Did June Suffer A Black Eye Prior to 7th Aug?

[Holly Goodhead]

I genuinely don't know the answer.

As far as I'm aware no one observed June with a black eye on 6th Aug.  AE's WS states the following:

"On one part of his statement he told the police officers that Aunt June Bamber had black eye and when Jeremy had asked her to account for it she had apparently said, "I hit a post".

Jeremy told the officers that he thought that there was more to her injury but Aunt June Bamber was not going to tell him.

I formed the opinion that Jeremy was insinuating that Sheila had hit Aunt June Bamber.  I asked the police officers if my Aunt June Bamber had a black eye but they couldn't tell me".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=2199

CAL page 206:

"...whilst the severe bruising to her left eye was caused either by a blow or the impact of gunshot".

CAL page 192:

"Nevill had other injuries besides gunshot wounds.  The severe bruising to his eyes and a laceration to the right side of his nose were due to a blow from a fist or blunt object".

Is this the norm from a pathologist ie no firm idea about victims' injuries including the burn marks to NB's back?

[Myster]

It's true, June did hit a post... the one that was cunningly disguised as a rifle butt when Jerry was carelessly waving it about above his head in the middle of the night.

[scipio_usmc]

Did Jeremy give her the black eye during the course of the murders such as when she got out of bed and approached him or did she really just get it innocently prior?  We have no way to know. Clearly he would not lie to protect someone else giving her the black eye during the murders. I tend to think it happened during the murders but who knows...

[Caroline]

Did Jeremy give her the black eye during the course of the murders such as when she got out of bed and approached him or did she really just get it innocently prior?  We have no way to know. Clearly he would not lie to protect someone else giving her the black eye during the murders. I tend to think it happened during the murders but who knows...

Me too and the likes of BW and Jean B made no mention of it and it is surely something you would notice.

[Holly Goodhead]

Did Jeremy give her the black eye during the course of the murders such as when she got out of bed and approached him or did she really just get it innocently prior?  We have no way to know. Clearly he would not lie to protect someone else giving her the black eye during the murders. I tend to think it happened during the murders but who knows...

I think its more likely the 'black eye' was caused by gsw. 

[Caroline]

Did Jeremy give her the black eye during the course of the murders such as when she got out of bed and approached him or did she really just get it innocently prior?  We have no way to know. Clearly he would not lie to protect someone else giving her the black eye during the murders. I tend to think it happened during the murders but who knows...

Me too and the likes of BW and Jean B made no mention of it and it is surely something you would notice.

[scipio_usmc]

I think its more likely the 'black eye' was caused by gsw.

From the position where she fell it is doubtful she got it while falling.  If she got the black eye during the course of the murders it was from either being punched by the killer or the killer struck her in the face with the weapon.

The killer was at the foot of the bed. Once she got out of bed she was in the killer's way.  She either approached the killer or simply blocked the path.  The severe  injury to her head could have made her be almost robotic or in a trance and thus to have no fear in going to her killer. She also could simply have been in the way being unsure what to do stammering around. Mind you some people with all their faculties will try to disarm an attacker also.

Maybe she did walk into a pole but it sounds fishy that such would occur so close to the murders and that such would result in a black eye. Usually your forehead bears the brunt in such.  While playing on a stoop I got pushed into a porch post. My forehead had a nasty mark ala Frankenstein, it would have needed something projecting from it in order to hurt my eye but didn't because it was just an ordinary post. 

[Holly Goodhead]

From the position where she fell it is doubtful she got it while falling.  If she got the black eye during the course of the murders it was from either being punched by the killer or the killer struck her in the face with the weapon.

The killer was at the foot of the bed. Once she got out of bed she was in the killer's way.  She either approached the killer or simply blocked the path.  The severe  injury to her head could have made her be almost robotic or in a trance and thus to have no fear in going to her killer. She also could simply have been in the way being unsure what to do stammering around. Mind you some people with all their faculties will try to disarm an attacker also.

Maybe she did walk into a pole but it sounds fishy that such would occur so close to the murders and that such would result in a black eye. Usually your forehead bears the brunt in such.  While playing on a stoop I got pushed into a porch post. My forehead had a nasty mark ala Frankenstein, it would have needed something projecting from it in order to hurt my eye but didn't because it was just an ordinary post.

According to Dr Vanezis trial testimony it was caused by gunshot.

[Holly Goodhead]

I genuinely don't know the answer.

As far as I'm aware no one observed June with a black eye on 6th Aug.  AE's WS states the following:

"On one part of his statement he told the police officers that Aunt June Bamber had black eye and when Jeremy had asked her to account for it she had apparently said, "I hit a post".

Jeremy told the officers that he thought that there was more to her injury but Aunt June Bamber was not going to tell him.

I formed the opinion that Jeremy was insinuating that Sheila had hit Aunt June Bamber.  I asked the police officers if my Aunt June Bamber had a black eye but they couldn't tell me".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=2199

CAL page 206:

"...whilst the severe bruising to her left eye was caused either by a blow or the impact of gunshot".

CAL page 192:

"Nevill had other injuries besides gunshot wounds.  The severe bruising to his eyes and a laceration to the right side of his nose were due to a blow from a fist or blunt object".

Is this the norm from a pathologist ie no firm idea about victims' injuries including the burn marks to NB's back?

[scipio_usmc]

That doesn't preclude it from having existed prior or preclude it from being caused by her being struck. Nor does it  preclude her from having been struck- people don't always get black eyes when struck and knocked down. I have been in numerous fights and despite being struck in the face never got a black eye. He was guessing it was caused by the shot since that happens sometimes. Often it will happen with a shot like she suffered to the side of the head (the eye on the side of the shot) but it depends on numerous variables including but not limited to the power of the bullet.  His guess could be wrong, she could have been hit.  He could be right and she still could have been hit.

 
Unless June got our of bed after Jeremy left she would have been blocking his exit.  He would have to do something to get past her be it shove her out of the way or something even more forceful. She may have done more than just block him she may have confronted him.     
 

[adam]

Nevill had two black eyes. Bit of coincidence that June had one as well.

June hit a post. I don't think so. 

[Angelo222]

Surely bruising associated with a black eye takes a while to develop?  If she had hit a post the previous day Barbara Wilson would have known about it.  Had she been hit by Sheila prior to her death the blackening could not have developed imo.

[Holly Goodhead]

Nevill had two black eyes. Bit of coincidence that June had one as well.

June hit a post. I don't think so.

According to Dr Vanezis NB's black eyes were caused by blows and June's by gsw's.  Which maybe makes sense if you consider June sustained a gsw above the bridge of her nose/between the eyes. 

[Miss Taken Identity]

Surely bruising associated with a black eye takes a while to develop?  If she had hit a post the previous day Barbara Wilson would have known about it.  Had she been hit by Sheila prior to her death the blackening could not have developed imo.

Sounds about right.

I am just catching up with this as it was brought to my attention by a work colleague who was discussing this case.

Are we thinking that The daughter was doing a  Lizzie Borden?

[Angelo222]

Sounds about right.

I am just catching up with this as it was brought to my attention by a work colleague who was discussing this case.

Are we thinking that The daughter was doing a  Lizzie Borden?

Sheila was an innocent victim of a ruthless killer.