Author Topic: "Charity collectors" data  (Read 99961 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: "Charity collectors" data
« Reply #390 on: April 11, 2016, 08:01:11 AM »
CM and another spinner attempted to spin it as the Portuguese broadcasters refusing to broadcast the Crimewatch special. However the facts are that both TVI and SIC wanted to broadcast it and asked for permission but were denied permission. How absolutely ridiculous, making a TV programme appealing for witnesses to a disappearance in Portugal, and then refusing permission for it to be broadcast in full in Portugal.

do you have any real evidence to support this

Offline Benice

Re: "Charity collectors" data
« Reply #391 on: April 11, 2016, 08:45:26 AM »
As it would appear that no equivalent programme has ever been shown in Portugal -  could the reason for that be because it would conflict with their Secrecy Laws?     Just wondering.

I'm presuming that  none of the other countries who did show it had the the same law to consider.
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Carana

Re: "Charity collectors" data
« Reply #392 on: April 11, 2016, 10:14:56 AM »
As it would appear that no equivalent programme has ever been shown in Portugal -  could the reason for that be because it would conflict with their Secrecy Laws?     Just wondering.

I'm presuming that  none of the other countries who did show it had the the same law to consider.

I've wondered about that as well.

There was coverage of some of the essential bits in PT, but I'm not aware of any dedicated type of similar programme in PT.

A different potential issue (which might have applied more to TVI than SIC) could have been a suspicion that TVI might have used it with the usual rent-a-gobs as part of a panel discussion. The Met and the PJ investigations hardly needed guest appearances by Amaral, Anjos, Flores, Sargento and the rest of the Amaral fan-club, plus a live mccannswhatdunit poll.

SIC may have been more responsible about it, but wasn't it on a SIC * chat show that Barra da Costa announced that a "source" had assured him that the McCanns were swingers? (Not certain, but from memory it wasn't TVI.)

* Correction: just checked, apparently it wasn't SIC, it was RTP.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 10:32:28 AM by Carana »

Offline Brietta

Re: "Charity collectors" data
« Reply #393 on: April 11, 2016, 10:57:29 AM »
I've wondered about that as well.

There was coverage of some of the essential bits in PT, but I'm not aware of any dedicated type of similar programme in PT.

A different potential issue (which might have applied more to TVI than SIC) could have been a suspicion that TVI might have used it with the usual rent-a-gobs as part of a panel discussion. The Met and the PJ investigations hardly needed guest appearances by Amaral, Anjos, Flores, Sargento and the rest of the Amaral fan-club, plus a live mccannswhatdunit poll.

SIC may have been more responsible about it, but wasn't it on a SIC chat show that Barra da Costa announced that a "source" had assured him that the McCanns were swingers? (Not certain, but from memory it wasn't TVI.)

I think that whatever happened to prevent the broadcast of the Crimewatch appeal on behalf of Madeleine was a problem entirely confined to the Portuguese side of the equation.

Before anyone jumps in to accuse me of xenophobia think about the delicate internal situation in the country.

The Policia Judiciaria had been conducting their own review into Madeleine's case.  They were in the process of negotiating the reopening of Madeleine's case which must have been politically sensitive.
Although their investigation concurred with Scotland Yard's that neither Madeleine's parents or their friends were not involved in her disappearance and they were looking at stranger involvement ... it had taken a different route and had different suspects in mind.

Imagine for a moment a reversal of the situation and the offence had been committed against a Portuguese child in a seaside town in Britain.  A Portuguese prime time TV programme organised by the PJ, who have just reopened the case) is broadcast here which is looking at a different aspect of the case from our law enforcement which unbeknownst to us will shortly announce their own reinvestigation.

The Portugal News article suggests that the PJ and SY were in discussion as far as the programme went ... I am sure they would be able to envisage the dichotomy it might present for a Portuguese audience whose home force would be revealed within days as presenting their own investigative outcomes to them.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: "Charity collectors" data
« Reply #394 on: April 11, 2016, 11:10:13 AM »
I think that whatever happened to prevent the broadcast of the Crimewatch appeal on behalf of Madeleine was a problem entirely confined to the Portuguese side of the equation.

