Bamber supporter lies about the rifle being in the bedroom window

[scipio_usmc]

One crime scene photo shows the rifle leaning next to the window.  According to the photographer and crime scene personnel, after photographing Sheila's body the rifle was removed and leaned in that location.

Some Bamber supporters ridiculously assert that the rifle was in that location prior to police entering.  This is absurd because if true it would prove Sheila was murdered because there is no way she could have killed herself then walked over to placed the rifle and walk around the bed to lay down. Dead people don't walk around.

Some of these same supporters claim that Jeepes saw this rifle where it was leaning.  First of all, the rifle is not in the window it is next to it so could not be seen by someone on the ground 30 yards away looking at the window.  So even if it had been there it would not have been seen.  But worse Jeepes was not looking in the bedroom window she was looking at the boxroom window and wrote a month later that she saw a stick like object that she thought could be the barrel of a rifle. She wasn't sure what the object she saw actually was.  Interestingly while at the scene she didn't tell anyone at the time that she could see something she thought might be a rifle barrel.  So she had such little confidence in her suspicion that she didn't even convey it to anyone else.

This is one of those worthless red herrings by Jeremy supporters.  If true it would be additional evidence Sheila didn't kill herself but it is false that the gun was left by the window it was on her body when police entered.

[Myster]

There's only one loony supporter who believes that scipio, and he does a really naff American accent - "Essex police took the rifle from the windowww an' placed it aaan the baaady".

The rest ignore him and carry on regardless. Hang on a minute... the number of supporters there has dwindled to the number of fingers you can count on one, errrm... finger!

[adam]

There's only one loony supporter who believes that scipio, and he does a really naff American accent - "Essex police took the rifle from the windowww an' placed it aaan the baaady".

The rest ignore him and carry on regardless. Hang on a minute... the number of supporters there has dwindled to the number of fingers you can count on one, errrm... finger!

I thought it was a very fetching American accent. Bit whispering though. Certainly needs the voice to resonant more in order to get a part on CSI Miami. Although with a quiet voice perhaps he could play a killer.

[adam]

Mikes thread on this currently has 77 replies. Over 70 of them from Mike himself !

I had created a thread on this subject ten days earlier. Which had got 54 replies, 4 from me. Mike must have forgotten about it, although he had posted on it.

[Holly Goodhead]

Mikes thread on this currently has 77 replies. Over 70 of them from Mike himself !

I had created a thread on this subject ten days earlier. Which had got 54 replies, 4 from me. Mike must have forgotten about it, although he had posted on it.

He clearly has a penchant for mass debating alone!  Which of you had most views?

[adam]

He clearly has a penchant for mass debating alone!  Which of you had most views?

Mike's has. And the gap will increase as Mike logs in to post on his thread.

[scipio_usmc]

David continues with his childish nonsense.

On blue he said that there is a witness account proving the murder weapon was in the bedroom window prior to the raid, says it is beyond dispute and posts a cartoon accusing others of ignoring reality.

David is just doing what he does best which is transferring his own flawed practices onto others and misrepresenting that they are engaging what he is actually engaging in.

David: "Eye witness account of rifle besides window + crime scene photo of rifle in the exact same place as eye witness account stated."

So David cites 2 pieces of evidence that establish beyond question that the murder weapon was in the bedroom window prior to the police raid.

Let's fact check David's claim

I. Eyewitness testimony
A) Jeapes was looking in the boxroom window.  How does claiming she saw something that looks like a rifle barrel in the boxroom window help establish there was a rifle barrel in the window of the bedroom?  This alone completely eliminates Jeapes as a potential witness to the murder weapon in the master bedroom window since she was not on that side of the house looking int he master bedroom window but rather was at the containment site on the kitchen side looking in the boxroom window.

B) Even if Jeapes had been looking int he bedroom window, which she was not, she wasn't sure she saw any rifle barrel let alone the rifle barrel of the murder weapon.  All she knew is she saw something stick like that appeared like it could be the barrel of a rifle but could have been a broom for all she knew.  She never stated she could tell it was the murder weapon as opposed to something else.  The raid team mmebers who went int he house all say the murder weapon was on Sheila's body not near any window when they entered.  Their eyewitness testimony is what rational people go buy because they were the only ones in a position to know what the murder weapon looked like and where it was.  From outside no one coudl identify the murder wepaon.

C) Jeapes didn't tell anyone contemporaneously that she saw what appears to be a rifle barrel.  That either means she was too unsure to broach it or she didn't appreciate at the time that it looked like a rifle barrel and only later did she consider it a possibility.

