Author Topic: So what can Cadaver and CSI dogs tell us?  (Read 234797 times)

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Offline mercury

Re: So what can Cadaver and CSI dogs tell us?
« Reply #420 on: April 04, 2016, 10:36:03 PM »
Intelligence is not evidence (a distinction recognised by the courts).

Intelligence can lead to evidence.

Or intelligence can be dismissed entirely.

In PdL, at the point Mark Harrison (and even Grime) said no incriminating inference could be made from the reactions of the dogs, they ceased, even, to be 'intelligence'.

No they said no evidential value could be inferred, still intelligence though

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: So what can Cadaver and CSI dogs tell us?
« Reply #421 on: April 04, 2016, 10:39:10 PM »
No they said no evidential value could be inferred, still intelligence though

The point about intelligence is that it can lead to evidence.

Not a cat-in-hell's chance of that from the reactions of the dogs (at least from the shelved enquiry).  No clue about the second one ...

Offline mercury

Re: So what can Cadaver and CSI dogs tell us?
« Reply #422 on: April 04, 2016, 10:40:07 PM »
My apologies - I hadn't realised you were such a sensitive little flower.

If the dogs function is not to locate physical evidence maybe you had better tell Martin Grime.   8(8-))
Apology accepted though not asked for or required lol
Mr Grime, a South Yorkshire police employee at the time was brought in so nothing to do with him.
His dogs were not brought in to find remains....but to find remnant scent

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: So what can Cadaver and CSI dogs tell us?
« Reply #423 on: April 04, 2016, 10:40:46 PM »
Not goading, just a request, I do not wish to converse with a mnd and personality like yours, so tata, go play somewhere else

Last time I looked this was a forum which welcomes all views and shades of opinion.  Unfortunately for you this means you have to deal with irritating people who do not share your views. 

Sorry about that!

Offline mercury

Re: So what can Cadaver and CSI dogs tell us?
« Reply #424 on: April 04, 2016, 10:41:54 PM »
The point about intelligence is that it can lead to evidence.

Not a cat-in-hell's chance of that from the reactions of the dogs (at least from the shelved enquiry).  No clue about the second one ...

Nope, intelligence can be used in more ways than leading to physical evidence

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: So what can Cadaver and CSI dogs tell us?
« Reply #425 on: April 04, 2016, 10:46:17 PM »
Apology accepted though not asked for or required lol
Mr Grime, a South Yorkshire police employee at the time was brought in so nothing to do with him.
His dogs were not brought in to find remains....but to find remnant scent

Then why, in his profile, does he give his home address in Oxford as his base?

And since remnant scent is not acceptable as evidence in court, what would be the point of brining in dogs to detect something of no use in helping to solve a crime?

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: So what can Cadaver and CSI dogs tell us?
« Reply #426 on: April 04, 2016, 10:47:05 PM »
Nope, intelligence can be used in more ways than leading to physical evidence

Such as?

Offline Admin

Re: So what can Cadaver and CSI dogs tell us?
« Reply #427 on: April 04, 2016, 10:51:10 PM »
Members are again warned that posting offensive material will attract sanctions.

Admin

Offline mercury

Re: So what can Cadaver and CSI dogs tell us?
« Reply #428 on: April 04, 2016, 10:54:24 PM »
Then why, in his profile, does he give his home address in Oxford as his base?

And since remnant scent is not acceptable as evidence in court, what would be the point of brining in dogs to detect something of no use in helping to solve a crime?

Ask harrison who you seem to respect, hes the one who suggested the cadVer dog be brought in

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: So what can Cadaver and CSI dogs tell us?
« Reply #429 on: April 04, 2016, 10:59:49 PM »
Ask harrison who you seem to respect, hes the one who suggested the cadVer dog be brought in

Yes - to see if physical evidence can be found.  Why do you think the dogs alerts are not admissible in court?

