Slarti's Simple Solution.

[faithlilly]

Eh?
A cover up would be driven by fear of being caught doing something wrong (in your scenario presumably it would be giving your kids Super Strength Sedative).  An abduction would be driven by something else entirely.

I think the point is that if the abductor could have got away virtually unseen ( apart from Mr and Mrs Smith who thought the person they saw was probably Gerry ) then so could a parent.

[Alfred R Jones]

I think the point is that if the abductor could have got away virtually unseen ( apart from Mr and Mrs Smith who thought the person they saw was probably Gerry ) then so could a parent.

Then it's a very silly point.  A parent didn't get away, a parent was in the vicinity the whole time and had no window of opportunity to smuggle a corpse out of an apartment with no one else knowing to hide it somewhere where it has never been found to this day. 

[G-Unit]

Then it's a very silly point.  A parent didn't get away, a parent was in the vicinity the whole time and had no window of opportunity to smuggle a corpse out of an apartment with no one else knowing to hide it somewhere where it has never been found to this day.

Not proven though, is it?

In the confusion following the disappearance of Madeleine it would be possible that one of the men or Fiona Payne 'escaped' to join in the searches again later.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIGADE-OF-INFORMATION.htm

Said that, yesterday, one individual, purportedly the father of the missing, left the dinner table where a group of friends (in number 8 or 9), for about 30 minutes.

The second to leave (about 40/45 years of age, having the physical characteristics of the first, but having less bulky hair) did so for about 30 minutes,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAPAS-EMPLOYEES.htm

[Alfred R Jones]

Not proven though, is it?

In the confusion following the disappearance of Madeleine it would be possible that one of the men or Fiona Payne 'escaped' to join in the searches again later.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIGADE-OF-INFORMATION.htm

Said that, yesterday, one individual, purportedly the father of the missing, left the dinner table where a group of friends (in number 8 or 9), for about 30 minutes.

The second to leave (about 40/45 years of age, having the physical characteristics of the first, but having less bulky hair) did so for about 30 minutes,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAPAS-EMPLOYEES.htm

Not sure what your point about one of the men or Fiona Payne "escaping" is - are you suggesting they may be "in on it?"
Your other two quotes require times attached.  Was this around 9pm?  Does it cover the time Gerry was talking to Jez Wilkins?  Does it cover the time period when the Smiths were allegedly clocking Gerry?

[Benice]

Not proven though, is it?

In the confusion following the disappearance of Madeleine it would be possible that one of the men or Fiona Payne 'escaped' to join in the searches again later.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIGADE-OF-INFORMATION.htm

Said that, yesterday, one individual, purportedly the father of the missing, left the dinner table where a group of friends (in number 8 or 9), for about 30 minutes.

The second to leave (about 40/45 years of age, having the physical characteristics of the first, but having less bulky hair) did so for about 30 minutes,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAPAS-EMPLOYEES.htm

Why have such a convoluted, complicated, dangerous plan when all they had to do was wait until the middle of the night and then take the body to this unfindable place which they apparently knew about and no-one else in PdL did?

All they had to do then was call the police in the morning and say someone had abducted her during the night.

No need to involve anyone else in it - so no chance of anyone slipping up or cracking under interrogation.

And who was going to tell the police that wasn't what happened?  - the twins?

 

[faithlilly]

Why have such a convoluted, complicated, dangerous plan when all they had to do was wait until the middle of the night and then take the body to this unfindable place which they apparently knew about and no-one else in PdL did?

All they had to do then was call the police in the morning and say someone had abducted her during the night.

No need to involve anyone else in it - so no chance of anyone slipping up or cracking under interrogation.

And who was going to tell the police that wasn't what happened?  - the twins?

Not a very convincing alibi though.

[Alice Purjorick]

I can quite see why answering all those questions would vital for nailing a perpetrator (named).

But I can't, for the life of me, see how any of them are remotely relevant to establishing the innocence of the McCanns.

I am not worried about establishing the innocence of the McCanns I want to know how the alleged abduction was effected.
It's a simple enough proposition. A job requiring a manning level, a time span and a slot into which that time span fits.
Detail the activity, how many men, how do they get on site, how do they get off site how long does the job take and what is the time available?
If we get to the point where the job takes 3x minutes and there is only a 2x time slot there is a problem.
Convoluted plans eat up time and because of the "listening train" time was few. So it had to be a quick job. On spec looks like a non starter as how would the "on spec man" know there was a child in the apartment? Burglary gone wrong gerroff pull the other one. So how was it done?

[Alfred R Jones]

I am not worried about establishing the innocence of the McCanns I want to know how the alleged abduction was effected.
It's a simple enough proposition. A job requiring a manning level, a time span and a slot into which that time span fits.
Detail the activity, how many men, how do they get on site, how do they get off site how long does the job take and what is the time available?
If we get to the point where the job takes 3x minutes and there is only a 2x time slot there is a problem.
Convoluted plans eat up time and because of the "listening train" time was few. So it had to be a quick job. On spec looks like a non starter as how would the "on spec man" know there was a child in the apartment? Burglary gone wrong gerroff pull the other one. So how was it done?

Maybe like this?

"Person A is around the OC, sees the McCanns leaving the apartment by the patio, knows it is unlocked. Waits until they gone into the tapas. Drive up to back entrance of 5a, nips into apartment, picks up Madeleine (if she wakes just tell her taking to Daddy), out to the car, drive off. Job done".

[Alfred R Jones]

Not a very convincing alibi though.

You're not convinced by their current alibi anyway so what's the difference?

[Alice Purjorick]

does that mean you reject Slarti's Simple Solution?  On what basis?

No I am waiting for a supporter to come up with a credible abduction theory fully detailed with times, routes, durations and "manning" levels

[Alfred R Jones]

No I am waiting for a supporter to come up with a credible abduction theory fully detailed with times, routes, durations and "manning" levels

8.40pm, in and out of the apartment like Flynn (three minutes max), into a car, at 30 mph off into the horizon.  Will that do?

[faithlilly]

You're not convinced by their current alibi anyway so what's the difference?

It's not me they needed to convince.

[Alfred R Jones]

It's not me they needed to convince.

So are you saying that their current alibi has convinced the people who needed convincing?

[Alice Purjorick]

Maybe like this?

"Person A is around the OC, sees the McCanns leaving the apartment by the patio, knows it is unlocked. Waits until they gone into the tapas. Drive up to back entrance of 5a, nips into apartment, picks up Madeleine (if she wakes just tell her taking to Daddy), out to the car, drive off. Job done".

How does he know the door is unlocked without going through the faff of trying it ?
How does he know there is a child in there?
Where is he when observing the McCanns and where is his car?
At what time did he effect the abduction? according to testimony and timelines the earliest he could have done it was 21:20  then again about 21:45.
Give us a complete job and time analysis then we can see what's what.
So your belief is was an "on spec" job?

[Alice Purjorick]

8.40pm, in and out of the apartment like Flynn (three minutes max), into a car, at 30 mph off into the horizon.  Will that do?

So Gerry didn't see her at 21:00 ish?