Author Topic: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail  (Read 251000 times)

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Offline dewanifacts

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #90 on: August 10, 2015, 11:25:26 PM »
So you were totally convinced of his innocence and took up the mantle, laudible, but I wish you luck IF your beliefs are true
It must be a high mountain to climb to achieve the opposite of what alot of people think, ie, well you know

I'm not sure what you mean. We're not trying to convince anyone of anything. The (lack of) evidence with regard to Shrien Dewani's involvement speaks for itself. If you look at the title of this thread and how we entered this thread, you'll see that we didn't ask to discuss Shrien Dewani. We seek justice for Anni and we want our site to be accurate, fact focused and hopefully help to uncover the truth.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #91 on: August 10, 2015, 11:46:48 PM »
I'm not sure what you mean. We're not trying to convince anyone of anything. The (lack of) evidence with regard to Shrien Dewani's involvement speaks for itself. If you look at the title of this thread and how we entered this thread, you'll see that we didn't ask to discuss Shrien Dewani. We seek justice for Anni and we want our site to be accurate, fact focused and hopefully help to uncover the truth.

The first thing you will have to change on your site is your reference to exonerated.  As already pointed out, the trial was brought to a halt for lack of credible evidence and a not guilty verdict returned in accordance with the law.  A not guilty verdict returned under these circumatances is not an exoneration, you should be more careful how you word things.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline mercury

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #92 on: August 11, 2015, 12:00:43 AM »
I'm not sure what you mean. We're not trying to convince anyone of anything. The (lack of) evidence with regard to Shrien Dewani's involvement speaks for itself. If you look at the title of this thread and how we entered this thread, you'll see that we didn't ask to discuss Shrien Dewani. We seek justice for Anni and we want our site to be accurate, fact focused and hopefully help to uncover the truth.

Im sorry  about this but i don't  believe your agenda is justice for Anni, I could be wrong

But also your saying a "lack of evidence" of Dewanis guilt speaks for itself

You should be saying he is innocent BECAUSE
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 12:03:09 AM by mercury »

Offline Passer-by

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #93 on: August 11, 2015, 12:42:39 AM »
I see. So because Africa has such a huge scale of injustice and corruption, you cannot grasp why anyone might take an interest in any other type of injustice?

Will you be going through each and every thread on this site and informing all participants that they should be redirecting their attentions toward solving Africa's problems?
 

No:  I think it's pretty clear that I'm suggesting you have an undeclared agenda.

Offline Passer-by

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #94 on: August 11, 2015, 01:31:26 AM »
So would many people but I fear you will have a long wait.  This was but one reason why the trial should have been allowed to continue.  Simply saying that SAP were incompetent just doesn't cut it.

Just to put some perspective on that John:  I went out there not long after Apartheid ended and it was like the Wild West.  My other half wanted me to carry a gun, so I tried out a large selection but decided, given our rows are definitely on the heated side, that I'd prefer to carry a key-ring fob of CS gas instead.  However I would not go to where they went even accompanied by my other half and a mate even if they were armed.  My other half and most of his mates is ex British Special Forces:  no-one in their right mind would enter that area at any time of day or night, you'd be totally out-gunned and out-numbered.

Take as quiz at these crime Stats:
http://www.crimestatssa.com/toptenbyprovince.php?ShowProvince=Western%20Cape

Now:  Khayeitsha, Mitchell's Plain, Nyanga, Mfeleni, Harare, Elsie's River - these places are one big sprawling mass of poverty and crime:  it's like a Mafia Heartland. 

And Dewani (a) took his wife right through them late at night (b) miraculously escaped and (c) no-one else then robbed him (yes, never underestimate the opportunism of desperation).
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 12:04:42 PM by John »

Offline Passer-by

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #95 on: August 11, 2015, 02:18:03 AM »
The Cape Grace - for several months I lived an apartment right behind it, The Bascule Bar was rather happily my local.  My toddler adored watching the Bascule Bridge open and shut umpteen times a day.

https://www.capegrace.com/#

When you step out you're in this:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a3dkVNwFTzI
(The [Name removed] wheel wasn't there when Anni visited).  The Cape Grace is to the left of the big red Lego man statue at the very end of the clip.

