Jeremy Bamber - The case in a nutshell.

[scipio_usmc]

I don't agree with this.

Neville comes up the stairs, receives the first two shots to the jaw, then retreats back down the stairs first by revolving his body to the other direction. During this scenario Neville exposes all necessary parts of his body for the killer to shoot him in the locations he was shot at.

Anschutz 525 Ejects the cases forward, The absence of shell casings and blood on nevills side of the bed combined with the fact the shells are close to the door and hall, is perfectly consistent with Holly's scenario.

https://youtu.be/Bgz0lqGVouo?t=20s

Both of you are being extremely hypocritical and making pathetic arguments.

Both of you say there was no blood in the bedroom from Nevill so he had to have been shot on the stairs. They didn't test most of the blood in the bedroom so you have no idea if there was any blood or not.  His blood was not found on the stairs though.  How come he could be shot on the stairs and not bleed profusely on the step carpeting but it is impossible for him to be shot in the bedroom without bleeding profusely on the floor?  This is a perfect example of how poorly reasoned your claims are.  They are poorly reasoned because you are just making up excuses to try to pretend Nevill wasn't shot in the bedroom because Nevill being shot in the bedroom ends the farce you two try to present of Jeremy being innocent.  You are stuck making up any BS you can for the sake of pretense.  That results in wild inconsistency and claims that fail to make any sense.  If he was shot in the bedroom he would have left large amounts of blood there but if shot on the stairs he would not.  How stupid do you think people are?   This takes care of the blood nonsense.

Next comes the wound trajectories.  Do you and Holly understand the difference between left and right?  Someone walking up the stairs has their left side to Sheila's room and their right side to the master bedroom.  Someone shooting from the master bedroom would be firing the bullets from the person's right side. It is patently absurd to claim that someone firing from the right side of the victim would be able to shoot the victim's left side. The main reason why Holly is so desperate to pretend he was shot on the stairs as opposed to after walking in the bedroom is because if Nevill and Sheila were on the same level then in order to shoot Nevill's lip and jaw she would have to have aimed upwards and thus the trajectory of the bullets would be up instead of down. The same is true of the shoulder wound for that matter.  There are only two possibilities:

1) the shooter was a higher level than Nevill

or

2) Nevill was not fully upright when shot

Sheila standing on a chair doesn't sound credible so Holly decided to go with Nevill on the stairs so that this put him at a lower position than Sheila so that she would have to aim down instead of up.  That's why she made up him being shot on the stairs instead of on the same level walking into the bedroom.

You seem to suggest that he was shot while walking in the bedroom which fails to deal with the problem of the downward trajectories for these 3 wounds.  Furthermore you suggest the 4th graze wound happened as he was turning around to walk back out to get away. If that were the case then the bullet that grazed him wound have been found in the hall instead of the bedroom. The only way for the graze wound to be delivered while he was in the doorway with the bullet landing in the bedroom would be if the killer was by Sheila's room firing at him so that the bullet would graze him and land in the bedroom.  But in that instance his right side would be exposed to the killer not his left so it still doesn't work. Furthermore the casing would have flown down the stairs. 

As for the other casings you and Holly are hopelessly wrong.  You make it sound as if the casings go in practically the same direction as the bullets. The spent shells fly RIGHT and forward not straight forward.  In clock terms they eject between 2 and 2:30.  If you prefer map direction they eject Northeast.

Shooting at Nevill's side of the bed results in the casings landing on June's side of the bed, hitting the wall behind June's side and deflecting into the corner, or landing right next to June's side of the bed.  The precise angle of the shot will determine which of these 3 paths the casing will take.

When June got out of bed any that were on the bed could have fallen off. In any event one casing was on the bed on her side. The other 3 associated with Nevill's wounds were in the corner by her side of the bed which is where they would be expected to land if they were knocked off the bed or bounced off the bed or wall. If the shooter was angled enough they could land there naturally without deflecting even. 

Someone shooting towards the door would have the casings land in the corner near the chair but no casings were there:



Standing on the landing shooting at someone down the stairs would result in the casings landing down on the ground level or the steps near the ground level.

The casing locations are not in the least bit supportive of your account or Holly's they are consistent with Nevill being shot while sitting on his side of the bed.  The trajectory of the 3 down wounds and the fact the left side was targeted is fully consistent with being shot on his side of the bed. The bullet that grazed him seems to have ricocheted to land where it did, there is no way for it to get there without ricocheting unless the killer on June's side of the bed in the corner behind the door and Nevill was on June's side of the bed being shot at close range which seems rather unlikely. It makes no sense for the killer to run to the corner to hide.  But even if that did happen it would be him getting shot as he was trying to leave after already being shot on the bed 3 times.

