Was there actual 'evidence' Madeleine might have died in apartment 5a?

[Mr Gray]

I will happily once again answer your challenge - if you will also have the courtesy to answer my earlier challenge - i.e. please provide a cite for where I have ever stated as a fact that there was a 100% DNA match for the body fluids and Madeleine's DNA body. Otherwise please withdraw your allegation.

If you read my reply earlier, I quoted a press report which had Redwood clearly saying that he had a basis for the view that Madeleine had died before she left the apartment. Clearly if he had a basis for saying that, he must have had evidence for making that statement, whether he actually used the word 'evidence' or not. Evidence is of course not proof, as we know.

Here is the actual quote again, the initial source I used:

"Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood admitted that what they have uncovered means Madeleine might not have left the apartment alive".


So my question remains, though I will happily re-phrase it: what is the basis, the evidence, the indications, call it what you will, for thinking, as he said, that 'Madeleine may have been dead before she left the apartment' ?

Doing my best to shine a light on what he did actually say, I note that the flurry of press reports were all dated 19 March 2014 and appear to follow some sort of 'press conference'. Possibly this was in the form of some press briefing, possibly not intended for the cameras, because we appear AFAIK not to have any physical record of his actual words.

What he did actually say appears, now I've checked up on it, not to be entirely clear.

The Guardian amended one of its two 19th March reports two days later - Friday 21 March.

Here is the link:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/19/madeleine-mccann-police-intruder-girls-algarve

...and here is the relevant extract from the report:

QUOTE

• This article was amended on 21 March 2014. The earlier version stated that Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood had said the assumption that Madeleine had been alive when she left the apartment "may not follow with all our thinking" on the case. To clarify: those quoted words actually came after Redwood had referred to the assumption that Madeleine had been abducted. However, Redwood did say during the same press conference that police were considering the possibility that Madeleine was not alive when taken from the apartment as well as the possibility that she was.

UNQUOTE

It looks, then, as though reporters were taking notes or recording his words, and manifestly he said to the reporters that (quote above) "the possibility that Madeleine was not alive when taken from the apartment".

So I will put the question another way: on what basis could Redwood suggest it was possible that Madeleine was dead when taken out of the apartment?
 

So you now accept Redwood never said there was evidence maddie never left the apartment alive...you admit you were wrong. On what basis could Redwood suggest Maddie never left the apartment alive...on the basis  that it is one of the possibilities...as  simple as that...

as regards this.....

please provide a cite for where I have ever stated as a fact that there was a 100% DNA match for the body fluids and Madeleine's DNA body. Otherwise please withdraw your allegation.

I have never said you made that claim...you have a very poor eye for detail...have a look at what I actually said...don't change or embellish it...and then answer the post I made on the subject

[misty]

It is not possible to move the time back to 20:30 hrs without disbelieving Gerry McCann's visit at 21:00 ish.

Of course it is. Is there any evidence GM saw a living, breathing Madeleine at 2105hrs? All he allegedly saw was his daughter lying on top of her bed-covers.

[pegasus]

Maddie may well have died in the apartment but it seems there is no evidence to support this

There is no evidence she left the apartment alive Dave

[Carana]

There is no evidence she left the apartment alive Dave

No, but neither is there any that she didn't.

[jassi]

And round and round we go   

[pegasus]

No, but neither is there any that she didn't.

In fact there is no evidence the child even left the apartment that night even by midnight.

[mercury]

No, but neither is there any that she didn't.

Theres intellgence that it was possible...so more than a "no"

[Mr Gray]

Theres intellgence that it was possible...so more than a "no"

no there isn't....Harrison said nothing could be inferred from the unconfirmed alerts and you have already stated he knows what he is talking about


harrison said......Additionally I consider no inference can be drawn as to whether a human cadaver has previously been in any location without other supporting physical evidence.


mercury said...Harrison didnt "appear" to be anything...he was involved in the dogs initial training..he knew what he was talking about 100%

[mercury]

There is no forensic test for remnant cadaver scent

In relation to the dead body scent if such a scent is indicated by the EVRD and no body is located it may suggest that a body has been in the property but removed.

Mark Harrison

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P9/09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2227.jpg

[Mr Gray]

There is no forensic test for remnant cadaver scent

In relation to the dead body scent if such a scent is indicated by the EVRD and no body is located it may suggest that a body has been in the property but removed.

Mark Harrison

yes...may suggest...just may....he was absolutely definite with the quote I posted,....no inference...as in non whatsoever

[mercury]

Suggest means indicate...therefore there is intelligence that indicates the possibility that a body was removed, I was right with what I said to Carana, end of

[Mr Gray]

Suggest means indicate...therefore there is intelligence that indicates the possibility that a body was removed, I was right with what I said to Carana, end of

you are drawing an inference from the alerts...harrison said no inference can be drawn.....it may well be that there was a body in 5a...but no inference can be drawn from the alert...that is unequivocal

[mercury]

Sorry you cant follow the obvious logic davel, have another go


A cadaver dog alert may suggest remnant scent from a body which was removed
No inference without physical evidence can be made
There is no physical evidence of remnant scent
Therefore we are left with the distinct possibility at least that remnant scent of a body was alerted to
Not rocket science..its called "intellgence" and also circumstantial evidence

[Mr Gray]

Sorry you cant follow the obvious logic davel, have another go


A cadaver dog alert may suggest remnant scent from a body which was removed
No inference without physical evidence can be made
There is no physical evidence of remnant scent
Therefore we are left with the distinct possibility at least that remnant scent of a body was alerted to
Not rocket science..its called "intellgence" and also circumstantial evidence

it is not circumstantial evidence...it isn't any kind of evidence...according to harrison and grime. I agree it is possible the dog alerted to remnant scent...but possibly the dog didn't...no one knows..that is what makes the alerts useless

Neither Grime nor Harrison use the term distinct possibility....you are embroidering the facts to make them look better

[Alice Purjorick]

Of course it is. Is there any evidence GM saw a living, breathing Madeleine at 2105hrs? All he allegedly saw was his daughter lying on top of her bed-covers.

That situation and its logical extension is certainly an interesting proposition.