Before anyone jumps in to accuse me of xenophobia think about the delicate internal situation in the country.

The Policia Judiciaria had been conducting their own review into Madeleine's case.  They were in the process of negotiating the reopening of Madeleine's case which must have been politically sensitive.
Although their investigation concurred with Scotland Yard's that neither Madeleine's parents or their friends were not involved in her disappearance and they were looking at stranger involvement ... it had taken a different route and had different suspects in mind.

Imagine for a moment a reversal of the situation and the offence had been committed against a Portuguese child in a seaside town in Britain.  A Portuguese prime time TV programme organised by the PJ, who have just reopened the case) is broadcast here which is looking at a different aspect of the case from our law enforcement which unbeknownst to us will shortly announce their own reinvestigation.

The Portugal News article suggests that the PJ and SY were in discussion as far as the programme went ... I am sure they would be able to envisage the dichotomy it might present for a Portuguese audience whose home force would be revealed within days as presenting their own investigative outcomes to them.

I can find no cites supporting the bolded statement.
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Offline Brietta

Re: "Charity collectors" data
« Reply #395 on: April 11, 2016, 06:45:33 PM »
I can find no cites supporting the bolded statement.


PJ creates new team to investigate the Maddie case

26 October 2013 | Posted by Joana Morais 


Investigation. In view of the existence of new evidence, within days it will be decided who will investigate the disappearance of the English child. Portuguese police deny pressures and say, that despite the “close relationship”, they will run a parallel investigation to the Scotland Yard

by Alfredo Teixeira

The Judiciary Police (PJ) reopened the investigation concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and they warrant that this time the parents of the girl who disappeared in Praia da Luz, Algarve, days before her fourth birthday, on May 3, 2007, are not suspects. To the DN the Portuguese police disclosed that there are “new evidence” about what has happened to the child while she slept together with her two twin siblings, in the apartment at the tourist resort. They do not disclose the existence of suspects and only reveal that internally, in the coming days, a team will be created to resume the investigation.

When, last week, on the 17th, the PJ hierarchy met with the Scotland Yard assistant commissioner Mark Rowley and DCI Andy Redwood, who heads the approximately 37 agents working in the British investigation, the decision to request the reopening of the investigation to the Public Ministry (MP) was communicated.

 The Portuguese police denies any pressure from the English, stressing that they did not cooperate directly with the Scotland Yard investigation. However, information gathered by the English police, mainly related to the past of some people that were referenced in the case files, would have complemented the analysis by the investigation team in Portugal.

“There were elements gathered that have to do with events before the disappearance of the child and others after. Relating them with those contained in the process already archived have raised a more than reasonable doubt about what happened to the child,” said a source close to the investigation to the DN, adding that a in meeting with Gerry and Kate McCann, and the lawyers of the couple, the PJ asked “absolute silence” about the investigation.

 At the headquarters of the London Metropolitan Police who have been working on the case for over a year [sic, for over two years], Scotland Yard said to have found new relevant information, based on the forty thousand documents and clues collected by the police forces from Portugal, UK and eight different companies of private detective and just a few days ago they showed e-fits of a suspect.

 A source of the PJ that hasn't, however, worked for this process, does not set aside the divulgation of images of the same kind if appropriate. It acknowledges, however, the important of the work done by the Regional Section of Criminal Investigation and Prevention of the PJ from Porto, led by the coordinator Helena Monteiro. Notwithstanding the formal archival of the investigation, that team was on the field since March last year, searching for leads to follow and in order to fill any eventual gaps in the initial investigations.

 That reanalysis task has “helped identify new evidence, which by imposing further investigation, meet the requirements set by article 279º no 1 of the Code of Criminal Procedure for the reopening of the investigation.” said the PJ in a statement. “Similarly to what happens in all the cases of missing children, notwithstanding the formal archival of the investigation concerning her disappearance, and as was always publicly stated, the Judiciary Police continued to be attentive to any and all information likely to enable the understanding of the whereabouts of the minor Madeleine McCann, the circumstances in which her disappearance occurred and the identity of its author(s),” the PJ clarified.