Shooting at June as she is in bed results in shells getting into the corner.  Shooting as she was getting out of bed or after she was out of the bed results in the shells landing closer to the door. 2 shots were received as she was getting out of bed or was out of the bed but still next to it and there were 2 casings by the door where they would be expected to be.  The shell on the transition strip was associated with the shot between her eyes most likely.



The only mystery at all is the graze wound. That's the one that makes no sense of the location unless it ricocheted. Did it ricochet before or after it struck Nevill is a big question and there is no way to know. The shell casings have no ability to clear that up. So it is actually possible that the 8th wound was a miss and grazed him simply by ricocheting. It is not possible to know whether he was standing or not when hit by the graze wound either.   

It's clear that Nevill was shot 3 times while on the bed or as he was in the process of getting up from the bed. Whether he was standing fully upright or not at the time of the graze wound is unclear and will never be known nor can we tell precisely where in the room he was since a ricochet by definition makes such difficult to tell.     

[Holly Goodhead]

AMBER WARNING

Some posts on this thread are getting close to breaking one of the three high level forum rules stated on the home page:

* Abuse will not be tolerated. Break the rules expect a ban!

These posts are certainly not in keeping with the spirit of the forum.  Please refrain from using ANY inflammatory language aimed at posters and/or the content of their posts eg: BS, hypocrite, nonsense, pathetic, stupid, zealot etc.  Where posters disagree with a post, simply state you disagree giving your reasons why.

Thank you for your cooperation. 

[John]

AMBER WARNING

Some posts on this thread are getting close to breaking one of the three high level forum rules stated on the home page:

* Abuse will not be tolerated. Break the rules expect a ban!

These posts are certainly not in keeping with the spirit of the forum.  Please refrain from using ANY inflammatory language aimed at posters and/or the content of their posts eg: BS, hypocrite, nonsense, pathetic, stupid, zealot etc.  Where posters disagree with a post, simply state you disagree giving your reasons why.

Thank you for your cooperation.

I quite agree Holly, members please note!!

ps  Mods please fell free to remove offending remarks.

[Holly Goodhead]

Both of you are being extremely hypocritical and making pathetic arguments.

Both of you say there was no blood in the bedroom from Nevill so he had to have been shot on the stairs. They didn't test most of the blood in the bedroom so you have no idea if there was any blood or not.  His blood was not found on the stairs though.  How come he could be shot on the stairs and not bleed profusely on the step carpeting but it is impossible for him to be shot in the bedroom without bleeding profusely on the floor?  This is a perfect example of how poorly reasoned your claims are.  They are poorly reasoned because you are just making up excuses to try to pretend Nevill wasn't shot in the bedroom because Nevill being shot in the bedroom ends the farce you two try to present of Jeremy being innocent.  You are stuck making up any BS you can for the sake of pretense.  That results in wild inconsistency and claims that fail to make any sense.  If he was shot in the bedroom he would have left large amounts of blood there but if shot on the stairs he would not.  How stupid do you think people are?   This takes care of the blood nonsense.

Next comes the wound trajectories.  Do you and Holly understand the difference between left and right?  Someone walking up the stairs has their left side to Sheila's room and their right side to the master bedroom.  Someone shooting from the master bedroom would be firing the bullets from the person's right side. It is patently absurd to claim that someone firing from the right side of the victim would be able to shoot the victim's left side. The main reason why Holly is so desperate to pretend he was shot on the stairs as opposed to after walking in the bedroom is because if Nevill and Sheila were on the same level then in order to shoot Nevill's lip and jaw she would have to have aimed upwards and thus the trajectory of the bullets would be up instead of down. The same is true of the shoulder wound for that matter.  There are only two possibilities:

1) the shooter was a higher level than Nevill

or

2) Nevill was not fully upright when shot

Sheila standing on a chair doesn't sound credible so Holly decided to go with Nevill on the stairs so that this put him at a lower position than Sheila so that she would have to aim down instead of up.  That's why she made up him being shot on the stairs instead of on the same level walking into the bedroom.

You seem to suggest that he was shot while walking in the bedroom which fails to deal with the problem of the downward trajectories for these 3 wounds.  Furthermore you suggest the 4th graze wound happened as he was turning around to walk back out to get away. If that were the case then the bullet that grazed him wound have been found in the hall instead of the bedroom. The only way for the graze wound to be delivered while he was in the doorway with the bullet landing in the bedroom would be if the killer was by Sheila's room firing at him so that the bullet would graze him and land in the bedroom.  But in that instance his right side would be exposed to the killer not his left so it still doesn't work. Furthermore the casing would have flown down the stairs. 

