Author Topic: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?  (Read 292158 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #330 on: March 03, 2016, 02:14:15 PM »

We are probably not too far apart on this.

However, dealing with your point above, bolded, you used the word 'allegedly' and I think that was a wise choice of word.

This allegedly hypercritical report was from Henri Exton.

We know this about him. He was the former Head of the Covert Intelligence for MI5. He also shoplifted a bottle of expensive perfume from Manchester Airport, was convicted after pleading guilty, but then had his conviction set aside. From what we have been told many times, Exton was recruited to the McCann Investigation Team by the corrupt fraudster, con-man and crook Kevin Halligen. Therefore to take ANYTHING which emerges from Exton's mouth as gospel would be very unwise.

Moreover, again from what we learn in dribs and drabs (see, e.g. the 2014 Channel 5 film featuring Halligen and Exton), Halligen didn't pay Exton for his work. Possibly the McCanns didn't pay him properly either. In which case, he would have a very sharp axe to grind and a motive for 'dropping Halligen and Exton right in it'.

To summarise my position on the efits in 8 words:  'They are not what they purport to me'. To which I would add these 5:  'Redwood and Wall know this'.

@ Carana asked (I paraphrase): "What has evidence of widespread senior level corruption in the Met got to do with Operation Grange?"

REPLY: Everything. If people right at the top of the Met are capable of the wicked things shown in the Panorama programme, and much, much more than that, then they are also, prima facie, well capable of conducting a hoax investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance.

Are the Policia Judicairia in on it too ... or are they being taken for mugs like the rest of us along with the Home Secretary and the PM?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #331 on: March 03, 2016, 02:40:40 PM »

We are probably not too far apart on this.

However, dealing with your point above, bolded, you used the word 'allegedly' and I think that was a wise choice of word.

This allegedly hypercritical report was from Henri Exton.

We know this about him. He was the former Head of the Covert Intelligence for MI5. He also shoplifted a bottle of expensive perfume from Manchester Airport, was convicted after pleading guilty, but then had his conviction set aside. From what we have been told many times, Exton was recruited to the McCann Investigation Team by the corrupt fraudster, con-man and crook Kevin Halligen. Therefore to take ANYTHING which emerges from Exton's mouth as gospel would be very unwise.

Moreover, again from what we learn in dribs and drabs (see, e.g. the 2014 Channel 5 film featuring Halligen and Exton), Halligen didn't pay Exton for his work. Possibly the McCanns didn't pay him properly either. In which case, he would have a very sharp axe to grind and a motive for 'dropping Halligen and Exton right in it'.

To summarise my position on the efits in 8 words:  'They are not what they purport to me'. To which I would add these 5:  'Redwood and Wall know this'.

@ Carana asked (I paraphrase): "What has evidence of widespread senior level corruption in the Met got to do with Operation Grange?"

REPLY: Everything. If people right at the top of the Met are capable of the wicked things shown in the Panorama programme, and much, much more than that, then they are also, prima facie, well capable of conducting a hoax investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance.

If I were to say that acknowledged thugs (*formerly of the PJ) such as Cristovia (sp), Amaral or convicted torturer Ameidas (so far as I am aware, still serving with the PJ) should be likened in the same bracket as PJ Inspector Dias, or Inspector Ferraria (who justly dismissed the testimony of English social worker Yvonne Martin), I could/would (justly) be accused of xenophobia.

To be clear, I make no such allegation or comparison.

I do say that certain elements of the PJ (from the shelved enquiry) made a total pig's-ear of the forensic results, with little or no excuse (they were surrounded by people, including representatives of their own ,Portuguese, forensic laboratory, who understood the forensic results, and would have been only too willing to explain them, if asked, but they never were).

I think sensible Portuguese citizens who post on this board see it much the same.

There is corruption in the English police force.

There is corruption in the police forces of Britain.

Police forces in countries throughout the world (including Portugal!) have corrupt police officers.

None of that is xenophobic.

It is just plain statement of fact.

It is, itself, xenophobic, to accuse those (of us!) who point out that fact of xenophobia

*Edited to amend formally with formerly.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 05:26:48 PM by ferryman »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #332 on: March 03, 2016, 02:41:49 PM »

We are probably not too far apart on this.