Offline mercury

Re: So what can Cadaver and CSI dogs tell us?
« Reply #430 on: April 04, 2016, 11:02:32 PM »
Yes - to see if physical evidence can be found.  Why do you think the dogs alerts are not admissible in court?

Do you think it was possible Madeleines "physical remains" were in 5a and no police noticed?


ferryman

  • Guest
Re: So what can Cadaver and CSI dogs tell us?
« Reply #431 on: April 04, 2016, 11:08:19 PM »
Ask harrison who you seem to respect, hes the one who suggested the cadVer dog be brought in

Harrison appeared to believe the dogs might have been useful in helping to solve a crime.

Theoretically, they might have been.

In practice, they weren't.

It seems likely the different dogs brought in to assist the second enquiry weren't, either.

But I don't think there was anything controversial about the deployment of the dogs in the second enquiry ....

Offline mercury

Re: So what can Cadaver and CSI dogs tell us?
« Reply #432 on: April 04, 2016, 11:15:39 PM »
Harrison appeared to believe the dogs might have been useful in helping to solve a crime.

Theoretically, they might have been.

In practice, they weren't.

It seems likely the different dogs brought in to assist the second enquiry weren't, either.

But I don't think there was anything controversial about the deployment of the dogs in the second enquiry ....

Harrison didnt "appear" to be anything...he was involved in the dogs initial training..he knew what he was talking about 100%


stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: So what can Cadaver and CSI dogs tell us?
« Reply #433 on: April 05, 2016, 09:01:17 AM »
Thank you Stephen - much appreciated. 
.  The report said that a small amount of the sample was combusted as a way of measuring the nitrogen content.

Thank you Stephen.

Coconut shells are made from cellulose, just as wood is, but there is debate as to whether it is classifiable as wood. It is used as a substitute for wood.

The Nitrogen content from the sample is close to that expected for wood, but as the sample had been exposed to heat already and consequently partially decomposed, I would expect, no pun intended, for some loss of compounds such as Nitrogen oxides, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, etc., which could underestimate the original nitrogen content.               

I haven't had time to read through all the material yet as regards the analysis, but I would like to know if any other analytical techniques were applied to the material, e.g. possibly a scanning electron microscope could reveal structure.

As I said, 1 test by itself is insufficient.

e.g. Have you heard of the Turin Shroud, which allegedly has the imprint of Jesus in his alleged burial cloth. A sample of the material was Carbon dated to be, by recollection, approx 700 years old, which would make it a fake. However, analysis of the fibre revealed it to be typical of the material found in the Middle East 2000 years ago, and as far as I know , the Vatican, where the shroud is kept, have not allowed further testing.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: So what can Cadaver and CSI dogs tell us?
« Reply #434 on: April 05, 2016, 09:29:00 AM »
Coconut shells are made from cellulose, just as wood is, but there is debate as to whether it is classifiable as wood. It is used as a substitute for wood.

The Nitrogen content from the sample is close to that expected for wood, but as the sample had been exposed to heat already and consequently partially decomposed, I would expect, no pun intended, for some loss of compounds such as Nitrogen oxides, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, etc., which could underestimate the original nitrogen content.               

I haven't had time to read through all the material yet as regards the analysis, but I would like to know if any other analytical techniques were applied to the material, e.g. possibly a scanning electron microscope could reveal structure.

As I said, 1 test by itself is insufficient.

e.g. Have you heard of the Turin Shroud, which allegedly has the imprint of Jesus in his alleged burial cloth. A sample of the material was Carbon dated to be, by recollection, approx 700 years old, which would make it a fake. However, analysis of the fibre revealed it to be typical of the material found in the Middle East 2000 years ago, and as far as I know , the Vatican, where the shroud is kept, have not allowed further testing.

why would you need an electron microscope...obviously your knowledge of biology is not as good as you think. Bone cells can be viewed clearly at 300 * mag....an electron microscope can reach 500,000 mag..

what's the shroud got to do with anything
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 09:31:02 AM by davel »