As for the other casings you and Holly are hopelessly wrong.  You make it sound as if the casings go in practically the same direction as the bullets. The spent shells fly RIGHT and forward not straight forward.  In clock terms they eject between 2 and 2:30.  If you prefer map direction they eject Northeast.

Shooting at Nevill's side of the bed results in the casings landing on June's side of the bed, hitting the wall behind June's side and deflecting into the corner, or landing right next to June's side of the bed.  The precise angle of the shot will determine which of these 3 paths the casing will take.

When June got out of bed any that were on the bed could have fallen off. In any event one casing was on the bed on her side. The other 3 associated with Nevill's wounds were in the corner by her side of the bed which is where they would be expected to land if they were knocked off the bed or bounced off the bed or wall. If the shooter was angled enough they could land there naturally without deflecting even. 

Someone shooting towards the door would have the casings land in the corner near the chair but no casings were there:



Standing on the landing shooting at someone down the stairs would result in the casings landing down on the ground level or the steps near the ground level.

The casing locations are not in the least bit supportive of your account or Holly's they are consistent with Nevill being shot while sitting on his side of the bed.  The trajectory of the 3 down wounds and the fact the left side was targeted is fully consistent with being shot on his side of the bed. The bullet that grazed him seems to have ricocheted to land where it did, there is no way for it to get there without ricocheting unless the killer on June's side of the bed in the corner behind the door and Nevill was on June's side of the bed being shot at close range which seems rather unlikely. It makes no sense for the killer to run to the corner to hide.  But even if that did happen it would be him getting shot as he was trying to leave after already being shot on the bed 3 times.

Shooting at June as she is in bed results in shells getting into the corner.  Shooting as she was getting out of bed or after she was out of the bed results in the shells landing closer to the door. 2 shots were received as she was getting out of bed or was out of the bed but still next to it and there were 2 casings by the door where they would be expected to be.  The shell on the transition strip was associated with the shot between her eyes most likely.



The only mystery at all is the graze wound. That's the one that makes no sense of the location unless it ricocheted. Did it ricochet before or after it struck Nevill is a big question and there is no way to know. The shell casings have no ability to clear that up. So it is actually possible that the 8th wound was a miss and grazed him simply by ricocheting. It is not possible to know whether he was standing or not when hit by the graze wound either.   

It's clear that Nevill was shot 3 times while on the bed or as he was in the process of getting up from the bed. Whether he was standing fully upright or not at the time of the graze wound is unclear and will never be known nor can we tell precisely where in the room he was since a ricochet by definition makes such difficult to tell.   

I haven't claimed NB was shot coming up the main stairs.  I believe NB sustained the two facial shots whilst situated on the landing steps facing the entrance to the main bedroom door with the perp and ejection port of rifle just within the entrance of the main bedroom. I believe NB then turned and fled down the main staircase with the perp behind him.  At this point he sustained the shoulder and elbow shots. This fits with the:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg25947#msg25947

-  trajectory of shots, 20 degrees below the horizontal: NB slightly lower than perp.

-  casings ejecting slightly forward and to the right although flight could be impeded by any objects eg right angle of main bedroom walls.  I believe casings DRH/3 and DRH/4 pertain to the facial shots and casings DRH/13 and DRH/14 pertain to the shoulder and elbow shots.

- none of NB's blood was found in the bedroom.  Two small blood stains were found on the landing although it's unclear whose blood it was.  AE's WS states EP washed and removed blood staining from the carpet on the stairs.  No mention of blood staining on hall carpet.  A light distribution of blood staining was found on the kitchen floor leading to where NB was found.  It seems there was a trail of blood from the landing leading to where NB was found:

Two blood stained carpet samples were taken from the landing DRH/47 and DRH/49.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=221

According to AE's WS EP pointed out some blood on the stairs:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=3100

There was also a "light distribution" on the kitchen floor:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=216;image

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=217

I will endeavour to get a 3d computer animated model drawn up in the near future, copyrighted of course    Noone is getting their grubby paws on my intellectual property 

Why didn't JB's useless defence (yes that's you Paul Terzeon and Geoffrey Rivlin) get to grips with all of this pre trial? 

