Author Topic: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?  (Read 292089 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #300 on: March 02, 2016, 06:10:44 PM »
I find it strange that those who have praised and supported the Metropolitan Police, Operation Grange and DCI Redwood are so reluctant to accept what he said on the Crimewatch Programme in 2013.

Was Redwood being economical with the truth about the e-fits which, he said, were now 'the centre of his focus'? the e-fits of a man seen 'walking towards the sea' which 'have never been in the public domain before' and which were produced by two of the witnesses who saw that man?
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Offline blonk

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #301 on: March 02, 2016, 06:40:00 PM »
Totally agree with blink on this occasion
I've been 'blank', 'bonk' and 'bonkers' on this forum so far.

Now 'blink'.

I'm bunking off now.

Name's 'blonk' by the way

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #302 on: March 02, 2016, 06:47:13 PM »
I've been 'blank', 'bonk' and 'bonkers' on this forum so far.

Now 'blink'.

I'm bunking off now.

Name's 'blonk' by the way
James Blonk?

Offline jassi

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #303 on: March 02, 2016, 06:53:38 PM »
Yes, the name's Blonk, James Blonk.
 Has a certain style, don't you think?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Eleanor

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #304 on: March 02, 2016, 06:59:07 PM »

Okay.  Enough of that.  Please be respectful to other Posters.

Offline Brietta

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #305 on: March 02, 2016, 07:05:24 PM »
If Scotland Yard wished to review the Smith family evidence in my opinion it would be to dot the i's and cross the t's of exactly what they had witnessed.
I doubt very much if they would have requested any further facial identification details ... unless they have been reading different files than those to which we have access.

I think any notion that the Smith family had any input to efits is a red herring. 
Despite months of exposure to seeing Dr Gerry McCann's face from all angles in photographs and moving pictures it was not the features he thought he recognised, but the way he was holding his son.

There is no information of a meeting with Scotland Yard and the Smith family.  Just as there is no written or video statement recording the realisation of his mistaken identification of Madeleine's father.
However I am sure he is not a stupid man and his and his wife's supportive statements for Madeleine and her family would tend to indicate his opinion has indeed changed.

The Smith family may have been unable to assist with efits ... but other witnesses were not and had already provided contemporaneous examples.

Reading of James Murray's article gives a slightly different 'take' on the one which cost the Sunday Times a substantial contribution to Madeleine's fund.




New photo clue to Madeleine McCann case

DETECTIVES are using the latest computer technology to try to create a new image of a “prime suspect” who might have been involved in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

By JAMES MURRAY
PUBLISHED: 00:00, Sun, Mar 11, 2012

They are also working on a “computerised reconstruction” of the night she disappeared by putting thousands of pieces of information into the police Holmes computer.

The developments come at a ­significant time with the Policia Judiciaria in Portugal announcing it has a cold case team working on the investigation in Porto, north Portugal.

The Portuguese officers will work closely with the Scotland Yard detectives and will have “primacy” in the investigation.

The Sunday Express understands the Yard team have been examining all photofits, e-fits and drawings of people suspected of being involved in the disappearance of three-year-old Madeleine from an apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz on May 3, 2007.
One of the best known drawings was based on a description given by a friend of Madeleine’s parents, Gerry and Kate.
Jane Tanner claimed she saw a man carrying a child in his arms but did not get a good look at his face.

Other images were created from witnesses who saw people acting suspiciously in the vicinity around the time of the crime.

Irishman Martin Smith and members of his family saw a man carrying a child in his arms at about 10pm, about 45 minutes after the Tanner sighting.

However, he was not asked to help produce a photofit.

The Met refuses to discuss the details but it is expected that officers will approach Mr Smith and his family for help.

Yard experts are looking at ways of improving the images to end with one pristine likeness of the “suspect”.

Officers are using the Home Office Large Major Enquiry System for computer logging of all relevant information and have tailored it to help create what is described as a “computer reconstruction” of the key events of the night of May 3.

It is hoped that eventually there will be an almost minute by minute account, which will assist officers.

The Yard launched its review last year after Kate and Gerry McCann appealed directly to David Cameron.
Officers have visited Portugal several times and are said to have a good relationship with their Portuguese counterparts.
PJ deputy chief Pedro do Carmo said: ‘‘The Porto team is very experienced in these cases.”