However, dealing with your point above, bolded, you used the word 'allegedly' and I think that was a wise choice of word.

This allegedly hypercritical report was from Henri Exton.

We know this about him. He was the former Head of the Covert Intelligence for MI5. He also shoplifted a bottle of expensive perfume from Manchester Airport, was convicted after pleading guilty, but then had his conviction set aside. From what we have been told many times, Exton was recruited to the McCann Investigation Team by the corrupt fraudster, con-man and crook Kevin Halligen. Therefore to take ANYTHING which emerges from Exton's mouth as gospel would be very unwise.

Moreover, again from what we learn in dribs and drabs (see, e.g. the 2014 Channel 5 film featuring Halligen and Exton), Halligen didn't pay Exton for his work. Possibly the McCanns didn't pay him properly either. In which case, he would have a very sharp axe to grind and a motive for 'dropping Halligen and Exton right in it'.

To summarise my position on the efits in 8 words:  'They are not what they purport to me'. To which I would add these 5:  'Redwood and Wall know this'.

@ Carana asked (I paraphrase): "What has evidence of widespread senior level corruption in the Met got to do with Operation Grange?"

REPLY: Everything. If people right at the top of the Met are capable of the wicked things shown in the Panorama programme, and much, much more than that, then they are also, prima facie, well capable of conducting a hoax investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance.


The report was seen by the Sunday Times. They said;

The report, seen by the Sunday Times, called for the E-Fits to be released immediately and said "anomalies" in statements by the McCanns and their friends must be resolved......

Their report, seen by The Sunday Times, focused on a sighting by an Irish family of a man carrying a child at about 10pm on May 3, 2007, when Madeleine went missing.

An earlier sighting by one of the McCanns’ friends was dismissed as less credible after “serious inconsistencies” were found in her evidence. The report also raised questions about “anomalies” in the statements given by the McCanns and their friends.....

they [the Oakley team] focused on the Smith sighting, travelling to Ireland to interview the family and produce E-Fits of the man they saw. Their report said the Smiths were “helpful and sincere” and concluded: “The Smith sighting is credible evidence of a sighting of Maddie and more credible than Jane Tanner’s sighting”. The evidence had been “neglected for too long” and an “overemphasis placed on Tanner”.

The new focus shifted the believed timeline of the abduction back by 45 minutes. The report, delivered to the McCanns in November 2008, recommended that the revised timeline should be the basis for future investigations and that the Smith E-Fits should be released without delay......

As well as questioning parts of the McCanns’ evidence, it contained sensitive information about Madeleine’s sleeping patterns and raised the highly sensitive possibility that she could have died in an accident after leaving the apartment herself from one of two unsecured doors.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/78oct13/Times_27_10_2013.htm


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ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #333 on: March 03, 2016, 02:48:07 PM »


The report was seen by the Sunday Times. They said;

The report, seen by the Sunday Times, called for the E-Fits to be released immediately and said "anomalies" in statements by the McCanns and their friends must be resolved......

Their report, seen by The Sunday Times, focused on a sighting by an Irish family of a man carrying a child at about 10pm on May 3, 2007, when Madeleine went missing.

An earlier sighting by one of the McCanns’ friends was dismissed as less credible after “serious inconsistencies” were found in her evidence. The report also raised questions about “anomalies” in the statements given by the McCanns and their friends.....

they [the Oakley team] focused on the Smith sighting, travelling to Ireland to interview the family and produce E-Fits of the man they saw. Their report said the Smiths were “helpful and sincere” and concluded: “The Smith sighting is credible evidence of a sighting of Maddie and more credible than Jane Tanner’s sighting”. The evidence had been “neglected for too long” and an “overemphasis placed on Tanner”.

The new focus shifted the believed timeline of the abduction back by 45 minutes. The report, delivered to the McCanns in November 2008, recommended that the revised timeline should be the basis for future investigations and that the Smith E-Fits should be released without delay......

As well as questioning parts of the McCanns’ evidence, it contained sensitive information about Madeleine’s sleeping patterns and raised the highly sensitive possibility that she could have died in an accident after leaving the apartment herself from one of two unsecured doors.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/78oct13/Times_27_10_2013.htm

The reason why the e-fits could not see light of day in public until there was a live and on-going police enquiry has been explained, over and over ....