[Myster]

I washed my paws beforehand... https://vimeo.com/163370051 

[Holly Goodhead]

I washed my paws beforehand... https://vimeo.com/163370051 

Excellent start, thanks   

[Myster]

Excellent start, thanks 

Here's something else for you to ponder  &%+((£ ... https://vimeo.com/163391502

[APRIL]

Here's something else for you to ponder  &%+((£ ... https://vimeo.com/163391502

Oooh! TA for those, Myster. Seeing it helps me to clarify in my own mind. Any more where those came from?

[Myster]

Oooh! TA for those, Myster. Seeing it helps me to clarify in my own mind. Any more where those came from?

Some screenshots from a SketchUp drawing of WHF, based on the original scaled plans (as near as possible). There are differences in types of doors, furniture, etc. and a missing change in level in the Main Hall which was a pain to try and include. The rifle and magazine are shown where Jeremy Bamber said he left them, by and on the settle, but which obviously weren't there after the incident. Try not to increase the picture size, as Dropbox makes them appear grainy if you do...

https://www.dropbox.com/home/WHF%203D

[Myster]

Some screenshots from a SketchUp drawing of WHF, based on the original scaled plans (as near as possible). There are differences in types of doors, furniture, etc. and a missing change in level in the Main Hall which was a pain to try and include. The rifle and magazine are shown where Jeremy Bamber said he left them, by and on the settle, but which obviously weren't there after the incident. Try not to increase the picture size, as Dropbox makes them appear grainy if you do...

https://www.dropbox.com/home/WHF%203D

Just found out that you can click on Open at the top right when viewing each pic and the result doesn't look too bad.

[scipio_usmc]

I haven't claimed NB was shot coming up the main stairs.  I believe NB sustained the two facial shots whilst situated on the landing steps facing the entrance to the main bedroom door with the perp and ejection port of rifle just within the entrance of the main bedroom.

This fits with the:

-  trajectory of shots, 20 degrees below the horizontal: NB slightly lower than perp.

You are contradicting yourself.  The landing is not a step it is the hallway floor which is the same exact height as the bedroom floor.  Your drawing featured Nevill being shot on the steps not in the hall.   

Nevill being shot while standing outside the bedroom door would not enable someone shorter than him to shoot him in the face at a downward angle unless the shooter was standing on something.  Moreover, the shooter was positioned between 9:30 and 10:30 while shooting Nevill in the face.  No shooter could accomplish such from right inside the door they would have to be near the corner of the room.

   

The red shows the bullet trajectory in order to shoot the person entering. The yellow shows the trajectory of the casings.  Standing in such location would not enable to killer to fire at Nevill at a downward angle.

I believe NB then turned and fled down the main staircase with the perp behind him.  At this point he sustained the shoulder and elbow shots.

For the 100th time, Nevill's graze wound and the shot to his shoulder were not fired at his back.  The killer was at 8 O'clock to 8:45 when the shoulder shot and graze wounds were delivered.  It is totally impossible for someone standing in  the 6 O'clock position to achieve such trajectories.

A 3 dimensional image would show the trajectories much better because all angles can be shown but it is what it is:



Apart from the angle being impossible to achieve, if the bullet that grazed Nevill had been fired while he was on the stairs then such bullet would have been on the stairs or at the bottom of the stairs not inside the bedroom.

You totally ignored the evidence and simply made up that he was shot entering the bedroom and on the stairs because you want to pretend that Nevill called Jeremy while Sheila went upstairs and shot June then he heard the shots and ran upstairs to check things out.  You made such up without regard to the evidence and are now trying to find ways to distort to pretend evidence supports this made up account. The evidence doesn't support it whatsoever.  The trajectories can't be achieved you claims are impossible.

-  casings ejecting slightly forward and to the right although flight could be impeded by any objects eg right angle of main bedroom walls.  I believe casings DRH/3 and DRH/4 pertain to the facial shots and casings DRH/13 and DRH/14 pertain to the shoulder and elbow shots.

Firing down the stairs would result in the casings being ejected to the bottom stairs or even ending up on the ground floor.  Your suggestion that DRH/13 would eject not down the stairs to the right but rather directly to the left of the weapon is patently absurd. DRH/14 is on the wrong side of the landing and we know it is from the kitchen.  One casing from the kitchen was missing and this was the only casing that was out of place so has to be that casing.

DRH/3 and 4 deflecting forward left off the wall (the wall that is directly to the right of the doorway) would result in them landing near June's side of the bed.  The trajectories of the bullets don't fit nor does the locaiton of the casings your suggestions are not the least bit possible.

