Did Nevill Sustain The Four Gunshot Wounds Upstairs On The Landing And Stairs?

[Holly Goodhead]

Regarding DRH13 and DRH14 attributed to June? - it seems feasible that both could have been fired by the perp standing in the area of the black spot near the capital D in diagram below, with the rifle pointing down at June's head. The impact of the two shells ejecting downwards and to the right was cushioned by the carpet, resulting in DRH13 coming to rest on the doorway metal strip and DRH14 tumbling down alongside the skirting to the lower landing. Rather than the latter being carried up jammed in and released, from a boot sole or from a stovepipe blockage in the rifle.

I don't think so as it wouldn't fit with the tracts and trajectories of June's wounds?

[Myster]

I don't think so as it wouldn't fit with the tracts and trajectories of June's wounds?

Why not?  One wound between her eyes just above the nose, the other above her right ear... not much different to the way her head was positioned when discovered (1 & 2).

[Holly Goodhead]

Why not?  One wound between her eyes just above the nose, the other above her right ear... not much different to the way her head was positioned when discovered (1 & 2).

I believe the GSW to the ear was sustained while June was in bed but I can't be sure of that.

Where Dr Vanezis refers to "the track of the wound..." I think from this a pathologist will be able to determine for example whether the perp fired a shot from position D, as you have suggested, which would also mean the casing ejection port is on the landing with the barrel pointing inside the bedroom thus allowing DRH/14 to eject along the landing and land against the wall compared with shots fired by rotating the perp and rifle 180 degrees?  Am I making sense and have I understood you correctly?

[scipio_usmc]

I don't think so as it wouldn't fit with the tracts and trajectories of June's wounds?

Wrong as always.  The shot between her eyes was indeed delivered in such position and that is why never waivered and continued to assert DRH/13 was the casing associated with such shot.

While the right side head shot could have been delivered while she was on the floor based on trajectory, the blood evidence on June's pillow proved she suffered this shot while she was lying down in bed. Thus they had to face she was shot in the head while in bed and their theory that this shot was fired while the killer stood in the hall with the weapon's ejection port facing the stairs no longer applied.  Thus they no longer asserted DRH/14 was associated with such shot.  Vanezis assessed that Nevill was shot all 4 times in the skull while in the kitchen.  One kitchen casing was unaccounted for so they realized DRH/14 was accidentally transported from the kitchen by either the killer or raid team members.

 

[Myster]

If June was shot above the right ear whilst her head was resting on the pillow, where has all the blood on that pillow come from?

[scipio_usmc]

If June was shot above the right ear whilst her head was resting on the pillow, where has all the blood on that pillow come from?

I assume you meant to say "if June wasn't shot" while her head was on the pillow how did her blood get there.  I just want to be sure.

[Myster]

I assume you meant to say "if June wasn't shot" while her head was on the pillow how did her blood get there.  I just want to be sure.

I meant was.

June must have been lying down on her left side, or sat up facing the wardrobe with her legs outside the bed for her to have received a shot just above the right ear. Vanezis didn't report any exit wound on the left side for that bullet. There's a large blood stain on the pillow, which means that her head must have been stationary on it for a period while blood drained from a (left-sided?) head wound. Also, there doesn't appear to be any smearing on the right side of her face (in the doorway photo) which I would have expected had that side been in contact with the pillow blood stain. The stain also appears too high up on the pillow for the blood to have come from the neck wound? The question is... after receiving such a devastating shot which caused cerebral bruising, haemorrhaging and brain disruption, how come she was able to wander about the bedroom for a period as evidenced by the large amount of blood staining on her nightie from her other wounds and the numerous spots which dripped onto the carpet?

[scipio_usmc]

I meant was.

June must have been lying down on her left side, or sat up facing the wardrobe with her legs outside the bed for her to have received a shot just above the right ear. Vanezis didn't report any exit wound on the left side for that bullet. There's a large blood stain on the pillow, which means that her head must have been stationary on it for a period while blood drained from a (left-sided?) head wound. Also, there doesn't appear to be any smearing on the right side of her face (in the doorway photo) which I would have expected had that side been in contact with the pillow blood stain. The stain also appears too high up on the pillow for the blood to have come from the neck wound? The question is... after receiving such a devastating shot which caused cerebral bruising, haemorrhaging and brain disruption, how come she was able to wander about the bedroom for a period as evidenced by the large amount of blood staining on her nightie from her other wounds and the numerous spots which dripped onto the carpet?

The killer was at the foot of the bed in either the center or partially in front of Nevill when firing at June.