Any one of the above rules out her witness statement as helping to establish the murder weapon was in the bedroom window when the raid team entered.

David's claim that her testimony helps establish beyond question that the murder wepaon was in the bedroom window when police entered is beyond laughable it is totally absurd and the exact kind of denial he accuses others of engaging in.  How could a witness who was looking in a different window establish anything was in the bedroom window?  Logic is not his strongsuit. 

II. The photo
A) Raid team says the murder wepaon was on Sheila's body when they entered
B) Only member of the raid team to stay during the crime scene processing said that after photographing her body with the rifle on it he removed the rifle and leaned it against the wall where it was later photographed
C) Crime scene personnel say it was on her body until they had it removed and placed where it was photographed
D) The photographer and crime scene personnel say the last photos taken were of the scene other than where the bodies were. The photographer went around taking photos of the hallways etc and that is when the rifle was captured against the wall proving it was moved later because it was photographed on Sheila's body first.
E) in the location where the gun was photographed no one could see it from 30 yards away on the ground, it was next to the window not in front of it.  In any event none of the cops stations outside the front of the house claim to have seen a rifle in the bedroom window.  The only cop to claim to see something that could possibly be a rifle was looking at the boxroom window.

Only someone living in denial would claim the photo proves the murder weapon was in the window at the time of the raid all it proves is that the murder weapon was placed there subsequently.

 

[adam]

Were you impressed with Mike's American accent Scipio ?

[scipio_usmc]

Were you impressed with Mike's American accent Scipio ?

I have never heard Mike speak.

[david1819]

So David cites 2 pieces of evidence that establish beyond question that the murder weapon was in the bedroom window prior to the police raid.

I never claimed the rifle by the window was the murder weapon, I was simply suggesting two rifles could have been used, One murder weapon left by the window and then the other murder weapon across Shelia's body.

[adam]

https://youtu.be/mmCART1vcCo

[Holly Goodhead]

Where's the documentary evidence for the rifle against the window?

Is WPC Jeapes the only officer to make the claim?

What time was it seen?

It's frustrating not having measurements for WHF.  Surely unless the windows are low she would struggle to make out anything that might resemble the barrel of a rifle at the window?

Sounds like another 'trick of the light' 

[scipio_usmc]

I never claimed the rifle by the window was the murder weapon, I was simply suggesting two rifles could have been used, One murder weapon left by the window and then the other murder weapon across Shelia's body.

The only other rifle in the house was not a real firearm it was a CO2 pellet gun. No victim was shot with a pellet gun.  All 25 wounds were made by a 22LR bullet. The largest fragment of most of those bullets were recovered and tied to the Anschutz ballistically. All 25 casings were recovered and conclusively matched as being fired by the Anschutz.  Thus the Anschutz fired all 25 rounds used to kill the victims.

Even if the pellet rifle had been in the boxroom window and noticed by Jeapes what relevance would this hold to the murders?       

[Holly Goodhead]

I've just checked CAL's book and I can't see anything in there about claims of a rifle by a window.  I'm not suggesting the book is the oracle but I find it quite reliable.

What time was this claimed sighting?

[scipio_usmc]

Where's the documentary evidence for the rifle against the window?

Is WPC Jeapes the only officer to make the claim?

What time was it seen?

It's frustrating not having measurements for WHF.  Surely unless the windows are low she would struggle to make out anything that might resemble the barrel of a rifle at the window?

Sounds like another 'trick of the light' 

Jeapes is the only officer who claims to have seen what "appears to be a rifle barrel" leaning against the window sill in the boxroom window.

She did not make this claim contemporaneously.  At the time she did not tell other officers at the White location that she sees what appears to be a rifle leaning against the window sill.  A month after the incident after viewing the photo she made this claim in her written statement. 

There are several issues to consider:

1) Since she said it appears to have bee the barrel of a rifle at most that means she wasn't sure what it was and just saw a stick like object that could be the barrel of a rifle or something else leaning there.

2) Maybe she didn't think anything of it at the time and only in retrospect did she think she might have seen a rifle barrel.  She saw the photo and incorrectly thought that was the window she had been looking at though it wasn't.  Maybe this gave her some false memory of seeing a stick like object in the window.  This false memory would explain why she didn't tell anyone at the time.  Just think about it.  The raid team was going inside wouldn't they want to know there might be a rifle leaning against the window so that in that room they could be extra careful of someone potentially trying to grab it?  So her failure to tell anyone casts doubt on her claim that she saw something. 

The only excuse she could really make for not telling anyone if she actually saw something at the time is that she didn't think it was a rifle barrel but rather thought it was something else.