- none of NB's blood was found in the bedroom.  Two small blood stains were found on the landing although it's unclear whose blood it was.  AE's WS states EP washed and removed blood staining from the carpet on the stairs.  No mention of blood staining on hall carpet.  A light distribution of blood staining was found on the kitchen floor leading to where NB was found.  It seems there was a trail of blood from the landing leading to where NB was found:

Two blood stained carpet samples were taken from the landing DRH/47 and DRH/49.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=221

According to AE's WS EP pointed out some blood on the stairs:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=3100

There was also a "light distribution" on the kitchen floor:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=216;image

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=217

I will endeavour to get a 3d computer animated model drawn up in the near future, copyrighted of course    Noone is getting their grubby paws on my intellectual property 

Why didn't JB's useless defence (yes that's you Paul Terzeon and Geoffrey Rivlin) get to grips with all of this pre trial?

You are making things up and your made up things could not be used by the defense.  There wasn't a trail of blood on the stairs. They found the 2 static drops in the hall that they took and tested. DRH/49 was group O while DRH/47 was inconclusive.  DRH/49 got there either by Nevill walking to Sheila's room and then turning around and running downstairs instead or it dripped off the killer/weapon after the Kitchen episode when the killer went to get Sheila.

You are so biased that time after time after time you IGNORE that they didn't test the blood stained bedding NOR did they take all the blood from the bedroom carpet they only took 2 swatches leaving the rest of the blood stained carpet.  They only tested 5 stains on each swatch not all of them thus there is no way to know if the other blood on the swatches that went untested was Nevill's.  Nor is there anyway to know if Nevill's blood was on the bedding since it was not testing.  Nor is there any way to know if the blood stained carpet that remained had any of Nevill's blood since it was not tested.  When you insist that Nevill's blood definitely wasn't in the bedroom that is a false claim.  There was a considerable amount of blood that went untested int he bedroom. The defense had no ability to say Neivll's blood definitely wasn't int he bedroom since there was untested blood that could have been his.

Moreover, the defense had no experts who would opine that Nevill had to bleed profusely on the bed or carpet. His clothing soaked up the blood from his shoulder wound, his graze wound did not cause any bleeding.  His lip and jaw wounds caused mainly internal bleeding, the external bleeding dripped on him mainly. There was no way to say that there would have to be much blood in the bedroom and no way to establish for sure his blood wasn't in there.

Testing 5 drops from a swatch with 20 proves who those 5 drops belong to it doesn't prove who the 15 untested drops belong to.  it can be used to establish the person the 5 belonged to was standing over the swatch it can't prove that no one else was standing there as well.  You always hold out evidence as proving things it doesn't.

You don't follow the evidence where it leads.  You make up what you want to believe then strain to try to make the evidence fit.

This has a simplistic legend which shows the position of the shooter and Nevill as well as the trajectory of the casings in yellow. This is the horizontal angle of the face wounds. You simply superimpose this anywhere in the house you want and it will show where the killer would have to be to shoot Nevill if he were in such location.  What this fails to show is the vertical angle this is just the horizontal. The vertical angle was downward which means the killer was at a higher level than Neville or Nevill was not fully upright when shot. You have to account for both the vertical and horizontal.



This shows the angle of the other 2 shots and in fact the angle is probably closer to the 9 "Oclock position than this, this is the furthest exten from 9 tha tis possible:



With respect to the vertical angle the shoulder shot again Nevill was not fully upright or the killer was higher. The graze wound is low enough that it is possible to inflict while Nevill and the killer are both on the same level both fully upright even if the killer were shorter.

Your claims hold no water that is why the defense didn't make such claims at trial.

[Myster]

Some screenshots from a SketchUp drawing of WHF, based on the original scaled plans (as near as possible). There are differences in types of doors, furniture, etc. and a missing change in level in the Main Hall which was a pain to try and include. The rifle and magazine are shown where Jeremy Bamber said he left them, by and on the settle, but which obviously weren't there after the incident. Try not to increase the picture size, as Dropbox makes them appear grainy if you do...

https://www.dropbox.com/home/WHF%203D

I'm not sure whether you need to sign up to Dropbox or be a member already in order to view images, so this link to Imgur might be more suitable as I think you can see them without joining... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg322394#msg322394

If you still can't see any, PM me and I'll attempt to upload the images directly to the White House Farm - Floor plans and photos section.

[APRIL]

I'm not sure whether you need to sign up to Dropbox or be a member already in order to view images, so this link to Imgur might be more suitable as I think you can see them without joining... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg322394#msg322394

If you still can't see any, PM me and I'll attempt to upload the images directly to the White House Farm - Floor plans and photos section.

