Neville's burn marks (with the rifle). Who was most likely to inflict them ?

[guinness]

Well it was Neville's back.

Anyway, my answer is all in the thread post, and other posts.

its your opinion - nothing else . don't you think he would be rushing home to wash his clothes? rather than hanging around to burn his fathers back?

[adam]

its your opinion - nothing else . don't you think he would be rushing home to wash his clothes? rather than hanging around to burn his fathers back?

Yes, my opinion.

Well he did go back to his cottage, when he was ready. And checked that Neville was dead.

Bamber's checks would have likely been after the 6th, 7th  and 8th shots. As Neville had three burn marks.

Or Bamber may have shot him eight times and then burned him three times to check for signs of life.

[guinness]

burned him to check for signs of life ? Why did he not go back and burn the other victims then to check them?

[adam]

burned him to check for signs of life ? Why did he not go back and burn the other victims then to check them?

Well Neville had got downstairs and put up a massive fight for life. After receiving four upstairs shots. So it was sensible to check on him.

Sheila couldn't be checked as was the one who was supposed to have killed everyone.

Bamber must have been satisfied that June and the twins were dead. After his 15 shots into them.

[guinness]

So he went over and heated up a poker or the end of the gun just to check if he was still alive ?Interesting theory Adam . Interesting.

[adam]

How do think the burn marks got onto Neville's back ?

The Official Site says it was from the rifle without the silencer attached.

[Myster]

There may still be mileage in the red-hot casing theory, because not all burns result in a long rectangular shape. Pity there aren't more google images other than these few of rounder ones...

http://s37.photobucket.com/user/mugenef8/media/FIREARMS/Shooting/burn1.jpg.html

http://s37.photobucket.com/user/mugenef8/media/FIREARMS/Shooting/burn2.jpg.html

http://s874.photobucket.com/user/dbarrym/media/Misc%20for%20forums/IMG_3238sm.jpg.html

It need not have landed under the pyjama top directly either, but more likely could have rebounded off the red-painted AGA surround, or wall. Furthermore, the longer it remained trapped between pyjama and skin, which would be fitting with Nevill's beaten unresisting condition, the more prolonged and severe the burn(s).

[scipio_usmc]

There may still be mileage in the red-hot casing theory, because not all burns result in a long rectangular shape. Pity there aren't more google images other than these few of rounder ones...

http://s37.photobucket.com/user/mugenef8/media/FIREARMS/Shooting/burn1.jpg.html

http://s37.photobucket.com/user/mugenef8/media/FIREARMS/Shooting/burn2.jpg.html

http://s874.photobucket.com/user/dbarrym/media/Misc%20for%20forums/IMG_3238sm.jpg.html

It need not have landed under the pyjama top directly either, but more likely could have rebounded off the red-painted AGA surround, or wall. Furthermore, the longer it remained trapped between pyjama and skin, which would be fitting with Nevill's beaten unresisting condition, the more prolonged and severe the burn(s).

The round burns are usually caused when a rounded portion touches but most of the time it hits a side of the case.  I doubt that 3 of 4 would get under his pajamas especially since 2 shots were fired at a different angle than the other 2.

It really doesn't matter what caused them though the burns are not of any use to the case.

[Holly Goodhead]

There may still be mileage in the red-hot casing theory, because not all burns result in a long rectangular shape. Pity there aren't more google images other than these few of rounder ones...

http://s37.photobucket.com/user/mugenef8/media/FIREARMS/Shooting/burn1.jpg.html

http://s37.photobucket.com/user/mugenef8/media/FIREARMS/Shooting/burn2.jpg.html

http://s874.photobucket.com/user/dbarrym/media/Misc%20for%20forums/IMG_3238sm.jpg.html

It need not have landed under the pyjama top directly either, but more likely could have rebounded off the red-painted AGA surround, or wall. Furthermore, the longer it remained trapped between pyjama and skin, which would be fitting with Nevill's beaten unresisting condition, the more prolonged and severe the burn(s).

When CAL interviewed Malcolm Fletcher and Dr Vanezis they were unable to agree on the burns and neither of them mentioned/dismissed hot casings.

P193:

"Don't forget that we're seeing those marks after death, which dries the skin and makes it darker".

Still think hot casings are the most plausible explanation.  Where did you get the idea from Myster? 

[Holly Goodhead]

When I was checking out hot casings I stumbled across this? 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080602103331.htm

Do the casings still exist?  I think David said fingerprints on the bullets/casings were undetectable due to their small size.  Maybe more prints could be exposed on the rifle and magazine too using this method?

[Myster]

When CAL interviewed Malcolm Fletcher and Dr Vanezis they were unable to agree on the burns and neither of them mentioned/dismissed hot casings.

P193:

"Don't forget that we're seeing those marks after death, which dries the skin and makes it darker".

Still think hot casings are the most plausible explanation.  Where did you get the idea from Myster?

From seeing red-hot casings ejected in that YouTube video and wondering about their effect if they landed on someone standing close by. Then I saw a photo of Reeva Steenkamp's back which showed two similar marks, although I believe these were caused by hot bullet rather than a casing, which rebounded off a back wall but didn't penetrate her body.  Didn't realise burns were so common until you linked to examples in an earlier thread.

[Myster]

The 3 burn marks are so very different in size and shape, it beggars belief that they could all come from the end of the same round object... maybe the largest, yes... but for the other two, mmmm?  &%+((£

[scipio_usmc]

From seeing red-hot casings ejected in that YouTube video and wondering about their effect if they landed on someone standing close by. Then I saw a photo of Reeva Steenkamp's back which showed two similar marks, although I believe these were caused by hot bullet rather than a casing, which rebounded off a back wall but didn't penetrate her body.  Didn't realise burns were so common until you linked to examples in an earlier thread.

I have seen the burns close up the best description is a tattoo.

[Holly Goodhead]

The 3 burn marks are so very different in size and shape, it beggars belief that they could all come from the end of the same round object... maybe the largest, yes... but for the other two, mmmm?  &%+((£

I guess the only way to determine for sure would be to put it to specialists in burns/pathology/ballistics.

I bear in mind Dr V's comments re the marks appearing darker [accentuated] due to the surrounding pathology eg deceased, or nearly, when inflicted and photos taken at PM.

It makes no sense to me for JB or SC to have inflicted them deliberately.  Any reason one could think of could easily apply to the other victims so why single out NB?   

[scipio_usmc]

I guess the only way to determine for sure would be to put it to specialists in burns/pathology/ballistics.

I bear in mind Dr V's comments re the marks appearing darker [accentuated] due to the surrounding pathology eg deceased, or nearly, when inflicted and photos taken at PM.

It makes no sense to me for JB or SC to have inflicted them deliberately.  Any reason one could think of could easily apply to the other victims so why single out NB?

Maybe he wanted them to think she tortured him.  For all we know he set up the cushions and burned him to make it appear that she was sitting next to his body doing it.

It is hard to get inside the head of someone who is setting a frame.  They are setting the frame from their perspective of how they think things will be viewed.  How they think things will be viewed is not necessarily how they will be viewed though. Some things are obvious like placing the gun on top of Sheila we know why he did that.  Other things are far less clear.

If Jeremy admitted to Sheila he killed the personally and told her all the details we would not have so many questions.  But he didn't and he isn't likely to ever admit what he did and go over the details so we are never going to know.  It is far better to admit we will never know and just accept it than agonize.  Either way you end up in the same place but less content from the agony.