lip is threaded and acts as a shelf.  On this "shelf" was the blood she saw.  The "blob" she saw sitting on this shelf was removed by the lab on Aug 13 and used to test whether it was human blood or something else. It was determined to be human blood.  On this same "shelf" Lincoln removed enough blood traces to successfully type test it and he determined it to be group A.  If there was no blood there then the lab would not have gotten a positive test for blood and Lincoln would not have found traces of group A blood there. He said the amount of blood remaining there exceeded the amount on the baffles. That is not at all surprising since physics results in the largest particles of blood traveling not far while the smaller particles of blood would be able to travel several inches deep. This results in the quantity of blood found deep being less.

Since a moderator is open on both sides light can get inside the back while you are looking at the front so long as you hold it in a manner other than looking at the ground. Obviously holding it up to the light or a window with light coming in is the best.  Doing this enabled the family to see the blood inside. They also saw the blood on the face of the moderator when looking at the opening because the face is the aspect containing the opening.  Normally you just see the outside wall".

This being the case I wonder why the silencer was returned to EP by the lab on 13th August and resubmitted circa mid Sept for dismantling and a peep inside when the 'flake' was first  identified and tested  &%+((£

[Holly Goodhead]

DI Cook confirms he submitted the silencer (found by the relatives on 10th Aug and collected by DS Jones on 12th Aug)  to the lab on 13th Aug.  The same day ie 13th Aug DI Cook took possession once again of the silencer along with the rifle and returned to EP:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=168.0;attach=283

Scientist Glynnis Howard confirms she undertook preliminary testing on the silencer on 13th Aug:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=169.0;attach=305

If the blood inside the silencer was observed on 13th Aug why not test it then and there?  If it wasn't observed why not?  Why re-examine again mid Sept?

[Myster]

I'm not even sure that the relatives did look through the end and saw any blood inside.  David Boutflour only mentions noticing the spot of blood on the outside, and that the body itself was sticky.  Sticky from what, I wonder?

https://youtu.be/bcTvqLk0MWU?t=29m42s

[Holly Goodhead]

I'm not even sure that the relatives did look through the end and saw any blood inside.  David Boutflour only mentions noticing the spot of blood on the outside, and that the body itself was sticky.  Sticky from what, I wonder?

https://youtu.be/bcTvqLk0MWU?t=29m42s

Hmmm the CoA doc claims they "examined it":

74. The silencer was taken to Ann Eaton's address for safekeeping and that evening members of the family examined it. They noticed that the "gun blue" of the surface had been damaged and there appeared to be red paint and blood upon it. The moderator was packaged up and the police were informed of the discovery. When collected by DS Jones on 12 August he noticed a grey hair, about an inch long attached to it. By the time the moderator had been delivered to the Forensic Science Service at Huntingdon the hair had been lost.

It makes no sense to me.  When was the grey hair first observed?  DI Cook was aware of it and claims it was lost in his possession while in transit from EP to FSS.  Surely he would ask the lab to dismantle the silencer and look for the hair? 

DI Cook's trial testimony where he confirms the above:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=168.0;attach=303

It's funny how the mind plays tricks/misses info and pre-conceived ideas take over.  I've read the above and other WS's several times.  But it was only after a poster on IA highlighted the fact the silencer was returned to DI Cook/EP on 13th Aug that the penny dropped. It was then held by EP until it was resubmitted mid Sept when it was dismantled and the flake found.  I had wrongly assumed the silencer was dismantled and the flake found when the silencer was first submitted and it was then retained by FSS until post trial.  I suppose I could be forgiven for thinking this.   I'm convinced more than ever the whole silencer 'evidence': blood, paint and hair was fabricated.

[scipio_usmc]

I can't understand how the evidence of the moderator would be admissible in a modern court?  It wasn't there when the police searched the cupboard (didn't they even photograph it?) but mysteriously appears when a gun dealer returned his own gun to the cupboard after illegally keeping it off-site, contrary to the terms of the license.  One relative says it had 'jam' like stuff in it, then it's described as a 'flake', then it's shoved in a bag by some other things, handled by loads of people without gloves - most of whom benefit from JB going to jail - and was then stored with other items that could cross-contaminate it.  If this is the kingpin of the prosecution it is breathtaking he hasn't had a retrial.

38

It was there when police searched the cupboard.  Police didn't care about it thus didn't take notice of it being there.  They didn't take out everything in the closet and carefully inspect it all and record all the items in the closet.

If they took out everything and recorded it and failed to list it then you could use that to suggest it wasn't there.

There was a tiny bit of human blood:
outside:
1) on the face,
2) in the knurled portion
3) in an indented ring towards the rear of the moderator
inside:
4) inside the opening
5) a flake trapped between the first 2 baffles
6) on the first 8 baffles

The blood inside the opening is what the family could see.  They could not see the baffles and flake which were too deep inside to see and too small to really notice anyway. The baffles were swabbed that is how the blood was found on them.

Defense expert Lincoln swabbed the area inside the opening where the blood the family saw had been and managed to find microscopic traces still present despite the lab removing the blood that was visible.  He tested it and found it to be group A blood consistent with Sheila's.  He also found weak traces on the first 8 baffles.  The remaining 9 baffles tested negative for blood.

The Defense chose not to use Lincoln at trial because his evidence supported the prosecution.