The airport is some way off in Cape Flats:  you have to drive down a rather bleak road between the two across Cape Flats - the view from the window:  each of those cubes made of bits of wood, plastic bags and rubbish houses a family.  Apparently Anni reached her hotel and thought she would like to visit a Township to see the real Africa, that's why she wore high heels and a sparkly cocktail dress . . . ?!


Offline Passer-by

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #96 on: August 11, 2015, 02:27:23 AM »
A photo of Khaylitsha - in the distance you can see Table Mountain:  the safe Tourist area where Anni was staying is on the other side.

And an aerial photo of a small part of the Township.

Offline dewanifacts

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #97 on: August 11, 2015, 07:58:11 AM »
The first thing you will have to change on your site is your reference to exonerated.  As already pointed out, the trial was brought to a halt for lack of credible evidence and a not guilty verdict returned in accordance with the law.  A not guilty verdict returned under these circumatances is not an exoneration, you should be more careful how you word things.

Thank you for the suggestion, Angelo222. For now, we are content to go with the dictionary and legal definition of exoneration. If you can point to some legal sources that explain your contention that this wasn't an exoneration, then we will be happy to revisit and revise our wording.

I think you will struggle to find any such source. The standard of proof for a trial to continue after the prosecution case ends, is extremely low (much lower than the "beyond reasonable doubt" standard that applies at the end of the trial). All that is required at the halfway point is some credible evidence and the trial will continue. That is what happens with most trials. When a trial is stopped because the evidence cannot even meet this low standard, then it is an overwhelmingly clear indication that there is nothing that links the accused to the crime, and thus it is  an indisputable exoneration.


Offline dewanifacts

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #98 on: August 11, 2015, 08:08:21 AM »
Im sorry  about this but i don't  believe your agenda is justice for Anni, I could be wrong

But also your saying a "lack of evidence" of Dewanis guilt speaks for itself

You should be saying he is innocent BECAUSE

Hi Mercury,

Don't be sorry. Everyone is entitled to their view. Shrien Dewani's position is obviously linked to achieving justice for Anni. He was her husband and he was accused of being involved in the murder. We clearly cannot ignore him when discussing the case, however he isn't the focus for us, because the evidence made it clear that he wasn't involved. 

If you read our site's content, it should be abundantly clear how we know that he is innocent. I am sure that forum members would not appreciate me cutting and pasting large swathes of content from our site onto here, and I don't intend to type it all out.

Am happy to answer any questions you may have, or to clarify but please do take the time to have a look at our site if you would like to understand our position.

Might I make the comment that a lot of posters in this thread seem to have very strong views on the case, coupled with a very weak grasp on the basic facts and flawed understanding of the legalities. A recipe for disaster some might say! Although I guess this is no surprise when it comes to this case.

Offline dewanifacts

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #99 on: August 11, 2015, 08:38:00 AM »
It has been a while since I read the judgement but what is clear is that Tongo's story was convoluted and ultimately highly confused.  There were several areas however which in theory could have tied the alleged conspiracy together and which involved the making of several phone calls.  In the event however, records failed to confirm most of these calls and texts which Tongo claimed Dewani made.

According to Tongo, the Dewanis arrived on the Friday and by that same night a plan had been put into place to kill someone the following night.  I find that rather difficult to believe unless Dewani and Tongo were not strangers but in fact had some prior dealings, there is no evidence to suggest this was the case.

There are limited scenarios in this case.  Did the hijacking occur without Tongos knowledge ie was he an innocent participant?  The answer here is in his plea bargain.  No innocent person will seek a plea bargain which would see them sentenced to 18 years in prison.

