Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?

[G-Unit]

As I understand it, Redwood acknowledged in March 2014 the possibility that Madeleine died in the apartment;

"There is always the potential that she didn't leave the apartment alive. What is important for us to do is consider all the options," he said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-mccann-idUSBREA2I1D220140319

Full Definition of potential
1
:  existing in possibility :  capable of development into actuality <potential benefits>
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/potential

[ferryman]

(Tragically) an intruder might have killed (murdered!) Madeleine in the apartment ....

[Carana]

But take note also that LCN DNA profiling, as its techniques improve, could yet establish that Madeleine McCann WAS the source of the body fluids in Swab 3A.

It must not be assumed that we will not, one day, find confirmation that those WERE her body fluids.

Even D C I Redwood of Operation Grange said there was EVIDENCE that she might have died 'in the apartment' - that was in a statement he made in early 2013 IIRC.  That means 'before her body was removed from the apartment'.

Think about it.

What evidence would that be, I wonder???

-------------------------------------

JOHN LOWE TO STUART PRIOR, 3 SEPTEMBER 2007

>From: Lowe, Mr J R [mailto:John.Lowe@fss.pnn.police.uk
>Sent: 03 September 2007 15:01
>To: stuart.prior@leicestershire.pnn.police.uk
>Subject: Op Task - In Confidence

Stuart

Firstly, here are the last three results you are expecting

An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3A. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive, it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid.

There is no evidence to support the view that Madeline McCann contributed DNA to the swab 3B.

A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.

Why?...

Well, lets look at the question that is being asked

"Is there DNA from Madeline on the swab?"

It would be very simple to say "yes" simply because of the number of components within the result that are also in her reference sample.

What we need to consider, as scientists, is whether the match is genuine and legitimate; because Madeline has deposited DNA as a result of being in the car or whether Madeline merely appears to match the result by chance. The individual components in Madeline's profile are not unique to her, it is the specific combination of 19 components that makes her profile unique above all others. Elements of Madeline's profile are also present within the profiles of many of the scientists here in Birmingham, myself included. lt's important to stress that 50% of Madeline's profile will be shared with each parent. It is not possible in a mixture of more than two people, to determine or evaluate which specific DNA components pair with each other. Namely, we cannot separate the components out into 3 individual DNA profiles.

Therefore, we cannot answer the question: Is the match genuine or is it a chance match.

The same applies to any result that is quoted as being too complex for meaningful inclusion/interpretation

What questions will we never be able to answer with LCN DNA profiling?

When was the DNA deposited?
How was the DNA deposited?
What body fluid(s) does the DIVA originate from?
Was a crime committed?

According to Amaral (whether his information was correct or not), there were 5 components on swab 3A that coincided with those present in her profile.

Total strangers would share as many, often more. There is absolutely nothing unusual in that. It's no more significant than sharing a few digits in a long phone number.

[Alice Purjorick]

If DCI Redwood really did say:
"There is always the potential that she didn't leave the apartment alive............"

I wonder what prompted him to say so? An experienced ociffer of his standing does not "trap off" just to fill in a silence and it is hardly a casual throwaway remark.

[jassi]

(Tragically) an intruder might have killed (murdered!) Madeleine in the apartment ....

Yes, but in that case why remove the body ?

[ferryman]

Yes, but in that case why remove the body ?

So as not to leave forensic evidence inside.

I'm sure we don't need to be graphic ....

[jassi]

No forensic evidence of an intruder was found in the apartment, with or without a body.
A person that careful is not going to leave traces on a body.

[Alice Purjorick]

So as not to leave forensic evidence inside.

I'm sure we don't need to be graphic ....

Do you mean that in your opinion he would not have left any trace of his presence in the apartment ?
Not even down to smudges from his gloves or did he wipe the place clean before legging it ?

[G-Unit]

(Tragically) an intruder might have killed (murdered!) Madeleine in the apartment ....

If Madeleine died in the apartment why do you assume 'an intruder' 'murdered' her? There are other possibilities.

[ferryman]

Do you mean that in your opinion he would not have left any trace of his presence in the apartment ?
Not even down to smudges from his gloves or did he wipe the place clean before legging it ?

The initial forensic sweep (by the PJ) was not very thorough; the subsequent one when the British arrived, 3 months after the crime, and after the apartment had been re-let as a holiday apartment.

Who knows?

[Carana]

(Tragically) an intruder might have killed (murdered!) Madeleine in the apartment ....

Of course it's possible that this little girl died in the flat. However, there is no physical evidence to support that possibility at the moment.

[Brietta]

The initial forensic sweep (by the PJ) was not very thorough; the subsequent one when the British arrived, 3 months after the crime, and after the apartment had been re-let as a holiday apartment.

Who knows?

I am puzzled as to why it should be considered 'suspicious' that Madeleine's DNA, her siblings' DNA or anyone who had legitimate access to the apartment during the time of the McCann occupation left traces.

Is there not a foreign DNA sample which has yet to be identified?

[ferryman]

I am puzzled as to why it should be considered 'suspicious' that Madeleine's DNA, her siblings' DNA or anyone who had legitimate access to the apartment during the time of the McCann occupation left traces.

Is there not a foreign DNA sample which has yet to be identified?

I seem to recall that Amaral himself said that there would be nothing remotely suspicious about Madeleine's dna should be in the apartment.  And, of course, in that, he was bang-on right.  Madeleine lived there (for a short while). 

[pegasus]

Going back to square zero, is there any evidence that the child left the apartment Thu evening? No-one saw her leaving. So what exactly is the evidence for it?

[misty]

Going back to square zero, is there any evidence that the child left the apartment Thu evening? No-one saw her leaving. So what exactly is the evidence for it?

No independent witnesses, except JW, saw any of the Tapas group carrying out their checks in the vicinity of Block 5.
They came & went, undetected under the cover of darkness & a relatively deserted location. It happened - just as Madeleine was removed, unseen.