 Also yesterday, a note from the Attorney General's Office (PGR) said that the Public Ministry (MP) decided to reopen the investigation. It was on July 21, 2008 that the PGR announced the archival of the process concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and removed the status of arguidos from the parents of the English minor and Robert Murat, with the proviso that they could reopen the process at any time if “new elements of evidence” surfaced, evidence which they now claim to exist as the result of the identification of witnesses who were never heard.

 Experience in missing people cases

 With the investigation archived since July 2008, it was the National Direction of the PJ who, in March 2011 [sic, 2012], assigned to a team of investigators from the North Directorship the task to re-analyse the whole wide range of information in the process, with the objective of identifying information whose further understanding could be revealed useful and possible. Leading the group of four inspectors was the coordinator Helena Monteiro, with experience in missing people cases, namely the young lady from Lamego, Carina Ferreira, whose body was found after a month of searches at the bottom of a ravine near a motorway. Helena Monteiro has worked, among other areas of investigation, in the fight against violent criminality.

Diário de Notícias, October 25, 2013, paper edition

Refs.

Oporto PJ goes through Madeleine McCann case with a fine toothed comb March 2012

Loose ends of the case only cleared up with the process reopened March 2012

Virtual reconstitution tests witnesses’ version March 2012

Maddie Case: Vanishing Revisited March 2012



Just as the Scotland Yard investigation indicated other avenues to follow in the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance the thinking being that bogus charity collectors, burglars and a pervert entering homes where there were young girls ... might have stories to tell.

The PJ inquiry also pointed away from people who had been exhaustively investigated and already eliminated from the inquiry in 2008.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: "Charity collectors" data
« Reply #396 on: April 11, 2016, 07:32:21 PM »

PJ creates new team to investigate the Maddie case

26 October 2013 | Posted by Joana Morais 


Investigation. In view of the existence of new evidence, within days it will be decided who will investigate the disappearance of the English child. Portuguese police deny pressures and say, that despite the “close relationship”, they will run a parallel investigation to the Scotland Yard

by Alfredo Teixeira

The Judiciary Police (PJ) reopened the investigation concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and they warrant that this time the parents of the girl who disappeared in Praia da Luz, Algarve, days before her fourth birthday, on May 3, 2007, are not suspects. To the DN the Portuguese police disclosed that there are “new evidence” about what has happened to the child while she slept together with her two twin siblings, in the apartment at the tourist resort. They do not disclose the existence of suspects and only reveal that internally, in the coming days, a team will be created to resume the investigation.

When, last week, on the 17th, the PJ hierarchy met with the Scotland Yard assistant commissioner Mark Rowley and DCI Andy Redwood, who heads the approximately 37 agents working in the British investigation, the decision to request the reopening of the investigation to the Public Ministry (MP) was communicated.

 The Portuguese police denies any pressure from the English, stressing that they did not cooperate directly with the Scotland Yard investigation. However, information gathered by the English police, mainly related to the past of some people that were referenced in the case files, would have complemented the analysis by the investigation team in Portugal.

“There were elements gathered that have to do with events before the disappearance of the child and others after. Relating them with those contained in the process already archived have raised a more than reasonable doubt about what happened to the child,” said a source close to the investigation to the DN, adding that a in meeting with Gerry and Kate McCann, and the lawyers of the couple, the PJ asked “absolute silence” about the investigation.

 At the headquarters of the London Metropolitan Police who have been working on the case for over a year [sic, for over two years], Scotland Yard said to have found new relevant information, based on the forty thousand documents and clues collected by the police forces from Portugal, UK and eight different companies of private detective and just a few days ago they showed e-fits of a suspect.