Cheers, Myster. That one works well.

[Holly Goodhead]

You are contradicting yourself.  The landing is not a step it is the hallway floor which is the same exact height as the bedroom floor.  Your drawing featured Nevill being shot on the steps not in the hall.   

Nevill being shot while standing outside the bedroom door would not enable someone shorter than him to shoot him in the face at a downward angle unless the shooter was standing on something.  Moreover, the shooter was positioned between 9:30 and 10:30 while shooting Nevill in the face.  No shooter could accomplish such from right inside the door they would have to be near the corner of the room.

   

The red shows the bullet trajectory in order to shoot the person entering. The yellow shows the trajectory of the casings.  Standing in such location would not enable to killer to fire at Nevill at a downward angle.

For the 100th time, Nevill's graze wound and the shot to his shoulder were not fired at his back.  The killer was at 8 O'clock to 8:45 when the shoulder shot and graze wounds were delivered.  It is totally impossible for someone standing in  the 6 O'clock position to achieve such trajectories.

A 3 dimensional image would show the trajectories much better because all angles can be shown but it is what it is:



Apart from the angle being impossible to achieve, if the bullet that grazed Nevill had been fired while he was on the stairs then such bullet would have been on the stairs or at the bottom of the stairs not inside the bedroom.

You totally ignored the evidence and simply made up that he was shot entering the bedroom and on the stairs because you want to pretend that Nevill called Jeremy while Sheila went upstairs and shot June then he heard the shots and ran upstairs to check things out.  You made such upwithout regard to the evidence and are now trying to find ways to distort to pretend evidence supports this made up account. The evidence doesn't support it whatsoever.  The trajectories can't be achieved you claims are impossible.


Firing down the stairs would result in the casings being ejected to the bottom stairs or even ending up on the ground floor.  Your suggestion that DRH/13 would eject not down the stairs to the right but rather directly to the left of the weapon is patently absurd. DRH/14 is on the wrong side of the landing and we know it is from the kitchen.  One casing from the kitchen was missing and this was the only casing that was out of place so has to be that casing.

DRH/3 and 4 deflecting forward left off the wall (the wall that is directly to the right of the doorway) would result in them landing near June's side of the bed.  The trajectories of the bullets don't fit nor does the locaiton of the casings your suggestions are not the least bit possible.

You are making things up and your made up things could not be used by the defense.  There wasn't a trail of blood on the stairs. They found the 2 static drops in the hall that they took and tested. DRH/49 was group O while DRH/47 was inconclusive.  DRH/49 got there either by Nevill walking to Sheila's room and then turning around and running downstairs instead or it dripped off the killer/weapon after the Kitchen episode when the killer went to get Sheila.

You are so biased that time after time after time you IGNORE that they didn't test the blood stained bedding NOR did they take all the blood from the bedroom carpet they only took 2 swatches leaving the rest of the blood stained carpet.  They only tested 5 stains on each swatch not all of them thus there is no way to know if the other blood on the swatches that went untested was Nevill's.  Nor is there anyway to know if Nevill's blood was on the bedding since it was not testing.  Nor is there any way to know if the blood stained carpet that remained had any of Nevill's blood since it was not tested.  When you insist that Nevill's blood definitely wasn't in the bedroom that is a false claim.  There was a considerable amount of blood that went untested int he bedroom. The defense had no ability to say Neivll's blood definitely wasn't int he bedroom since there was untested blood that could have been his.

Moreover, the defense had no experts who would opine that Nevill had to bleed profusely on the bed or carpet. His clothing soaked up the blood from his shoulder wound, his graze wound did not cause any bleeding.  His lip and jaw wounds caused mainly internal bleeding, the external bleeding dripped on him mainly. There was no way to say that there would have to be much blood in the bedroom and no way to establish for sure his blood wasn't in there.

Testing 5 drops from a swatch with 20 proves who those 5 drops belong to it doesn't prove who the 15 untested drops belong to.  it can be used to establish the person the 5 belonged to was standing over the swatch it can't prove that no one else was standing there as well.  You always hold out evidence as proving things it doesn't.

You don't follow the evidence where it leads.  You make up what you want to believe then strain to try to make the evidence fit.

This has a simplistic legend which shows the position of the shooter and Nevill as well as the trajectory of the casings in yellow. This is the horizontal angle of the face wounds. You simply superimpose this anywhere in the house you want and it will show where the killer would have to be to shoot Nevill if he were in such location.  What this fails to show is the vertical angle this is just the horizontal. The vertical angle was downward which means the killer was at a higher level than Neville or Nevill was not fully upright when shot. You have to account for both the vertical and horizontal.



