Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?

[Jean-Pierre]

Why bewildered Carana?  Do you not realise by now that Leonor was very easily manipulated both by her brother and by her lawyers.

Correia's involvement with Leonor only came after the Maddie disappearance and only after the McCanns employed Metodo 3.  Prior to this he had no interest in the case.

I agree Angelo that Leonor appears to be very easily manipulated by her brother and by others such as the police.  And by others such as Grade and Correia - who knows.

Carana - the sanction for an illegal adoption is relatively trivial in comparison with murder.  A quick example "It can be quite difficult to obtain accurate statistics concerning adoption fraud. However, below is a sample "603 adoptions were recorded by Greece's courts in 2005, an increase of 20 percent over the previous year, according to government statistics. But fewer than 60 of these adoptions were carried out through state channels",[3] meaning that in some regions of the world up to 90% of adoptions share the potential of being illegal." (source wkipedia - sorry).   So that is those what have come to the attention of the courts.   

[Angelo222]

I agree Angelo that Leonor appears to be very easily manipulated by her brother and by others such as the police.  And by others such as Grade and Correia - who knows.

Carana - the sanction for an illegal adoption is relatively trivial in comparison with murder.  A quick example "It can be quite difficult to obtain accurate statistics concerning adoption fraud. However, below is a sample "603 adoptions were recorded by Greece's courts in 2005, an increase of 20 percent over the previous year, according to government statistics. But fewer than 60 of these adoptions were carried out through state channels",[3] meaning that in some regions of the world up to 90% of adoptions share the potential of being illegal." (source wkipedia - sorry).   So that is those what have come to the attention of the courts.

My own belief is that it was her brother who hit Joana and Leonor is guilty by association oka joint enterprise.

[Carana]

I agree Angelo that Leonor appears to be very easily manipulated by her brother and by others such as the police.  And by others such as Grade and Correia - who knows.

Carana - the sanction for an illegal adoption is relatively trivial in comparison with murder.  A quick example "It can be quite difficult to obtain accurate statistics concerning adoption fraud. However, below is a sample "603 adoptions were recorded by Greece's courts in 2005, an increase of 20 percent over the previous year, according to government statistics. But fewer than 60 of these adoptions were carried out through state channels",[3] meaning that in some regions of the world up to 90% of adoptions share the potential of being illegal." (source wkipedia - sorry).   So that is those what have come to the attention of the courts.

Thanks, I did look into PT law on this at some point quite some time ago, but that's not why I'm bewildered...

[Eleanor]

No, it was John Grade.  Correia represented Leonor as a plaintiff at the PJ trial. 

I'm now going for a lie down in a darkened room!  %&5%£

Thank You.  So it was Grade who let her down and very ill defended her.

PS.  Can I join you in that darkened room?  My brain is having trouble with all of this bull shite.

Oh, and thanks for being honest.

[Carana]

My own belief is that it was her brother who hit Joana and Leonor is guilty by association.

Mine is slightly different.

On the whole, few people appear to have been particularly fond of João, and he does seem to have been the "black sheep" of the family.

I am aware that some studies show that some perps may have prior convictions for unrelated criminal activity - which is no doubt a good reason to thoroughly check them out in relation to a different one for elimination purposes.

That said, I can't find anything material aside from this bizarre "reconstruction" and his presence in the home that evening to link him to whatever happened to Joana.



 

[Carana]

Why bewildered Carana?  Do you not realise by now that Leonor was very easily manipulated both by her brother and by her lawyers.

Correia's involvement with Leonor only came after the Maddie disappearance and only after the McCanns employed Metodo 3.  Prior to this he had no interest in the case.

So you agree that Correia didn't influence the 2005 PJ disciplinary inquiry into the "slippery stairs" saga?

[Jean-Pierre]

My apologies, Correia only became interested in the case when according to him, he was asked by Metodo 3 to look into it. 
He ousted John Grade on the eve of the trial of the five PJ officers after secretly visiting Leonor Cipriano in Odemira Prison.

In a very "pro Amaral"  article dated 23rd October 2008 (the day before the trial opened" 24 horas wrote:

"Only days away from traveling to Faro court as a plaintiff, Leonor Cipriano changed her lawyer. She left João Grade in order to be represented by Marcos Aragão Correia – the lawyer who carried out searches in the Arade reservoir –in order to find the little English girl that disappeared from Aldeia da Luz, Maddie McCann. João Grade told 24Horas yesterday that he was informed through an email from his colleague that he no longer represented Leonor.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/10/cipriano-case-trial-of-pj-inspectors.html

And the mystery deepens - especially the events of 18th April 2008 and the business of Grades arrest ondrugs charges just after tabling the case against Amaral and his four mates on torture charges. 

Could there possibly be any connection? 

[Angelo222]

So you agree that Correia didn't influence the 2005 PJ disciplinary inquiry into the "slippery stairs" saga?

As far as we know Correia didn't involve himself until 2008.

[Carana]

Thank You.  So it was Grade who let her down and very ill defended her.

PS.  Can I join you in that darkened room?  My brain is having trouble with all of this bull shite.

Oh, and thanks for being honest.

The defence appears to have weak throughout.... there may be reasons that were beyond anyone's control such as a mundane lack of resources.

Whatever the reason (s), something doesn't appear right if a trial calling for maximum penalties only lasts 20 hours based on such flimsy evidence.