So we are left with two possibilities, either Tongo was telling the truth and agreed to set up a hit for a personal fee of 5,000 Rand or about  £250 ( R15,000 or £750 going to the two killers) or Tongo was telling a load of porkies and it was he himself who set it all up as a hijacking/robbery.

Apologies John for not being able to address this until today.  Its not easy to respond to such a post briefly as you make a number of points. 

Tongo's testimony was not merely convoluted. His version of events contradicted his own statements as well as those of his co-conspirators on almost every material aspect of the case. The only thing that the phone calls and texts proved, was that there was interaction between Tongo and Dewani. Neither Tongo or Dewani disputed that those interactions took place. The only thing that was in dispute was whether those interactions related to organising a helicopter trip or a murder. Paragraphs 20-22 of the Judgement explain this.

It is natural that there would be some errors and inconsistencies when recalling events from four years prior. Whilst these do raise little flags regarding his reliability as a witness, we are of the belief that these "mistakes" on their own do not prove that Tongo was lying about Dewani's involvement. The proof lies in the deceptive fabrications and perjury, in which Tongo was caught red handed. Apologies but I'm just going to lift a few examples straight from our site rather than typing it again.

TRUE 23:

Both Tongo and Mbolombo were caught fabricating testimony, relating to a phone call and texts that never existed, with the sole purpose of incriminating Shrien Dewani. The gist of their testimony was to make it appear as though Dewani had been chastising them to ensure that his wife would be killed and was in a hurry for it to happen. Paragraphs 23.1.79, and 24.3.37 of the Judgement, detail these fabrications, and the fact that both the prosecution and the defence teams agreed that the call/texts never took place.

TRUE 28:

There was a fifth conspirator in the plot, who was referenced in a taped phone conversation between Tongo and Mbolombo. Both Tongo and Mbolombo refused to name the fifth conspirator in Court. They contradicted each other’s answers and lied to cover this person’s identity. Paragraph 23.1.100 and 23.1.101 of the Judgement explain this point.
 
TRUE 29:

Qwabe refused to explain to the Court, why he drove Anni back into a residential area, when (according to him) he was carrying out a planned execution. Paragraph 24.1.28 of the Judgement, summarises Qwabe’s nonsensical contradictory evidence in this regard.


TRUE 33:

On the night of the fatal robbery, Zola Tongo made two “passes” through Gugulethu, with the Dewanis travelling in his taxi. The hijacking was supposed to occur on the first pass, however it didn’t eventuate because Qwabe and Mngeni failed to get a ride to the agreed location by the agreed time. After stopping for dinner, the hijacking was re-scheduled and took place later in the evening during the second pass through Gugulethu. Tongo admitted, under oath, that he made no attempt to ascertain whether the money was in the car prior to the first pass through Gugulethu, and since the Dewanis sat in the back of the taxi, Tongo knew with 100% certainty that the money could not be in the cubbyhole. This point is of great importance, given Zola Tongo’s claim that an integral part of the plan was for Dewani to leave an “agreed” R15,000 in the car’s cubbyhole (glovebox) for the hijackers. So despite knowing that the key element of his own version, the price of the hit, was not in place he was content to drive to the hijacking spot anyway. This is solid proof that there was no “agreed” sum, and that this was in fact a robbery/kidnapping operation of which Shrien Dewani had absolutely no knowledge. Paragraphs 23.1.71 and 23.1.78 of the Judgement detail this crucial point, and highlight Tongo’s deception.



Those are but a few examples of Tongo's deceptiveness. Read our site or the Judgement if you are interested in having the full arsenal of facts at your disposal.

It is our view (and the judge's view) that the hitman story could not reasonably possibly be true. It doesn't make any sense, its highly improbable on many levels, and the criminals who told that story were caught in so many instances of deception that it became obvious that they made it up to serve their own purposes.