This shows the angle of the other 2 shots and in fact the angle is probably closer to the 9 "Oclock position than this, this is the furthest exten from 9 tha tis possible:



With respect to the vertical angle the shoulder shot again Nevill was not fully upright or the killer was higher. The graze wound is low enough that it is possible to inflict while Nevill and the killer are both on the same level both fully upright even if the killer were shorter.

Your claims hold no water that is why the defense didn't make such claims at trial.

Scipio I've recently posted a polite warning about the use of inflammatory language in posts:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7135.msg321282#msg321282

I've highlighted text in your post above where you have used language/phrases that many will consider inflammatory.  Please refer to my post here and note how I stick to the case only:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7135.msg321827#msg321827

Many of your paragraphs above start off with the word "You" or "Your" eg:

"You are contradicting yourself"

"You totally ignored the evidence"

"You are making things up"

"You are so biased"

"You don't follow the evidence"

"Your claims hold no water"

The fact others do not share your views on the case does not mean they are biased, making things up etc.

Please drop all personal comments and stick to debating the case only.  I welcome the fact you do not share my views on the case but debate must be civil and respect opposing views.

In future any posts containing inflammatory language/phrases such as the above will be edited but I trust this will not be necessary.   

I will respond to the case related aspects of your post later.

[Holly Goodhead]

You are contradicting yourself.  The landing is not a step it is the hallway floor which is the same exact height as the bedroom floor.  Your drawing featured Nevill being shot on the steps not in the hall.   

Nevill being shot while standing outside the bedroom door would not enable someone shorter than him to shoot him in the face at a downward angle unless the shooter was standing on something.  Moreover, the shooter was positioned between 9:30 and 10:30 while shooting Nevill in the face.  No shooter could accomplish such from right inside the door they would have to be near the corner of the room.

The layout diagram of WHF shows two oblong shapes preceding the entrance to the main bedroom indicative of two stairs:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg25947#msg25947

AE's WS refers to reaching the landing and going up a few steps and turning right into the main bedroom:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=3100;image

There's also a photo showing a sloping handrail leading up to the main bedroom:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5920

The red shows the bullet trajectory in order to shoot the person entering. The yellow shows the trajectory of the casings.  Standing in such location would not enable to killer to fire at Nevill at a downward angle.

For the 100th time, Nevill's graze wound and the shot to his shoulder were not fired at his back.  The killer was at 8 O'clock to 8:45 when the shoulder shot and graze wounds were delivered.  It is totally impossible for someone standing in  the 6 O'clock position to achieve such trajectories.

A 3 dimensional image would show the trajectories much better because all angles can be shown but it is what it is:



Apart from the angle being impossible to achieve, if the bullet that grazed Nevill had been fired while he was on the stairs then such bullet would have been on the stairs or at the bottom of the stairs not inside the bedroom.

You totally ignored the evidence and simply made up that he was shot entering the bedroom and on the stairs because you want to pretend that Nevill called Jeremy while Sheila went upstairs and shot June then he heard the shots and ran upstairs to check things out.  You made such up without regard to the evidence and are now trying to find ways to distort to pretend evidence supports this made up account. The evidence doesn't support it whatsoever.  The trajectories can't be achieved you claims are impossible.

Firing down the stairs would result in the casings being ejected to the bottom stairs or even ending up on the ground floor.  Your suggestion that DRH/13 would eject not down the stairs to the right but rather directly to the left of the weapon is patently absurd. DRH/14 is on the wrong side of the landing and we know it is from the kitchen.  One casing from the kitchen was missing and this was the only casing that was out of place so has to be that casing.

DRH/3 and 4 deflecting forward left off the wall (the wall that is directly to the right of the doorway) would result in them landing near June's side of the bed.  The trajectories of the bullets don't fit nor does the locaiton of the casings your suggestions are not the least bit possible.

I believe NB was stood in the area where the handrail turns or maybe on the first step and this is where he sustained the facial shots with the perp firing from inside the main bedroom.  The ejection port is within the bedroom with the casings ejected slightly upwards and to the right hence DRH/3 and DRH/4 are located just inside the main bedroom.  The following photo shows this is a distinct possibility:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5920

This is the most plausible explanation for the trajectory of the facial shots ie 20 degrees below the horizontal.

