Why don't people believe the Mccanns story of Abduction ?

[G-Unit]

McCanns leave apartment
Jane passes apartment
Matt/Rachel passes apartment
Russ passes apartment
Paynes/Webster passes apartment
Matt passes apartment twice

7 from 8:30 to 9

Gerry goes to apartment
Jane passes apartment twice
Russ/Matt passes apartment
Matt goes into apartment

5 from 9 to 9:30

Jane passes apartment
Russ passes apartment
Kate goes to apartment

3 from 9:35 to alarm raised time

It works out on average that every 5 or 6 minutes somebody from the group went inside or passed that apartment.

Then you have Jez Wilkins who left his apartment at 8.30pm and returned at 9.30pm. He saw a couple from Block 6 at some point going to dinner, they probably passed G5A on their way out. The Moyes returned to Block 5 at around 9.15pm but saw no-one. Crecheman was around at 9.15pm. A couple who worked for MW drove past at some point after the man mended a lock up by the Millenium. The head chef drove from the Millenium to the Tapas at  21.10 and returned at 21.40. Did all those in Block 4 stay indoors that evening? We don't know.

[mercury]

The only person who knows why the window was opened is the person who opened it or who left it unlocked.  The only person who knows the reason for the shutter being raised is the person who raised it.
CORRECT but could have been the mother or father! No evidence it wasn't... and no evidence it was ever opened before the so called alarm
It is easy to work out why a mother would immediately jump to the conclusion her child had been kidnapped on finding the window open and the child missing.
NOT REALLY in this case
A more professionally conducted investigation would have ascertained the rights and wrongs of the situation taking that natural concern into consideration. RUBBISH
There was little chance of that given the weird interpretation put on the request for a priest.

[Brietta]

The only person who knows why the window was opened is the person who opened it or who left it unlocked.  The only person who knows the reason for the shutter being raised is the person who raised it.

CORRECT but could have been the mother or father! No evidence it wasn't... and no evidence it was ever opened before the so called alarm

It is easy to work out why a mother would immediately jump to the conclusion her child had been kidnapped on finding the window open and the child missing.

NOT REALLY in this case

A more professionally conducted investigation would have ascertained the rights and wrongs of the situation taking that natural concern into consideration. RUBBISH
There was little chance of that given the weird interpretation put on the request for a priest.

Probably one of the main reasons there are those whose antipathy towards the Drs McCann allow them to disbelieve every and any statement which comes out of their mouths, with one or two notable exceptions is revealed in your response.

If you walked into your child's room found her missing from there and not anywhere on the premises with the window you knew had been closed and the shutter raised which you thought was a security shutter and locked ... it would be fine for you or any other parent to suspect the worst.
However "NOT REALLY in this case".

Why "this case" particularly ? ? ? ?

[G-Unit]

Probably one of the main reasons there are those whose antipathy towards the Drs McCann allow them to disbelieve every and any statement which comes out of their mouths, with one or two notable exceptions is revealed in your response.

If you walked into your child's room found her missing from there and not anywhere on the premises with the window you knew had been closed and the shutter raised which you thought was a security shutter and locked ... it would be fine for you or any other parent to suspect the worst.
However "NOT REALLY in this case".

Why "this case" particularly ? ? ? ?

That statement makes sense. In the Madeleine Mccann case it only applies if the window and shutters were actually open. There is no independent evidence that they were. Therefore it cannot be stated as if it was a fact.

[Eleanor]

That statement makes sense. In the Madeleine Mccann case it only applies if the window and shutters were actually open. There is no independent evidence that they were. Therefore it cannot be stated as if it was a fact.

It can be stated as a fact by the people involved.  Or do you have proof that Kate was not being truthful?

[sadie]

That statement makes sense. In the Madeleine Mccann case it only applies if the window and shutters were actually open. There is no independent evidence that they were. Therefore it cannot be stated as if it was a fact.

Is there any independant evidence that Ben Leadhams Gran and Gramp were at the house when he vanished??

Cos if not are you also prepared to say that "NOT in that case either?"  No evidence.


Same with most abduction cases.  There is rarely anyone who witnesses anything.



Come on Mercury , admit it.

Admit that you have it in for The Mccanns.