 A source of the PJ that hasn't, however, worked for this process, does not set aside the divulgation of images of the same kind if appropriate. It acknowledges, however, the important of the work done by the Regional Section of Criminal Investigation and Prevention of the PJ from Porto, led by the coordinator Helena Monteiro. Notwithstanding the formal archival of the investigation, that team was on the field since March last year, searching for leads to follow and in order to fill any eventual gaps in the initial investigations.

 That reanalysis task has “helped identify new evidence, which by imposing further investigation, meet the requirements set by article 279º no 1 of the Code of Criminal Procedure for the reopening of the investigation.” said the PJ in a statement. “Similarly to what happens in all the cases of missing children, notwithstanding the formal archival of the investigation concerning her disappearance, and as was always publicly stated, the Judiciary Police continued to be attentive to any and all information likely to enable the understanding of the whereabouts of the minor Madeleine McCann, the circumstances in which her disappearance occurred and the identity of its author(s),” the PJ clarified.

 Also yesterday, a note from the Attorney General's Office (PGR) said that the Public Ministry (MP) decided to reopen the investigation. It was on July 21, 2008 that the PGR announced the archival of the process concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and removed the status of arguidos from the parents of the English minor and Robert Murat, with the proviso that they could reopen the process at any time if “new elements of evidence” surfaced, evidence which they now claim to exist as the result of the identification of witnesses who were never heard.

 Experience in missing people cases

 With the investigation archived since July 2008, it was the National Direction of the PJ who, in March 2011 [sic, 2012], assigned to a team of investigators from the North Directorship the task to re-analyse the whole wide range of information in the process, with the objective of identifying information whose further understanding could be revealed useful and possible. Leading the group of four inspectors was the coordinator Helena Monteiro, with experience in missing people cases, namely the young lady from Lamego, Carina Ferreira, whose body was found after a month of searches at the bottom of a ravine near a motorway. Helena Monteiro has worked, among other areas of investigation, in the fight against violent criminality.

Diário de Notícias, October 25, 2013, paper edition

Refs.

Oporto PJ goes through Madeleine McCann case with a fine toothed comb March 2012

Loose ends of the case only cleared up with the process reopened March 2012

Virtual reconstitution tests witnesses’ version March 2012

Maddie Case: Vanishing Revisited March 2012



Just as the Scotland Yard investigation indicated other avenues to follow in the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance the thinking being that bogus charity collectors, burglars and a pervert entering homes where there were young girls ... might have stories to tell.

The PJ inquiry also pointed away from people who had been exhaustively investigated and already eliminated from the inquiry in 2008.

Speculation by the Portuguese press? It must be true then.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: "Charity collectors" data
« Reply #397 on: April 11, 2016, 08:38:31 PM »
Although their investigation concurred with Scotland Yard's that neither Madeleine's parents or their friends were not involved in her disappearance and they were looking at stranger involvement (Post 393)

When asked for a cite they posted a newspaper article saying;

they warrant that this time the parents of the girl who disappeared in Praia da Luz, Algarve, days before her fourth birthday, on May 3, 2007, are not suspects.;

Firstly, the quote was exaggerated and secondly no source was identified by the newspaper.

 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 07:03:25 PM by Admin »
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Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
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Offline Eleanor

Re: "Charity collectors" data
« Reply #398 on: April 11, 2016, 09:35:05 PM »
Although their investigation concurred with Scotland Yard's that neither Madeleine's parents or their friends were not involved in her disappearance and they were looking at stranger involvement (Post 393)

When asked for a cite they posted a newspaper article saying;

they warrant that this time the parents of the girl who disappeared in Praia da Luz, Algarve, days before her fourth birthday, on May 3, 2007, are not suspects.;

Firstly, the quote was exaggerated and secondly no source was identified by the newspaper.

Your comment does not make any sense to me.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 07:04:03 PM by Admin »

Offline pegasus

Re: "Charity collectors" data
« Reply #399 on: April 12, 2016, 06:03:42 PM »
There was no mention of any charity collectors re the disturbed attempted burglary of 5G.
There was no mention of any charity collectors re the successful burglary of a nearby groundfloor apartment.
There was no mention of any charity collectors re the successful burglary of 5L (yes a stranger had knocked at the door of 5L a little earlier, but he used the excuse of looking for some family who weren't staying there, he wasn't collecting for charity).

