Author Topic: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.  (Read 287873 times)

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Offline Lace

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #225 on: April 29, 2016, 03:54:31 PM »


Witness statement

Celeste Da Conceicao Antao da Silva

 Date/Time: 2007/05/07 12H40
 Cleaner
 Portuguese

 Concerning the issue of the process said;
 . That she comes to the process as a witness; and as a worker of the apartments in the Ocean Club establishment in Praia da Luz, Lagos, but more precisely, in the Garden Section and in Beach 12, since 1985;
 . States that her functions are with the cleaning sector exclusively in the aforementioned apartments, so that on the 03 of May 2007, she was working in those apartments;
 . Questioned, she states that she has not direct contact with the guests of the other apartments with the exception of when she is told by her supervisor to help in other apartments, but this happens rarely;
 . Questioned, she states that she does not know the parents of Madeleine, nor the child;
 . States, that she remembers well, that during the time she has been employed that she is aware of some robberies in the interior of the apartments because the guests have left their doors open, and she has seen apartments with open doors before and has shut them herself;
 . States further that she has no knowledge of strange individuals or unknown persons who she came across in the interior or exterior of the establishment for the time she has worked there;
 . Questioned, responds that she has never been asked about the resort workings and more concretely regarding the type of guests who frequent the place;
 . States that on the 3rd of May of the present year, she arrived as normal at 10H00 at the resort, left at 13H30 for lunch, as is normal in the laundry area, and began work again at 14H30 until 18H00;
 . In this period, she does not remember having seen any individual or vehicle which caught her attention;
 . At around 18H00, she left work and went home and in the same fashion, did not see or had any knowledge of anything abnormal in the exterior of the resort;
 . She heard about the events the following day, Friday, through communication with a colleague of hers;
 . That she has nothing more to add to the statement that could be considered relevant to the discovery of facts;
 . And nothing further was said. She has read the statement, finds it in conformity and signs it;
 . The document is duly signed by me, Armenio Pontes, an Inspector with this Policia Judiciaria.
   

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #226 on: April 29, 2016, 03:58:23 PM »
UK burglary rates rocketed in the early 1960's and were very high in 1966.
Perhaps you lived in an unusually safe area Davel.

Could you answer the question
Gerry was referring to the 50s if I
remember properly

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #227 on: April 29, 2016, 04:09:30 PM »
Could you answer the question
Gerry was referring to the 50s if I
remember properly

He was. I wonder how he knew what it was like at the seaside in the 1950s ?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Eleanor

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #228 on: April 29, 2016, 04:20:26 PM »
He was. I wonder how he knew what it was like at the seaside in the 1950s ?

I know what it was like in Torquay in the 50s.  A bit like France is today.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #229 on: April 29, 2016, 04:26:27 PM »
The supermarket had CCTV situated outside which I believe encroached onto the public roadway.

The Estrella CCTV also encroached as in Mr Amaral's statement that it would have picked up street images
(a)  picking up the man seen by the Smiths.
(b)  giving an exact time of the family's return to Estrela if the man had not been picked up but giving an appx. sighting time.

In the event all the blocks had been owned by the holiday company what would have prevented them being monitored using CCTV angled solely on the company property?
With all due respect to Mr Amaral, he is talking nonsense here.  There are 9 gates into/out of Estrela, and a total of 10 CCTV cameras, all taking images inside the fence.  That includes the one nearest Primary School street.  It is way too far off to catch anything on Primary School street, and in any event, it points the other way, away from that corner.

Mr Amaral knew next to nothing about Luz.  I doubt he knew Estrela existed or had CCTV.  That CCTV only became important after the Smith statements of 26 May 2007, when it could be used to tighten up the timing.

The unnamed officer did not fail to pick up one camera.  No one was tasked to search for CCTV cameras across Luz and secure copies from near the incident time.

This is the first I've heard of CCTV outside Baptista.  I'll check at some point, but do you have any more information on this?

As I explained earlier, the OC does not own any of the apartments so has no right to monitor them.
What's up, old man?

Offline pegasus

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #230 on: April 29, 2016, 06:14:17 PM »
Could you answer the question (snip)
You asked my explanation - When the bedroom shutter is down it (deceptively) looks secure, therefore this couple saw no need to lock the window. A burglar outside opened the unlocked window and shutter and immediately saw inside an awakened child running away into another room, so he abandoned the burglary and left empty handed.

Offline Brietta

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #231 on: April 29, 2016, 06:27:57 PM »
With all due respect to Mr Amaral, he is talking nonsense here.  There are 9 gates into/out of Estrela, and a total of 10 CCTV cameras, all taking images inside the fence.  That includes the one nearest Primary School street.  It is way too far off to catch anything on Primary School street, and in any event, it points the other way, away from that corner.

Mr Amaral knew next to nothing about Luz.  I doubt he knew Estrela existed or had CCTV.  That CCTV only became important after the Smith statements of 26 May 2007, when it could be used to tighten up the timing.

The unnamed officer did not fail to pick up one camera.  No one was tasked to search for CCTV cameras across Luz and secure copies from near the incident time.

This is the first I've heard of CCTV outside Baptista.  I'll check at some point, but do you have any more information on this?

As I explained earlier, the OC does not own any of the apartments so has no right to monitor them.