Kate and Gerry, of Rothley, Leicestershire, hope the review will lead to a full scale reopening of the case.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/307369/New-photo-clue-to-Madeleine-McCann-case
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #306 on: March 02, 2016, 07:15:12 PM »
If Scotland Yard wished to review the Smith family evidence in my opinion it would be to dot the i's and cross the t's of exactly what they had witnessed.
I doubt very much if they would have requested any further facial identification details ... unless they have been reading different files than those to which we have access.

I think any notion that the Smith family had any input to efits is a red herring. 
Despite months of exposure to seeing Dr Gerry McCann's face from all angles in photographs and moving pictures it was not the features he thought he recognised, but the way he was holding his son.

There is no information of a meeting with Scotland Yard and the Smith family.  Just as there is no written or video statement recording the realisation of his mistaken identification of Madeleine's father.
However I am sure he is not a stupid man and his and his wife's supportive statements for Madeleine and her family would tend to indicate his opinion has indeed changed.

The Smith family may have been unable to assist with efits ... but other witnesses were not and had already provided contemporaneous examples.

Reading of James Murray's article gives a slightly different 'take' on the one which cost the Sunday Times a substantial contribution to Madeleine's fund.




New photo clue to Madeleine McCann case

DETECTIVES are using the latest computer technology to try to create a new image of a “prime suspect” who might have been involved in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

By JAMES MURRAY
PUBLISHED: 00:00, Sun, Mar 11, 2012

They are also working on a “computerised reconstruction” of the night she disappeared by putting thousands of pieces of information into the police Holmes computer.

The developments come at a ­significant time with the Policia Judiciaria in Portugal announcing it has a cold case team working on the investigation in Porto, north Portugal.

The Portuguese officers will work closely with the Scotland Yard detectives and will have “primacy” in the investigation.

The Sunday Express understands the Yard team have been examining all photofits, e-fits and drawings of people suspected of being involved in the disappearance of three-year-old Madeleine from an apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz on May 3, 2007.
One of the best known drawings was based on a description given by a friend of Madeleine’s parents, Gerry and Kate.
Jane Tanner claimed she saw a man carrying a child in his arms but did not get a good look at his face.

Other images were created from witnesses who saw people acting suspiciously in the vicinity around the time of the crime.

Irishman Martin Smith and members of his family saw a man carrying a child in his arms at about 10pm, about 45 minutes after the Tanner sighting.

However, he was not asked to help produce a photofit.

The Met refuses to discuss the details but it is expected that officers will approach Mr Smith and his family for help.

Yard experts are looking at ways of improving the images to end with one pristine likeness of the “suspect”.

Officers are using the Home Office Large Major Enquiry System for computer logging of all relevant information and have tailored it to help create what is described as a “computer reconstruction” of the key events of the night of May 3.

It is hoped that eventually there will be an almost minute by minute account, which will assist officers.

The Yard launched its review last year after Kate and Gerry McCann appealed directly to David Cameron.
Officers have visited Portugal several times and are said to have a good relationship with their Portuguese counterparts.
PJ deputy chief Pedro do Carmo said: ‘‘The Porto team is very experienced in these cases.”

Kate and Gerry, of Rothley, Leicestershire, hope the review will lead to a full scale reopening of the case.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/307369/New-photo-clue-to-Madeleine-McCann-case

Disagree.

I don't think you can really take anything (much) as 'read' from statements taken in reported rather than verbatim form.

I think the efits were produced, one by Martin, the other by his wife, Mary ....

Offline Carana

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #307 on: March 02, 2016, 07:17:42 PM »
Disagree.

I don't think you can really take anything (much) as 'read' from statements taken in reported rather than verbatim form.

I think the efits were produced, one by Martin, the other by his wife, Mary ....

I'm not sure who produced those efits. All a bit vague, IMO.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #308 on: March 02, 2016, 07:37:51 PM »
Disagree.

I don't think you can really take anything (much) as 'read' from statements taken in reported rather than verbatim form.

I think the efits were produced, one by Martin, the other by his wife, Mary ....

Well, according to the 'professionals';

It was here at 10pm that an Irish family witnessed another man carrying a child. They saw him come down the hill from the direction of the Ocean Club heading that way towards the beach.