If you consider such position then you will see why the shots were hitting June's right side. With her lying on her back he was to her right. That is why the blood is on the right side of the pillow from her perspective.  Looking at it from ours it is to the left but that is where the right side of her head was.

Shooting at her from the foot of the bed not only results in her right side being targeted but also would result in the casings landing in the upper corner of the room next to her side of the bed which is where they were found.

After some shots were fired at her the killer stayed near the foot of the bed but turned towards Nevill as he was sitting up or getting out of bed.  He may have moved further toward's June's side to try to angle his shots better.  That resulted in the shots coming to Nevill's left side and the casings would land either on June's side of the bed or the corner next to June's bed.

The 2 casings associated with June's chest shots are further towards the door rather than in the corner which suggests she was getting out of bed when shot.  By her body being a foot over from where it was the killer had to aim the gun more towards the door which in turn caused the casings to fall closer to the door instead of up in the corner.

 

[scipio_usmc]

I'm not even remotely a competent artist so ignore the pathetic nature of June's body you are lucky it is not a stick figure.

The killer was standing around the K.  The lines mark the trajectory of the bullets and show where the rifle was generally pointed for each shot. The reason the neck wound is in purple is because if red you would not see it because of the overlap over the other lines. 

The yellow lines show where the casings would go from shots fired in such locations.  You can see that the casings line up with where they were found.

The 2 chest wounds are the ones delivered when June was getting out of bed or entirely out of bed. Because she was getting out of bed her body was much further towards the door than when she was lying in bed.  The killer had to turn to the right to aim at her and in turn this caused the shell casings to fall further to the right instead of with the others in the corner next to the bed. 

As she was getting out of bed her right side was facing the killer hence the chest wounds also came to her right side. This is why all these entrance wounds are to her right side.

As I stated on blue many times, I personally believe that after emptying the gun and seeing that Nevill was coming after him that he fled to get more bullets.  At that point June either walked around the bed to try to aid Nevill and walked back with him to the door but collapsed or after Nevill left to pursue Jeremy she walked around the bed for some unknown reason perhaps because she was in a daze then turned around and collapsed on her way to the door.  Nevill in the meantime either walked towards Sheila's door and tried to speak to her but was unable to speak and thereby dripped blood on the carpet or he simply went down stairs as fast as he could and caught up with Jeremy in the kitchen as he was trying to load the magazine and tried to grab the weapon then Jeremy grabbed it back and they struggled and upon taking full sole control Jeremy then beat him with it until he was unconscious then reloaded in peace and shot him killing him.  Then upon going upstairs he shot the boys then went back to the other wing and if Nevill didn't drip the blood near her door before going downstairs then it dripped off the weapon or Jeremy's gloves on his way to get Sheila. Either before he got Sheila or after he killed Sheila he fired a shot between June's eyes to make sure she was dead.

Nevill could not move that fast he was even bouncing against the walls as he was moving.  Even if he managed to bolt past Jeremy somehow as they fought in the bedroom, Jeremy should have been able to catch Nevill before he reached the kitchen.  So it seems more likely to me that Nevill chased Jeremy to stop him from reloading and to try to subdue him. I have been stabbed before.  I was furious and went into a rage with adrenaline pumping.  Between seeing his wife shot and being shot himself I am sure Nevill wanted to rip his head off. Jeremy was very lucky that Nevill's arm was broken or the outcome might have been very different. 

     

   

[scipio_usmc]

As for Nevill, with Nevill seated on the side of the bed like this in order to get up what faces the killer?  His left profile which happens to be where all 4 shots he suffered in the bedroom came from.  All 4 shots were to his left profile. 



The killer could be in the same location as where June's shots were fired from or a little bit further towards June's side of the bed.  What is clear is the killer was at the foot of the bed when shooting both of them. The exact position at the foot of the bed can vary.

If Nevill sat up in bed so was looking towards the foot of the bed then the killer had to be further towards June's side of the bed to be able to target him in the areas he was hit.  After shooting June Jeremy could have moved a little closer to the door then shot Nevill.  It could be a mix where he shot Nevill sitting up then as Nevill turned to get up Jeremy moved closer to shoot him some more.  What is obvious as day is that Nevill began to turn to get up and then the shot to his shoulder was fired.  Though it was to his left profile it was a little behind Nevill so it means he could not simply have been sitting up in bed facing the headboard he had to have begun to move to get up.

[Holly Goodhead]

As for Nevill, with Nevill seated on the side of the bed like this in order to get up what faces the killer?  His left profile which happens to be where all 4 shots he suffered in the bedroom came from.  All 4 shots were to his left profile. 



