Author Topic: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?  (Read 292082 times)

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ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #1065 on: March 23, 2016, 02:37:18 PM »
How would the Smiths help the mccanns ferryman  ?

Moral support?

Helping to try to identify the man the Smiths saw (potentially) Madeleine's abductor ....

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #1066 on: March 23, 2016, 02:43:00 PM »
Moral support?

Helping to try to identify the man the Smiths saw (potentially) Madeleine's abductor ....

Moral support  ?
Remember it's a murder inquiry.

« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 03:45:29 PM by Eleanor »

Offline pegasus

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #1067 on: March 23, 2016, 02:49:57 PM »
Yes a highly paid lawyer would have dictated to the Times the wording of the apology and of course "by October 2009" actually means in honest ordinary non-lawyer peeps language "in October 2009" and not a day earlier IMO
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 02:54:03 PM by pegasus »

Offline pegasus

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #1068 on: March 23, 2016, 03:44:37 PM »
That's a re-hash of the story for which The Times was sued.

Scotland Yard chose the the timing of the release of the efits (the Crimewatch programme) because they wanted its release coordinated with a live and on-going police enquiry.

That's how English police conduct criminal enquiries.

They long have.
Talking about co-ordinating with a live and ongoing police enquiry Ferryman, what's this phone number on these two sketches?   
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/mccann-family-spokesman-clarence-mitchell-holds-two-artists-of-the-picture-id79130105
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 03:48:05 PM by pegasus »

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #1069 on: March 23, 2016, 04:15:48 PM »
Talking about co-ordinating with a live and ongoing police enquiry Ferryman, what's this phone number on these two sketches?   
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/mccann-family-spokesman-clarence-mitchell-holds-two-artists-of-the-picture-id79130105

Metodo3? Whatever it is a Spanish number.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #1070 on: March 23, 2016, 04:19:51 PM »
Talking about co-ordinating with a live and ongoing police enquiry Ferryman, what's this phone number on these two sketches?   
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/mccann-family-spokesman-clarence-mitchell-holds-two-artists-of-the-picture-id79130105

Those look like efits released during the course of the first enquiry, while it was still being conducted, and not by British police.

The discussion (in respect of the Smith efits) is what the normal protocol is for British police.

British police do not release efits other than in the context of live and ongoing criminal enquiries, to assist with attempts to identify people of interest to that enquiry.

Offline jassi

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #1071 on: March 23, 2016, 04:25:20 PM »
Was mustachio guy ever identified, or is he still on the at large list?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #1072 on: March 23, 2016, 04:43:30 PM »
Martin Smith produced the efit after the end of January 2008.  In his statement to the Irish Gardia police, at that date, he said he had been approached by Brian Kennedy to produce an efit, but had refused.

It is clear that at some point later, he changed his mind and decided, after all, to produce an efit (because he realised he had been mistaken to suppose he had seen Gerry).

When isn't exactly clear, but it would have been pretty much at the point that the first, joint, enquiry was winding down.

Very obviously, as the Smiths might well have witnessed Madeleine's abduction, that efit could only be released in the context of a live and on-going enquiry, and the Met (clearly in possession of the efits well before their release) chose the moment of the Crimewatch programme to release them ....

We can do better that surely?
The case was not archived until July 2008. Oakley were given elbow (allegedly) in August 2008.
It's reasonable to assume that if Mr Smith changed his mind while the kosher investigation remained live he would have advised the PJ one way or another and it would be recorded somewhere. So if he changed his mind it likely would have between the archiving and Oakley being given the elbow. If Mr & Mrs Smith worked on efits for Oakley it was between the archiving of the kosher investigation and the termination of Oakley's contract. At that time according to press reports it was becoming very messy between Brian Kennedy/Oakley and "The Fund".
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #1073 on: March 23, 2016, 04:49:07 PM »
Was mustachio guy ever identified, or is he still on the at large list?

Still at large along with the Julie Driscoll and Eric Paice lookylikies I think. Was the spotty bloke with the Gene Vincent haircut ever accounted for?.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #1074 on: March 23, 2016, 04:51:07 PM »
We can do better that surely?
The case was not archived until July 2008. Oakley were given elbow (allegedly) in August 2008.
It's reasonable to assume that if Mr Smith changed his mind while the kosher investigation remained live he would have advised the PJ one way or another and it would be recorded somewhere. So if he changed his mind it likely would have between the archiving and Oakley being given the elbow. If Mr & Mrs Smith worked on efits for Oakley it was between the archiving of the kosher investigation and the termination of Oakley's contract. At that time according to press reports it was becoming very messy between Brian Kennedy/Oakley and "The Fund".

We don't know the sequence of events between the deterioration of relations between the McCanns and the contractors, the production of the efits and the transfer of the efits from the private investigators (who produced them) to the McCanns.

We do know that Scotland Yard had the efits in their possession before the Crimewatch programme (how else would they have been able to produce them on the programme)? and that they chose the moment of the programme to release the efits. 

It's clear that they (Scotland Yard) regarded the efits as (potentially) useful in the quest to track down Madeleine's abductor ....

Offline jassi

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #1075 on: March 23, 2016, 04:56:47 PM »
Have SY ever mentioned them again since that Crimewatch programme?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #1076 on: March 23, 2016, 05:11:06 PM »
Have SY ever mentioned them again since that Crimewatch programme?

Under Nicola Wall, the British side of the enquiry has been taciturn.

The PJ have not said much, either.

Exactly as the shelved enquiry ought to have been conducted. 

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #1077 on: March 23, 2016, 05:57:50 PM »
We don't know the sequence of events between the deterioration of relations between the McCanns and the contractors, the production of the efits and the transfer of the efits from the private investigators (who produced them) to the McCanns.

We do know that Scotland Yard had the efits in their possession before the Crimewatch programme (how else would they have been able to produce them on the programme)? and that they chose the moment of the programme to release the efits. 

It's clear that they (Scotland Yard) regarded the efits as (potentially) useful in the quest to track down Madeleine's abductor ....

That has no bearing on what I posted.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #1078 on: March 23, 2016, 06:40:19 PM »
That has no bearing on what I posted.

What you posted seems to have no bearing on either question of when the efits were handed to Scotland Yard or why Scotland Yard chose the moment they did (the Crimewatch programme) to release the efits into the public domain.

And the answer (to the opening post) is that it is the height of absurdity to suppose he would have produced an efit of a man he thought was Gerry; the height of implausibility to suppose that (now) Martin Smith still thinks he saw Gerry while his wife, Mary, publicly declares her support for the McCanns ....

Offline pegasus

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #1079 on: March 23, 2016, 06:50:39 PM »
Metodo3? Whatever it is a Spanish number.
Yes that number was possibly M3 (but is this the number that was diverted to Maryland??? This was during a very serious and active police investigation by PJ with Leics Police and SOCA also involved. So why are these efits, which neither PJ nor LP wanted releasing, being presented at a non-police press conference, with the PJ and LP phone numbers conspicuously missing from the efits, and a Spanish phone number in its place? So much for the claim that this was "co-ordination" with an active police investigation! http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/mccann-family-spokesman-clarence-mitchell-holds-two-artists-of-the-picture-id79130105
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 06:59:32 PM by pegasus »