Two of the witnesses helped create e-fits of the man they saw.

The e-fits are clear and I’d ask the public to look very carefully at them. If they know who this person is, please come forward.

Well at 10pm, we can see a man walking down towards the sea. A white man in his thirties with brown hair, and in his arms is a child three to four years of age, blonde hair, wearing pyjamas very close description to that of Madeleine McCann.

Two e-fits that have never been in the public domain of this one individual. Really important for us to understand who he is.

Crimewatch 2013
Transcript by
https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2015/09/30/madeleine-crimewatch-2013-english-transcript-pt-44/
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ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #309 on: March 02, 2016, 07:40:00 PM »
Well, according to the 'professionals';

It was here at 10pm that an Irish family witnessed another man carrying a child. They saw him come down the hill from the direction of the Ocean Club heading that way towards the beach.

Two of the witnesses helped create e-fits of the man they saw.

The e-fits are clear and I’d ask the public to look very carefully at them. If they know who this person is, please come forward.

Well at 10pm, we can see a man walking down towards the sea. A white man in his thirties with brown hair, and in his arms is a child three to four years of age, blonde hair, wearing pyjamas very close description to that of Madeleine McCann.

Two e-fits that have never been in the public domain of this one individual. Really important for us to understand who he is.

Crimewatch 2013
Transcript by
https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2015/09/30/madeleine-crimewatch-2013-english-transcript-pt-44/

Unsure why you have put the word professionals in speechmarks?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #310 on: March 02, 2016, 08:23:40 PM »
Unsure why you have put the word professionals in speechmarks?

it's not my opinion. It has been used repeatedly by others on the forum to describe the Met police. That's why I'm surprised that they are now choosing to cast doubt on the veracity of what DCI Redwood said.
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ferryman

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Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #311 on: March 02, 2016, 08:42:28 PM »
it's not my opinion. It has been used repeatedly by others on the forum to describe the Met police. That's why I'm surprised that they are now choosing to cast doubt on the veracity of what DCI Redwood said.

What's not your opinion?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #312 on: March 02, 2016, 09:06:32 PM »
nevertheless
What's not your opinion?

That the Met are 'the professionals', particularly as the word has often been used as an attempt to highlight the perceived failings of the PJ. Some on here have persistently praised the Met and now are refusing to believe what Redwood has told them.
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Offline misty

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #313 on: March 02, 2016, 09:25:32 PM »
nevertheless
That the Met are 'the professionals', particularly as the word has often been used as an attempt to highlight the perceived failings of the PJ. Some on here have persistently praised the Met and now are refusing to believe what Redwood has told them.

Maybe SY were actually requesting help at the behest of the lead investigation team? Positively identifying Smithman would certainly add weight to the evidence they already have.

Offline blonk

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #314 on: March 02, 2016, 09:48:50 PM »
Was Redwood being economical with the truth about the e-fits which, he said, were now 'the centre of his focus'? the e-fits of a man seen 'walking towards the sea' which 'have never been in the public domain before' and which were produced by two of the witnesses who saw that man?
@ G-Unit    One point we have to weigh up in our minds here is whether this (Operation Grange) was ever a genuine investigation to seek the truth to begin with. It certainly had a strictly limited remit.

A few weeks ago I expressed the view on this forum that Grange was NOT a genuine search for the truth. I was then pressed by several people to explain why. I did so. I gave 10 specific reasons. Or may be it was 12. There were a lot.

I mentioned last week that there would be a Panorama programme on Metropolitan Police corruption on Monday. Here is the link to it, I think it is available on BBC i-player for another 28 days: 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b072s2r5/panorama-cops-criminals-corruption-the-inside-story

It has to be watched to see how dirty and corrupt the Met Police is capable of being, and at a very senior level. One example was the fate of Det Chief Insp Dave McKelvie. When he stumbled on a ring of scrap metal thieves in Newham, connected to one of Britain's most notorious drugs lords, and successfully charged three of the ringleaders, senior Met officers hounded him out of the force by trumped-up charges that He was corrupt. The depth to which senior Met Officers can sink to in order to defend their corrupt relationships with major criminals is exposed in the programme. Knowing the capabilities of these corrupt police officers, some of them would do almost anything for money and promotion.