The killer could be in the same location as where June's shots were fired from or a little bit further towards June's side of the bed.  What is clear is the killer was at the foot of the bed when shooting both of them. The exact position at the foot of the bed can vary.

If Nevill sat up in bed so was looking towards the foot of the bed then the killer had to be further towards June's side of the bed to be able to target him in the areas he was hit.  After shooting June Jeremy could have moved a little closer to the door then shot Nevill.  It could be a mix where he shot Nevill sitting up then as Nevill turned to get up Jeremy moved closer to shoot him some more.  What is obvious as day is that Nevill began to turn to get up and then the shot to his shoulder was fired.  Though it was to his left profile it was a little behind Nevill so it means he could not simply have been sitting up in bed facing the headboard he had to have begun to move to get up.

I've been meaning to get back to you on this but with Christmas and New Yr have been quite busy. 

You seem to be implying that the lip and jaw gun shot wound (gsw) NB sustained entered via his side and yet the tracts of the wounds and location of the bullets show that the following were injured which is difficult to reconcile if the shots entered sideways unless the two bullets took a sharp turn:

- cervical musculature
- cervical vertebra
- laryngeal
- submandibular

My interpretation is that where Dr Vanezis refers to "left side of the lower lip" and "left lower jaw" this in no way indicates the shots entered sideways.  They were face on. 

The same applies to the shoulder and elbow shot.  If you follow the tract wounds and final resting place of the bullet the wounds are to the back of his left shoulder and elbow.  I dont believe they entered sideways. 

[Holly Goodhead]

I'm not even remotely a competent artist so ignore the pathetic nature of June's body you are lucky it is not a stick figure.

The killer was standing around the K.  The lines mark the trajectory of the bullets and show where the rifle was generally pointed for each shot. The reason the neck wound is in purple is because if red you would not see it because of the overlap over the other lines. 

The yellow lines show where the casings would go from shots fired in such locations.  You can see that the casings line up with where they were found.

The 2 chest wounds are the ones delivered when June was getting out of bed or entirely out of bed. Because she was getting out of bed her body was much further towards the door than when she was lying in bed.  The killer had to turn to the right to aim at her and in turn this caused the shell casings to fall further to the right instead of with the others in the corner next to the bed. 

As she was getting out of bed her right side was facing the killer hence the chest wounds also came to her right side. This is why all these entrance wounds are to her right side.

As I stated on blue many times, I personally believe that after emptying the gun and seeing that Nevill was coming after him that he fled to get more bullets. At that point June either walked around the bed to try to aid Nevill and walked back with him to the door but collapsed or after Nevill left to pursue Jeremy she walked around the bed for some unknown reason perhaps because she was in a daze then turned around and collapsed on her way to the door.  Nevill in the meantime either walked towards Sheila's door and tried to speak to her but was unable to speak and thereby dripped blood on the carpet or he simply went down stairs as fast as he could and caught up with Jeremy in the kitchen as he was trying to load the magazine and tried to grab the weapon then Jeremy grabbed it back and they struggled and upon taking full sole control Jeremy then beat him with it until he was unconscious then reloaded in peace and shot him killing him.  Then upon going upstairs he shot the boys then went back to the other wing and if Nevill didn't drip the blood near her door before going downstairs then it dripped off the weapon or Jeremy's gloves on his way to get Sheila. Either before he got Sheila or after he killed Sheila he fired a shot between June's eyes to make sure she was dead.

Nevill could not move that fast he was even bouncing against the walls as he was moving.  Even if he managed to bolt past Jeremy somehow as they fought in the bedroom, Jeremy should have been able to catch Nevill before he reached the kitchen.  So it seems more likely to me that Nevill chased Jeremy to stop him from reloading and to try to subdue him. I have been stabbed before.  I was furious and went into a rage with adrenaline pumping.  Between seeing his wife shot and being shot himself I am sure Nevill wanted to rip his head off. Jeremy was very lucky that Nevill's arm was broken or the outcome might have been very different. 

     

   

If NB needed June to aid him in walking how did he enter into a "violent struggle" with JB in the kitchen?

If the rifle had blood dripping from it why were the scientists unable to recover sufficient blood for grouping?  And why didn't it leave any marks on SC's nightdress?  The photo of the rifle resting on SC doesn't show any visible blood?

[Myster]

I think June was having enough problems walking on her own to bother about supporting Nevill.

