Author Topic: Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?  (Read 22720 times)

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Offline Carana

Re: Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2016, 04:03:27 PM »
I am puzzled as to why it should be considered 'suspicious' that Madeleine's DNA, her siblings' DNA or anyone who had legitimate access to the apartment during the time of the McCann occupation left traces.

Is there not a foreign DNA sample which has yet to be identified?

Yes, there are still the hairs.

Offline pegasus

Re: Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2016, 04:11:27 PM »
No independent witnesses, except JW, saw any of the Tapas group carrying out their checks in the vicinity of Block 5.
They came & went, undetected under the cover of darkness & a relatively deserted location. It happened - just as Madeleine was removed, unseen.
Why arbitrarily assume it was before 10pm? What is the exact evidence for that? Is there any?

Offline misty

Re: Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2016, 04:16:58 PM »
Why arbitrarily assume it was before 10pm? What is the exact evidence for that? Is there any?

The time between 8.30pm & 10pm is the period during which there were no other occupants besides the 3 children in continuous occupation of the apartment. After Kate & the group returned, there was real eyewitness evidence in the immediate vicinity. It is highly improbable Madeleine left the apartment unnoticed after that time.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2016, 04:17:54 PM »
Maddie may well have died in the apartment but it seems there is no evidence to support this

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2016, 04:19:44 PM »
Maddie may well have died in the apartment but it seems there is no evidence to support this

There is evidence that's why SY were searching wasteland and pipes.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline blonk

Re: Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2016, 04:25:00 PM »
lets start with this statement you made today...

Even D C I Redwood of Operation Grange said there was EVIDENCE that she might have died 'in the apartment' - that was in a statement he made in early 2013 IIRC.  That means 'before her body was removed from the apartment'.

could you show where Redwood said there was evidence........what you are saying is untrue

I will happily once again answer your challenge - if you will also have the courtesy to answer my earlier challenge - i.e. please provide a cite for where I have ever stated as a fact that there was a 100% DNA match for the body fluids and Madeleine's DNA body. Otherwise please withdraw your allegation.

If you read my reply earlier, I quoted a press report which had Redwood clearly saying that he had a basis for the view that Madeleine had died before she left the apartment. Clearly if he had a basis for saying that, he must have had evidence for making that statement, whether he actually used the word 'evidence' or not. Evidence is of course not proof, as we know.

Here is the actual quote again, the initial source I used:

"Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood admitted that what they have uncovered means Madeleine might not have left the apartment alive".


So my question remains, though I will happily re-phrase it: what is the basis, the evidence, the indications, call it what you will, for thinking, as he said, that 'Madeleine may have been dead before she left the apartment' ?

Doing my best to shine a light on what he did actually say, I note that the flurry of press reports were all dated 19 March 2014 and appear to follow some sort of 'press conference'. Possibly this was in the form of some press briefing, possibly not intended for the cameras, because we appear AFAIK not to have any physical record of his actual words.

What he did actually say appears, now I've checked up on it, not to be entirely clear.

The Guardian amended one of its two 19th March reports two days later - Friday 21 March.

Here is the link:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/19/madeleine-mccann-police-intruder-girls-algarve

...and here is the relevant extract from the report:

QUOTE

• This article was amended on 21 March 2014. The earlier version stated that Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood had said the assumption that Madeleine had been alive when she left the apartment "may not follow with all our thinking" on the case. To clarify: those quoted words actually came after Redwood had referred to the assumption that Madeleine had been abducted. However, Redwood did say during the same press conference that police were considering the possibility that Madeleine was not alive when taken from the apartment as well as the possibility that she was.

UNQUOTE

It looks, then, as though reporters were taking notes or recording his words, and manifestly he said to the reporters that (quote above) "the possibility that Madeleine was not alive when taken from the apartment".

So I will put the question another way: on what basis could Redwood suggest it was possible that Madeleine was dead when taken out of the apartment?
 
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 04:27:40 PM by blonk »

Offline pegasus

Re: Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2016, 04:29:53 PM »
The time between 8.30pm & 10pm is the period during which there were no other occupants besides the 3 children in continuous occupation of the apartment. After Kate & the group returned, there was real eyewitness evidence in the immediate vicinity. It is highly improbable Madeleine left the apartment unnoticed after that time.
But is there any "real eyewitness evidence in the immediate vicinity" that the child left the apartment that evening?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 04:34:06 PM by pegasus »

Offline blonk

Re: Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2016, 04:30:43 PM »
I am puzzled as to why it should be considered 'suspicious' that Madeleine's DNA, her siblings' DNA or anyone who had legitimate access to the apartment during the time of the McCann occupation left traces.

It is suspicious if it is found beneath a tile , which the police had to lift up, below the curtains in the living room where Eddie barked furiously 

Offline Carana

Re: Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2016, 04:38:36 PM »
It is suspicious if it is found beneath a tile , which the police had to lift up, below the curtains in the living room where Eddie barked furiously

Why? If Amaral was correct in stating that there were only 5 components (alleles) found there, it means nothing at all.

The five components could have coincided with those in your profile, or mine, or anyone else's.

Offline misty

Re: Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2016, 05:01:06 PM »
But is there any "real eyewitness evidence in the immediate vicinity" that the child left the apartment that evening?

Well, there was the man seen by JT.................

Offline Brietta

Re: Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2016, 05:08:06 PM »
Well, there was the man seen by JT.................

In my opinion a very compelling event ...
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pegasus

Re: Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2016, 05:18:15 PM »
Well, there was the man seen by JT.................
But he was carrying a 2-year-old Misty. Back to the missing child -
It appears that no-one can post any evidence at all that the child left the apartment before 10pm.


Offline misty

Re: Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2016, 06:07:05 PM »
But he was carrying a 2-year-old Misty. Back to the missing child -
It appears that no-one can post any evidence at all that the child left the apartment before 10pm.

The man carrying the 2 year old child did not match the physical description provided by JT.
We also don't know what this man, who placed himself in the vicinity of 5a at approx 2115hrs, also witnessed in & around Block 5 which allowed SY to move the timeline forward to the Smithman sighting rather than back to 2030hrs.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2016, 06:09:39 PM »
There are 3 possibilities for the specific calendar date of the 3rd:
1) left apartment alive
2) left apartment not alive
3) did not leave apartment
What - ever?!

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2016, 06:13:19 PM »
The man carrying the 2 year old child did not match the physical description provided by JT.
We also don't know what this man, who placed himself in the vicinity of 5a at approx 2115hrs, also witnessed in & around Block 5 which allowed SY to move the timeline forward to the Smithman sighting rather than back to 2030hrs.

It is not possible to move the time back to 20:30 hrs without disbelieving Gerry McCann's visit at 21:00 ish.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey