The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.

[Eleanor]

Well count your blessings.

I hope you never have the misfortune to be burgled.

Oh I do, Stephen, I do.

But I was burgled in England, several times.  All of my much loved and long collected antique jewellery, all gone.  And sadly, it was under insured.  But that was my fault.  I just didn't see it coming.  Not that money could have replaced it.  Most of it was irreplaceable.
But that's Brits for you.

[John]

i remember reading an article in the early days where Gerry said he felt like Luz was similar to a seaside town in the 509's ...quiet and safe...he was wrong.
Despite what everyone says the McCanns thought what they did was safe...they were wrong....what's the point in going over it again and again 9 years later

Could it be that they and the other guests were misled?

[stephen25000]

Could it be that they and the other guests were misled?

Misled ?

How exactly ?

[Lace]

it wasn't just the McCann's who thought it was safe,  I read a cleaner said many holiday makers left their doors open during the day.

[Eleanor]

Could it be that they and the other guests were misled?

What is Misled?  They weren't warned because it would have been bad for publicity and the image.  But not one single person expected a child to be stolen.

What price a passport or personal belongings?  Absolutely no one saw this coming.  Least of all The McCanns or Mark Warner.

There is only one person to blame.  The person who stole Madeleine.

[stephen25000]

That is your belief.

It isn't a FACT.

[Brietta]

You need to think about what the Ocean Club was and is.

Mark Warner bought the OC around late 2006 for €1.85 million.  The figure would not buy you block 5, let alone what most people think is the OC.

MW bought the communal facilities - 24hr reception, crèche above, Millennium area, Tapas area, indoor pool, adults only pool.

The apartments are owned by individuals, not the OC.  Examples are Mrs McCann in 5A and Mrs Fenn above.  Some owners rented out their property, via a contract with the OC.  Some did not.

It is not private land in any way so the OC is not in a position to control access.  Example - Mrs Murat nipping out on 3 May 2007 to get bread from Baptista before it closed.  Her journey took her between blocks 5 and 6, but as the OC owned neither, it could not regulate such access.

I'm not sure if tourists booking the facilities would have been aware of that exact situation.  Being surrounded by similar blocks would give the impression that they were all Mark Warner properties to those who booked via MW.  Those who booked directly from owners might have had a better idea.

However the inability of MW to secure the entire area for the reasons you have posted is entirely reasonable. 

It would probably have precluded them monitoring 'their' bocks using CCTV since they didn't own 'their' properties. 

If they had broadly reminded or indicated a general burglary risk that might have gone some way to remind visitors ... if they had given a specific warning I don't think it would have been disregarded.

John has posted about tourists being soft targets for burglars in some areas.  I believe that quite often the optimum time for burglars to strike is at the end of a holiday when holidaymakers are preparing for the journey home and have little time to spare.
There are those employed by the holiday firm who would know exactly which properties were due to be vacated.

[pegasus]

Are people seriously suggesting that 2 very intelligent highly-qualified tourists, who you would trust to diagnose you, who had travelled abroad many times before, were not aware of the basic concept of locking windows and doors when they go out for a meal?

[ShiningInLuz]

I'm not sure if tourists booking the facilities would have been aware of that exact situation.  Being surrounded by similar blocks would give the impression that they were all Mark Warner properties to those who booked via MW.  Those who booked directly from owners might have had a better idea.

However the inability of MW to secure the entire area for the reasons you have posted is entirely reasonable. 

It would probably have precluded them monitoring 'their' bocks using CCTV since they didn't own 'their' properties. 

If they had broadly reminded or indicated a general burglary risk that might have gone some way to remind visitors ... if they had given a specific warning I don't think it would have been disregarded.

John has posted about tourists being soft targets for burglars in some areas.  I believe that quite often the optimum time for burglars to strike is at the end of a holiday when holidaymakers are preparing for the journey home and have little time to spare.
There are those employed by the holiday firm who would know exactly which properties were due to be vacated.

It is my understanding that CCTV monitoring in public areas by private organisations is illegal, though I have never checked this to make certain.  The blocks are all public.  The roads are public.  There isn't any legal way to monitor this by CCTV.

They could monitor inside the Tapas area, as that is walled off, but that would not have helped.

Estrela has CCTV because it is inside a fenced off area and access is restricted.  The OC has neither of these in place.

[Brietta]

Are people seriously suggesting that 2 very intelligent highly-qualified tourists, who you would trust to diagnose you, who had travelled abroad many times before, were not aware of the basic concept of locking windows and doors when they go out for a meal?

I take it that is a rhetorical question, Pegasus.

They did not check the windows were locked as they assumed the shutters were their security.

The front door was in effect locked since entry could not be gained without a key ... not double locked.  The patio doors were left unlocked.

They dropped their guard and they have paid dearly for it, but if entry was effected it was from the front of the apartment which they thought secure and not via the patio door.

If their window had been locked, I think any burglary attempt would have been in another apartment to which they could gain access using the MO of previous ones, which was entry through a window.

[pegasus]

(snip) They did not check the windows were locked as they assumed the shutters were their security. (snip)

Absolutely correct, verified by the statements, and a most important observation Brietta.

[Brietta]

It is my understanding that CCTV monitoring in public areas by private organisations is illegal, though I have never checked this to make certain.  The blocks are all public.  The roads are public.  There isn't any legal way to monitor this by CCTV.

They could monitor inside the Tapas area, as that is walled off, but that would not have helped.

Estrela has CCTV because it is inside a fenced off area and access is restricted.  The OC has neither of these in place.

The supermarket had CCTV situated outside which I believe encroached onto the public roadway.

The Estrella CCTV also encroached as in Mr Amaral's statement that it would have picked up street images
(a)  picking up the man seen by the Smiths.
(b)  giving an exact time of the family's return to Estrela if the man had not been picked up but giving an appx. sighting time.

In the event all the blocks had been owned by the holiday company what would have prevented them being monitored using CCTV angled solely on the company property?

[Mr Gray]

Are people seriously suggesting that 2 very intelligent highly-qualified tourists, who you would trust to diagnose you, who had travelled abroad many times before, were not aware of the basic concept of locking windows and doors when they go out for a meal?

so what is your explanation...mine is they felt it was safe...as it was in the UK 50 yrs ago

[pegasus]

(snip)If their window had been locked, I think any burglary attempt would have been in another apartment (snip)

Yes, I agree completely Brietta, if the window had been locked, we wouldn't be here discussing it.

[pegasus]

so what is your explanation...mine is they felt it was safe...as it was in the UK 50 yrs ago

UK burglary rates rocketed in the early 1960's and were very high in 1966.
Perhaps you lived in an unusually safe area Davel.