There is no link between charity collectors (bogus or real) and these burglaries.

Offline Brietta

Re: "Charity collectors" data
« Reply #400 on: April 12, 2016, 06:41:54 PM »
There was no mention of any charity collectors re the disturbed attempted burglary of 5G.
There was no mention of any charity collectors re the successful burglary of a nearby groundfloor apartment.
There was no mention of any charity collectors re the successful burglary of 5L (yes a stranger had knocked at the door of 5L a little earlier, but he used the excuse of looking for some family who weren't staying there, he wasn't collecting for charity).

There is no link between charity collectors (bogus or real) and these burglaries.

The way to determine that is to find out who they are and ask the question of them.

Just as the only way to eliminate the men seen by witnesses around the McCann holiday residence is to locate them and find out what their purpose was in the area.

Could indeed have nothing to do with burglaries - the burglaries and other home invasions might have nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance.
However no-one can be exonerated until they have been found and interviewed by law enforcement.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pegasus

Re: "Charity collectors" data
« Reply #401 on: April 13, 2016, 01:15:43 AM »
The way to determine that is to find out who they are and ask the question of them.

Just as the only way to eliminate the men seen by witnesses around the McCann holiday residence is to locate them and find out what their purpose was in the area.

Could indeed have nothing to do with burglaries - the burglaries and other home invasions might have nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance.
However no-one can be exonerated until they have been found and interviewed by law enforcement.
A first step might be to go to the Câmara Municipal (not sure if that would be PDL or Lagos) and ask for records of what charity collection permits were issued for the relevant dates.

Offline Brietta

Re: "Charity collectors" data
« Reply #402 on: April 13, 2016, 01:39:41 AM »
A first step might be to go to the Câmara Municipal (not sure if that would be PDL or Lagos) and ask for records of what charity collection permits were issued for the relevant dates.

I think the police will have already done that to eliminate any legitimate collectors, if there were any.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: "Charity collectors" data
« Reply #403 on: April 13, 2016, 01:41:10 PM »
A first step might be to go to the Câmara Municipal (not sure if that would be PDL or Lagos) and ask for records of what charity collection permits were issued for the relevant dates.
It's in Lagos at the E end of Avenida da Republica.

You need to go there for all sorts of things.  To pay utility bills not on direct debit.  To set up direct debits for utility bills.  To matriculate (import) cars.  To pay motorway toll charges.  To get all sorts of the many licences for businesses.  From memory, it is in the PJ Files re engineering works and pipe networks.

I wonder if Crimewatch called the charity collectors simply 'bogus' or used some sort of fudge term like 'allegedly bogus'.

There is a local administration in Luz but to be honest I've no idea what it is responsible for, since I've never heard anyone speak of using it.

Anyway, Lagos Camara Municipal, Aug 2009.
What's up, old man?

Offline pegasus

Re: "Charity collectors" data
« Reply #404 on: April 13, 2016, 01:53:32 PM »
It's in Lagos at the E end of Avenida da Republica.

You need to go there for all sorts of things.  To pay utility bills not on direct debit.  To set up direct debits for utility bills.  To matriculate (import) cars.  To pay motorway toll charges.  To get all sorts of the many licences for businesses.  From memory, it is in the PJ Files re engineering works and pipe networks.

I wonder if Crimewatch called the charity collectors simply 'bogus' or used some sort of fudge term like 'allegedly bogus'.

There is a local administration in Luz but to be honest I've no idea what it is responsible for, since I've never heard anyone speak of using it.

Anyway, Lagos Camara Municipal, Aug 2009.
Thanks Shining. Probably the Câmara would not store collection permit records from 9 years ago 
BTW were you in Portugal when the Crimewatch special was broadcast there?
(A trick question obviously)