Don't remember where I got the Baptista CCTV reference from, Shining;  I'll look for a cite.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #232 on: April 29, 2016, 06:33:34 PM »
With all due respect to Mr Amaral, he is talking nonsense here.

what...the great mr amaral talking nonsense

Offline Eleanor

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #233 on: April 29, 2016, 06:43:52 PM »
what...the great mr amaral talking nonsense

I wouldn't be so kind.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #234 on: April 29, 2016, 08:21:20 PM »
what...the great mr amaral talking nonsense
One needs to understand an essential point about Luz.

1 SY, the dig apart, has no idea of Luz.

2 The PJ, with the exception of the MBM case, rarely spends any time in Luz, therefore they are largely ignorant of Luz.

3 The GNR visit Luz rarely.  It is mainly about checking vehicle papers and whether a pub is playing music too loudly.  (Plus nowadays for the triathlon, and I expect to see a few for the 9th anniversary.)

So on the part of the police authorities there is largely an ignorance of Luz, the crime scene.

In Mr Amaral's book, he claims he criss-crossed Luz on the evening of 4 May, that it was basically closed, and he was informed it was the same the night before.

I haven't checked on 4 May, but a place packed with journalists on a Friday night makes 'closed' seem unlikely.

I HAVE checked on 3 May, and Luz was definitely NOT closed.

It is but one of the reasons I personally would encourage the McCanns to allow publication of TOTL in English in the UK.  It is just such a soft target.
What's up, old man?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #235 on: April 29, 2016, 08:25:20 PM »
One needs to understand an essential point about Luz.

1 SY, the dig apart, has no idea of Luz.

2 The PJ, with the exception of the MBM case, rarely spends any time in Luz, therefore they are largely ignorant of Luz.

3 The GNR visit Luz rarely.  It is mainly about checking vehicle papers and whether a pub is playing music too loudly.  (Plus nowadays for the triathlon, and I expect to see a few for the 9th anniversary.)

So on the part of the police authorities there is largely an ignorance of Luz, the crime scene.

In Mr Amaral's book, he claims he criss-crossed Luz on the evening of 4 May, that it was basically closed, and he was informed it was the same the night before.

I haven't checked on 4 May, but a place packed with journalists on a Friday night makes 'closed' seem unlikely.

I HAVE checked on 3 May, and Luz was definitely NOT closed.

It is but one of the reasons I personally would encourage the McCanns to allow publication of TOTL in English in the UK.  It is just such a soft target.


you would encourage the mccanns to allow  the publication of TT: in english...that has to be on of the most ridiculous suggestions I have ever heard....i'm absolutely sure they won't be taking any of your advice

Offline Eleanor

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #236 on: April 29, 2016, 08:48:35 PM »
One needs to understand an essential point about Luz.

1 SY, the dig apart, has no idea of Luz.

2 The PJ, with the exception of the MBM case, rarely spends any time in Luz, therefore they are largely ignorant of Luz.

3 The GNR visit Luz rarely.  It is mainly about checking vehicle papers and whether a pub is playing music too loudly.  (Plus nowadays for the triathlon, and I expect to see a few for the 9th anniversary.)

So on the part of the police authorities there is largely an ignorance of Luz, the crime scene.

In Mr Amaral's book, he claims he criss-crossed Luz on the evening of 4 May, that it was basically closed, and he was informed it was the same the night before.

I haven't checked on 4 May, but a place packed with journalists on a Friday night makes 'closed' seem unlikely.

I HAVE checked on 3 May, and Luz was definitely NOT closed.

It is but one of the reasons I personally would encourage the McCanns to allow publication of TOTL in English in the UK.  It is just such a soft target.

Sorry, but why?  It is all too easy to pick out the things that might be important, or not.

Personally, I don't care.  It isn't the love of my child that is being trashed.


Offline pegasus

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #237 on: April 29, 2016, 09:01:31 PM »
All of Mr PR's desperate spinning in UK papers is proven to be absolute rubbish.
Fact is, the PJ have not received any request from OG to re-interview the 3 men.

http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/caso-maddie-ha-uma-pista-em-aberto-mas-nenhum-pedido-para-suspeitos-serem-ouvidos-1730542

http://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/portuguese-police-did-not-receive-any.html?m=1
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 09:07:54 PM by pegasus »

Offline jassi

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #238 on: April 29, 2016, 09:05:38 PM »
All of Mr PR's desperate spinning in UK papers is proven to be absolute rubbish.
Fact is, the PJ have not received any request from OG to re-interview the 3 men.

http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/caso-maddie-ha-uma-pista-em-aberto-mas-nenhum-pedido-para-suspeitos-serem-ouvidos-1730542

Should we be surprised?
There was nothing from SY about this, it was all from unnamed sources
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 09:08:11 PM by jassi »
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #239 on: April 29, 2016, 09:13:14 PM »
All of Mr PR's desperate spinning in UK papers is proven to be absolute rubbish.
Fact is, the PJ have not received any request from OG to re-interview the 3 men.

http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/caso-maddie-ha-uma-pista-em-aberto-mas-nenhum-pedido-para-suspeitos-serem-ouvidos-1730542

http://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/portuguese-police-did-not-receive-any.html?m=1

so it seems your source to contradict a newspaper source...is another newspaper