[scipio_usmc]

If NB needed June to aid him in walking how did he enter into a "violent struggle" with JB in the kitchen?

If the rifle had blood dripping from it why were the scientists unable to recover sufficient blood for grouping?  And why didn't it leave any marks on SC's nightdress?  The photo of the rifle resting on SC doesn't show any visible blood?

1) He didn't need June to aid him to walk but she may have tried to walk over to him to check him out or even to try running to him for comfort.  She could have walked to that side after Jeremy and Nevill both left already there is no way to know.

2) The blood on the rifle was already dry by the time the rifle was placed on Sheila.  The blood was spatter it wasn't that big so didn't take that long to try. You would need to look very close up to notice it and we don't have nice detailed photos of the rifle. Some of it certainly rubbed off on Jeremy but Jeremy would have been hit with the spatter directly anyway.

[scipio_usmc]

No way did Sheila and Nevill switch places. Caroline and the others on blue who came up with such are simply being  ridiculous.  What grown woman sleeps in their mother's bed and kicks their father to another bed unless the mother is physically ill and needs care so staying all night permits such or the mother is pissed off at her husband and refuses to let him sleep with her and there are not enough beds in the house for both the daughter and husband to sleep elsewhere so the daughter sleeps with the mother to allow her father to still have a place to sleep. Jeremy's former room had another bed so there was no such need.

Common sense is ignored to pretend a grown woman would need to sleep with a mother she was not close to and the entire premise is woven around the claim that the slippers in Sheila's room must be Nevill's even though neither police nor Eaton say they were man's slippers and there are women's slippers that look like that. 

There is no question at all that the bullet that grazed Nevill as well as 4 casings associated with shots fired at Nevill were found in the master bedroom. He was shot in there.  The location of those casings support him being shot while near his side of the bed.  The gun had to be facing in when fired because if fired with the gun facing the door then the ejection port would have ejected the cases along the wall that had the window.  The trajectory of at least 2 shots supports he was seated in bed/on the bed when shot. The trajectory of all 4 of these shots featured Nevill's left profile facing the killer not his front as would be the case if he was shot after walking in.  The gun was empty and only then did things proceed to the kitchen.  There is no way in hell that Jeremy would have shot June and then Nevill after he entered and run down to fight in the kitchen leaving Sheila awake in the master bedroom unscathed so she could wake up her kids and flee let alone is it credible that Sheila failed to go wake her kids and try to hide them or flee and instead just sat there in the bedroom waiting for Jeremy or Nevill to return. Either she was chased into the bedroom and trapped on the other side of the bed or Jeremy forced her there at gunpoint.


I'm going to make a compass out of Nevill he is the center. S = shoulder shot, L= lip shot, G = graze wound and J = Jaw shot.

                       North
               
                         
             J,L,G
         West       Nevill        East
                S
               
             
                      South

With Nevill's face facing to the North his right is to the East and his left is to the West.  Note the trajectory of the shots.  he killer was to Nevill's West but not straight to his West.  The shoulder shot was a little Southwest.  So the shooter was the the left and slightly behind Nevill.  The other 3 shots were the opposite. The killer was to the left but ever so slightly in front of Nevill. Either Nevill was moving as he was being shot at, or the killer was moving, or a little of both.  Nevill moving is most likely because it would explain it would explain his shots. He was moving to his right to get off the bed thus exposing his left side to the killer and also in the process of rising. Rising resulted in the killer striking him lower than the killer intended. Aiming at his head the killer hit his jaw and lip because he stood up so his jaw and lip were where his head had been at the time the killer was aiming and as he was moving right the bullets got more shallow.  The jaw shot was probably first, the lip had more of an angle and the graze shot even more of an angle still much closer to 90 degrees than the others.  Then after he moved so far to the right that he was Southeast of the killer instead of Northeast the 4th shot to the shoulder was fired. If Nevill had been standing upright then to hit that location the rifle would have to have been aimed up instead of down so clearly he was either sitting still or in the process of getting up and not fully upright.  The killer would have to be at the foot of the bed and the casings would have to be on June's side of the bed or on the floor near June's side of the bed in the corner. 1 was on June's side of the bed and the other 3 were in the corner.  So it is pretty clear Nevill was on his side of the bed when he was shot. The bullet from the graze wound had to ricochet or have been moved because there is no natural way it could get where it was found. I suppose it is possible it somehow got stuck in Nevill's gown and fell out as he walked by but I think it more likely it ricocheted there.  here is no way to place Nevill's body in a location where the bullet can graze him in the manner it did and land there naturally and yet the killer to be to his Southeast.