[Alfred R Jones]

No-one is doubting that the police can create a timeline from the times given. I can do that myself. What neither the T9 nor the police can do is prove that those times are correct, unless witnesses unconnected with the group saw them at the times given. Six of the group said on 4th May the alarm was raised at 10pm. Six witnesses suggested it was raised earlier. Who's right?

I thought you told us earlier that all nine of the McCann group "collaborated" to give a time of 10pm for the alarm?  Now only 6?  So who wasn't playing ball in this collaboration?

[stephen25000]

It can be stated as a fact by the people involved.  Or do you have proof that Kate was not being truthful?

There is no proof she has.

Why should anyone believe her account.

After what she and her husband did.

[Mr Gray]

There is no proof she has.

Why should anyone believe her account.

After what she and her husband did.

SY believe her and that is what matters

[Benice]

There is no proof she has.

Why should anyone believe her account.

After what she and her husband did.

So according to you all the hundreds of thousands (in fact probably millions by now) of parents  who - whilst on holiday decided to leave their  children asleep in their rooms and went off  to dinner, relying on a baby alarm or in the knowledge that they would be checked on regularly  -  cannot be relied upon to be truthful people?

What sort of logic is that conclusion based on?  Please elaborate.

[G-Unit]

I thought you told us earlier that all nine of the McCann group "collaborated" to give a time of 10pm for the alarm?  Now only 6?  So who wasn't playing ball in this collaboration?

Jane wasn't there. Fiona and Dianne mentioned no time on 4th May. Dianne had caught up in her second interview and gave 10pm. Fiona gave 9.45 to 10pm in her Rog. interview. Of the group, the Paynes/Webster gave very few times in any of their statements.

In the second interviews Gerry's time was now 10.13pm. Russell stayed with 10pm, Matthew and Rachael had moved the time to slightly before 10pm. (9.50 Matt, 9.55-10 Rachael). There's now a difference of around 20 minutes between Matt and Gerry.

[stephen25000]

So according to you all the hundreds of thousands (in fact probably millions by now) of parents  who - whilst on holiday decided to leave their  children asleep in their rooms and went off  to dinner, relying on a baby alarm or in the knowledge that they would be checked on regularly  -  cannot be relied upon to be truthful people?

What sort of logic is that conclusion based on?  Please elaborate.

AND HOW MANY OF THESE PEOPLE LEFT THEIR CHILDREN FOR HOURS ON END IN UNLOCKED ACCOMMODATION, WHILST THEY WINED AND DINED WITH FRIENDS ?

and I'm not angry.

Just making the point you always want to ignore.

[Benice]

AND HOW MANY OF THESE PEOPLE LEFT THEIR CHILDREN FOR HOURS ON END IN UNLOCKED ACCOMMODATION, WHILST THEY WINED AND DINED WITH FRIENDS ?

and I'm not angry.

Just making the point you always want to ignore.

No need to shout.

Anyone who thinks that no other parent has ever left their children asleep in their apartment etc and either by accident or design have not locked the door or left a window open or left the key under the mat  - is not living in the real world IMO.  Neither are those who think that no other parent has ever wined and dined with friends whilst on holiday. 

Your constant attempts to isolate the McCanns and present them as the only parents who have ever done what in reality hundreds of thousands of other parents have been doing for decades  - and some of which are still doing  - makes no sense to me - as it involves pretending that those hundreds of thousands of other parents don't exist.   And anyone who believes that is deluding themselves big time IMO.

[stephen25000]

No need to shout.

Anyone who thinks that no other parent has ever left their children asleep in their apartment etc and either by accident or design have not locked the door or left a window open or left the key under the mat  - is not living in the real world IMO.  Neither are those who think that no other parent has ever wined and dined with friends whilst on holiday. 

Your constant attempts to isolate the McCanns and present them as the only parents who have ever done what in reality hundreds of thousands of other parents have been doing for decades  - and some of which are still doing  - makes no sense to me - as it involves pretending that those hundreds of thousands of other parents don't exist.   And anyone who believes that is deluding themselves big time IMO.

I wasn't shouting.

So can you provide cited figures as to how many people have done exactly the same as the mccanns ?

and then perhaps, give figures for how many people have never done what they did.

[Eleanor]

There is no proof she has.

Why should anyone believe her account.

After what she and her husband did.

I don't suppose she cares all that much what you think, Stephen.  The difference is that she doesn't have to prove it.