The facts don't change just because some people choose not to accept them.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #334 on: March 03, 2016, 02:59:48 PM »
The reason why the e-fits could not see light of day in public until there was a live and on-going police enquiry has been explained, over and over ....

The facts don't change just because some people choose not to accept them.

There was nothing stopping the McCanns from releasing the e-fits when they got them. That's a fact for you.

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ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #335 on: March 03, 2016, 03:01:18 PM »
There was nothing stopping the McCanns from releasing the e-fits when they got them. That's a fact for you.

No it's not.

It's a poorly formulated opinion.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #336 on: March 03, 2016, 03:06:57 PM »
A challenge (to anyone who would choose to accept it).

Obviously there won't be any examples in Portuguese police investigations, because the Portuguese do not use e-fits in their criminal enquiries.

But from English police investigations, find an example of where an efit was released of a suspect before an official police enquiry was launched.

Offline pegasus

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #337 on: March 03, 2016, 03:43:10 PM »
A challenge (to anyone who would choose to accept it).

Obviously there won't be any examples in Portuguese police investigations, because the Portuguese do not use e-fits in their criminal enquiries.

But from English police investigations, find an example of where an efit was released of a suspect before an official police enquiry was launched.
Your challenge is extremely easy Ferryman
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46164000/jpg/_46164325_007755180-1.jpg
That efit was released by a PR man before the official SY investigation was launched
Please try to set a more challenging challenge next time
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 03:46:17 PM by pegasus »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #338 on: March 03, 2016, 03:45:18 PM »
A challenge (to anyone who would choose to accept it).

Obviously there won't be any examples in Portuguese police investigations, because the Portuguese do not use e-fits in their criminal enquiries.

But from English police investigations, find an example of where an efit was released of a suspect before an official police enquiry was launched.

We have examples of this couple and their PI's by-passing existing police inquiries and releasing e-fits to the press. Why you think they couldn't do exactly the same thing when there was no existing police inquiry is beyond me.
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ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #339 on: March 03, 2016, 03:46:10 PM »
We have examples of this couple and their PI's by-passing existing police inquiries and releasing e-fits to the press. Why you think they couldn't do exactly the same thing when there was no existing police inquiry is beyond me.

There are no examples of the sort you imagine ....

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #340 on: March 03, 2016, 03:51:50 PM »
AMEN.

I have three books on my shelves:

BENT COPPERS, The Inside Story of Scotland Yard's battle against Police Corruption (2004), Graeme McLagan

SUPERGRASSES & INFORMERS AND BENT COPPERS: OMNIBUS (764 pages)(2002 ed), James Morton

and

THE UNTOUCHABLES, Dirty cops, bent justice and racism in Scotland Yard (2012), Michael Gillard & Laurie Flynn.

And quite a few others along the same lines.

If you read them, you would see how right you are that a 'wall' of career criminals and corrupt senior police officers is almost impossible to break down.

One of the criminals named in the film, Dave Hunt, was said by the Sunday Times back in 2010 to be 'too powerful for the Met to deal with'.
Would it be fair to say that we can rule out racism as a motivating factor in the huge Establishment cover up in the McCann case?  What are the other key motivating factors in the corruption described on the books you list above?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #341 on: March 03, 2016, 03:57:54 PM »
There are no examples of the sort you imagine ....

You made a statement and have offered nothing to support it. I made a statement which I can support. When you can demonstrate the truth of what you say i'll be happy to discuss it further.
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Offline pegasus

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #342 on: March 03, 2016, 05:13:55 PM »
There are no examples of the sort you imagine ....
Yes there are. I posted one example - the BarcelonaBeckhamLookalike efit released by Mitchell at a time when there was no active police investigation. I have beaten your challenge Ferryman and claim my prize.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #343 on: March 03, 2016, 05:24:24 PM »
Yes there are. I posted one example - the BarcelonaBeckhamLookalike efit released by Mitchell at a time when there was no active police investigation. I have beaten your challenge Ferryman and claim my prize.

That's been dealt with ....

Offline pegasus

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #344 on: March 03, 2016, 05:34:18 PM »
That's been dealt with ....
... do you mean you've dispatched my prize already?
The BarcelonaChildVendor efit beats your challenge so please pay up.