I believe the shots to NB's shoulder and elbow were sustained whilst NB had turned and was facing down the main staircase with the perp behind him.  The pathologist's report states:

Entry wound measuring 3/16" situated 1 1/4" below the point of the left shoulder on its outer aspect.  The track of this wound was downwards causing a comminuted fracture of the upper third of the humerus with considerable overlapping of the fractured from soft tissue near the fracture site.

Oblique grazing wound measuring 1/2" situated 4" above the left elbow and associated with surrounding bruising.  The track of this wound was from the left arm and against the left side of the lower chest causing a 1 1/2" graze with a curved edge which was 3/16" in width.  The radiograph showed fragments of a bullet in the left lower chest although these could not be located within the body cavity.

The above relates to wounds 7 and 8.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=676

Image of humerus below.

It seems to me NB sustained the grazing wound when the perp was behind him since it bruised his left elbow and bullet fragments were found in his chest cavity.  I can't see how these injuries occurred from any other direction? 

Again with the casings ejected slightly upwards and to the right I believe casings DRH/13 and DRH/14 landed on the transition strip to the main bedroom and the landing.

You are making things up and your made up things could not be used by the defense.  There wasn't a trail of blood on the stairs. They found the 2 static drops in the hall that they took and tested. DRH/49 was group O while DRH/47 was inconclusive.  DRH/49 got there either by Nevill walking to Sheila's room and then turning around and running downstairs instead or it dripped off the killer/weapon after the Kitchen episode when the killer went to get Sheila.

You are so biased that time after time after time you IGNORE that they didn't test the blood stained bedding NOR did they take all the blood from the bedroom carpet they only took 2 swatches leaving the rest of the blood stained carpet.  They only tested 5 stains on each swatch not all of them thus there is no way to know if the other blood on the swatches that went untested was Nevill's.  Nor is there anyway to know if Nevill's blood was on the bedding since it was not testing.  Nor is there any way to know if the blood stained carpet that remained had any of Nevill's blood since it was not tested.  When you insist that Nevill's blood definitely wasn't in the bedroom that is a false claim.  There was a considerable amount of blood that went untested int he bedroom. The defense had no ability to say Neivll's blood definitely wasn't int he bedroom since there was untested blood that could have been his.

Moreover, the defense had no experts who would opine that Nevill had to bleed profusely on the bed or carpet. His clothing soaked up the blood from his shoulder wound, his graze wound did not cause any bleeding.  His lip and jaw wounds caused mainly internal bleeding, the external bleeding dripped on him mainly. There was no way to say that there would have to be much blood in the bedroom and no way to establish for sure his blood wasn't in there.

Testing 5 drops from a swatch with 20 proves who those 5 drops belong to it doesn't prove who the 15 untested drops belong to.  it can be used to establish the person the 5 belonged to was standing over the swatch it can't prove that no one else was standing there as well.  You always hold out evidence as proving things it doesn't.

You don't follow the evidence where it leads.  You make up what you want to believe then strain to try to make the evidence fit.

This has a simplistic legend which shows the position of the shooter and Nevill as well as the trajectory of the casings in yellow. This is the horizontal angle of the face wounds. You simply superimpose this anywhere in the house you want and it will show where the killer would have to be to shoot Nevill if he were in such location.  What this fails to show is the vertical angle this is just the horizontal. The vertical angle was downward which means the killer was at a higher level than Neville or Nevill was not fully upright when shot. You have to account for both the vertical and horizontal.



This shows the angle of the other 2 shots and in fact the angle is probably closer to the 9 "Oclock position than this, this is the furthest exten from 9 tha tis possible:



With respect to the vertical angle the shoulder shot again Nevill was not fully upright or the killer was higher. The graze wound is low enough that it is possible to inflict while Nevill and the killer are both on the same level both fully upright even if the killer were shorter.

Your claims hold no water that is why the defense didn't make such claims at trial.

Scipio as far as I can recall I've only ever stated no evidence exits of NB's blood in the bedroom?  The two blood stains on the landing carpet DRH/47 and DRH/49 were inconclusive.  The lab required two positives to confirm a conclusive result.  They were only able to get an 'A' and 'O' grouping result on the carpet samples from the landing.  NB's grouping was 'O' and June's 'A'. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=276.0;attach=933

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7083.msg313916#msg313916

According to AE, EP cleaned and removed blood from the carpet on the stairs.  No mention of the hall carpet (area leading from bottom of stairs to kitchen).  A light distribution of blood was found on the kitchen floor:

Two blood stained carpet samples were taken from the landing DRH/47 and DRH/49.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=221

According to AE's WS EP pointed out some blood on the stairs:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=3100

There was also a "light distribution" on the kitchen floor:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=216

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=217