[Angelo222]

Joana Case: Cristóvão says that only the declaration of Leonor can lead to searches
 
by Paulo Marcelino
22 January 2009


Paulo Pereira Cristóvão, former inspector of the Judicial Police who investigated the death of Joana in 2004, wants the lawyer of Leonor Cipriano, mother of the girl convicted for her murder, along with her brother João, to "do the rest of the path" and that he [Marcos Aragão Correia] gets the revelation of the exact location where the corpse of the child is.

"Everyone would like Joana to have a decent funeral", said the former inspector to CM.
 
Cristóvão instigated the idea following the confession of Leonor, disclosed last Friday, in the Court of Faro, by her lawyer, Marcos Aragão Correia. According to Leonor, the daughter was buried "up there in the mountains of Figueira", after the deal of her sale failed, by João Cipriano, uncle of the eight years old girl.

"We will not launch a crusade with a shovel in the lands at northern Figueira", said the former inspector. "However if they suggest a place that was not yet a target of searches, the authorities must act", he concluded. In that sense, he asks to the lawyer of Leonor to complete the confession, ensuring that "She knows where the body is."
Aragão Correia answered: "If she knew, she would have said it. João is the one who knows".

www.mccannfiles.com/id203.html

[Eleanor]

The defence appears to have weak throughout.... there may be reasons that were beyond anyone's control such as a mundane lack of resources.

Whatever the reason (s), something doesn't appear right if a trial calling for maximum penalties only lasts 20 hours based on such flimsy evidence.

I wish I knew as much about the details as you do.  I only saw the peripheries, which were quite enough to make me wonder.
But why should a mundane lack of resourses have convicted anyone?  This alone is disgusting.

[Eleanor]

As far as we know Correia didn't involve himself until 2008.

I am really impressed by your honesty.  But then I never did think that you would be anything other than.

[Jean-Pierre]

Joana Case: Cristóvão says that only the declaration of Leonor can lead to searches
 
by Paulo Marcelino
22 January 2009


Paulo Pereira Cristóvão, former inspector of the Judicial Police who investigated the death of Joana in 2004, wants the lawyer of Leonor Cipriano, mother of the girl convicted for her murder, along with her brother João, to "do the rest of the path" and that he [Marcos Aragão Correia] gets the revelation of the exact location where the corpse of the child is.

"Everyone would like Joana to have a decent funeral", said the former inspector to CM.
 
Cristóvão instigated the idea following the confession of Leonor, disclosed last Friday, in the Court of Faro, by her lawyer, Marcos Aragão Correia. According to Leonor, the daughter was buried "up there in the mountains of Figueira", after the deal of her sale failed, by João Cipriano, uncle of the eight years old girl.

"We will not launch a crusade with a shovel in the lands at northern Figueira", said the former inspector. "However if they suggest a place that was not yet a target of searches, the authorities must act", he concluded. In that sense, he asks to the lawyer of Leonor to complete the confession, ensuring that "She knows where the body is."
Aragão Correia answered: "If she knew, she would have said it. João is the one who knows".

www.mccannfiles.com/id203.html

Thank your for this, Angelo.  This "Paulo Pereira Cristóvão" - name rings a bell but I cant place him.  What is he doing at the moment?

 and the link you provided is very interesting - António Cabrita made a complaint against Correia to his ethics committee midway through Amaral torture trial.  Very unprofessional tactics.

The fact remains that, despite your very obvious prejudice against Correia, he was a pretty good lawyer.   

[Eleanor]

Joana Case: Cristóvão says that only the declaration of Leonor can lead to searches
 
by Paulo Marcelino
22 January 2009


Paulo Pereira Cristóvão, former inspector of the Judicial Police who investigated the death of Joana in 2004, wants the lawyer of Leonor Cipriano, mother of the girl convicted for her murder, along with her brother João, to "do the rest of the path" and that he [Marcos Aragão Correia] gets the revelation of the exact location where the corpse of the child is.

"Everyone would like Joana to have a decent funeral", said the former inspector to CM.
 
Cristóvão instigated the idea following the confession of Leonor, disclosed last Friday, in the Court of Faro, by her lawyer, Marcos Aragão Correia. According to Leonor, the daughter was buried "up there in the mountains of Figueira", after the deal of her sale failed, by João Cipriano, uncle of the eight years old girl.

"We will not launch a crusade with a shovel in the lands at northern Figueira", said the former inspector. "However if they suggest a place that was not yet a target of searches, the authorities must act", he concluded. In that sense, he asks to the lawyer of Leonor to complete the confession, ensuring that "She knows where the body is."
Aragão Correia answered: "If she knew, she would have said it. João is the one who knows".

www.mccannfiles.com/id203.html

So how did Cristovao know anything about it?  What was he doing involving himself in a case that was nothing to do with him?

Yer.  And if she had known then she would have said, after the beating that she took.

I can only presume that her brother was a coward, although that is probably a bit unfair.

[Carana]

So how did Cristovao know anything about it?  What was he doing involving himself in a case that was nothing to do with him?

Yer.  And if she had known then she would have said, after the beating that she took.

I can only presume that her brother was a coward, although that is probably a bit unfair.

Cristovão was involved in the Cipriano case as he was one of the ones sent down by Lisbon... to lend a hand.