Perhaps you can understand then why we are outraged at Mbolombo being a free man? The NPA have apparently told him that he will never be prosecuted. Does that sound like justice for Anni?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 12:05:32 PM by John »

Offline Passer-by

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #100 on: August 11, 2015, 09:08:43 AM »
Hi Mercury,

Don't be sorry. Everyone is entitled to their view. Shrien Dewani's position is obviously linked to achieving justice for Anni. He was her husband and he was accused of being involved in the murder. We clearly cannot ignore him when discussing the case, however he isn't the focus for us, because the evidence made it clear that he wasn't involved. 

If you read our site's content, it should be abundantly clear how we know that he is innocent. I am sure that forum members would not appreciate me cutting and pasting large swathes of content from our site onto here, and I don't intend to type it all out.

Am happy to answer any questions you may have, or to clarify but please do take the time to have a look at our site if you would like to understand our position.

Might I make the comment that a lot of posters in this thread seem to have very strong views on the case, coupled with a very weak grasp on the basic facts and flawed understanding of the legalities. A recipe for disaster some might say! Although I guess this is no surprise when it comes to this case.

Mercury I think you have no need to apologise for your suspicions given less than a fortnight after the Dewani family rather bizarrely engaged a man famous for a life-time's career of manipulating both the Truth and the Public - a man now a proven liar languishing in jail for 8 years himself - Max Clifford.

What a strange thing for the Dewanis to do:  pretty much without precedent after a murder.  But I'm sure Dewanifacts' silver tongue can melt your doubts away with the cover-all excuse that, as Oscar Wilde noted, "possibility is infinite".  And let's face it this is turning into a bit of a farce.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1332973/South-African-honeymoon-widower-hires-Max-Clifford-help-clear-name.html

Offline dewanifacts

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #101 on: August 11, 2015, 09:30:21 AM »
I'm sure you will be pleased to know that the Dewani family's disasterous dalliance with pedophile PR perp Max Clifford is highlighted on our site. 


Offline Passer-by

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #102 on: August 11, 2015, 09:56:59 AM »
I'm sure you will be pleased to know that the Dewani family's disasterous dalliance with pedophile PR perp Max Clifford is highlighted on our site.

Only briefly in passing, it doesn't mention it being disasterous at all:  actually, as it was him who decided attack was the best means of defence and claimed Dewani was being set up by the SAPS to protect the reputation of South African Tourism.  I think I've made it plain as a pike staff how unlikely it was that they would visit that area as normal tourists - a suspicion immediately held by most South Africans, but it's safe to say that Max Clifford turned the country against him and confirmed the general doubts. 

This event had a very real and serious knock-on effect for local people.  Having visited the real South Africa you will know that the Rand breaks down into 100 cents and the economy has 1 cent coins.  Although these are no longer minted, they remain legal tender and are used at the lower end of the economy:  I'm sure in your quest to not do any of the things normal tourists do you will have walked somewhere without a sidewalk, where ordinary locals go to and from their daily business, and you will have seen ladies sitting in the shade with a small bit of wood across 2 bricks to form a 'stall' with a handful of boiled sweets ranged on the top for workers to buy on their way home - usually for 1 or 2 cents.  They will sit there for hours to sell them.  There are roughly 20 rands to the pound at the moment: 1 cent so worth £0.0005

And here you are with your Twitter Campaign, still trying to screw the livelihoods of all the hardworking decent folk of Cape Town in a country with no State Benefits who are completely dependent on Tourism to try to change the public perception of a slippery proven liar who in any case escape jail..

I don't know why you're bothering:  the man doesn't even want to defend himself - either to his father-in-law or to the public.

Offline Passer-by

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #103 on: August 11, 2015, 10:25:47 AM »
Cape Grace Hotel:  online form to book an airport transfer - I knew they hadn't got rid of them!

https://www.capegrace.com/#/en/Services/Concierge/4

Offline Passer-by

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #104 on: August 11, 2015, 10:28:23 AM »
And as I pointed out on an earlier post, you can book a variety of tours via the Hotel Concierge - this is the case with most hotels in South Africa, not just the poshest ones.

https://www.capegrace.com/#/en/Services/Concierge/1