The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.

[Alice Purjorick]

Whether the McCanns did it or someone else did it (burglars-abductors), it was done in Luz.

Is there any evidence of an MW-like reservation system in use anywhere in Tavira?

Is there any evidence of an OC-like holiday complex in Tavira?

There is no point in ruling the nature of Luz-OC out, given Luz-OC is the crime scene.

Lace asked the hypothetical question: "where better than Luz" I answered that hypothetical question.

The rest of your questions are being prescriptive for the sake of it having no bearing on the question I was posed and answered.

If an OC like establishment were essential to snatching kids then the answer is to rid the world of OC like
establishments. Jobs a goodun'.

[Mr Gray]

It's not what Brietta posted unless she has other sources.

none of us know or will ever know.....as the interviews were not recorded

[G-Unit]

Whether the McCanns did it or someone else did it (burglars-abductors), it was done in Luz.

Is there any evidence of an MW-like reservation system in use anywhere in Tavira?

Is there any evidence of an OC-like holiday complex in Tavira?

There is no point in ruling the nature of Luz-OC out, given Luz-OC is the crime scene.

I would ask instead if it was a requirement that an MW - like reservation system and an OC - like holiday complex existed. I'm sure enterprising would - be abductors could have managed in different circumstances if they were determined. It is, after all, just an assumption that the system in Luz helped.

[pathfinder73]

none of us know or will ever know.....as the interviews were not recorded

They shouldn't have signed them then.

[Heriberto Janosch]

Does anyone here remember if there is anything in PJ files about Malinka's car arson? I only have a Daily Mail article of March 21, 2008.

Many thanks.

My post on Praia da Luz yobs: http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2016/05/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-role.html

[Mr Gray]

They shouldn't have signed them then.

the signature is meaningless

[ShiningInLuz]

Lace asked the hypothetical question: "where better than Luz" I answered that hypothetical question.

The rest of your questions are being prescriptive for the sake of it having no bearing on the question I was posed and answered.

If an OC like establishment were essential to snatching kids then the answer is to rid the world of OC like
establishments. Jobs a goodun'.

Your first sentence is fine.

Your second sentence is inaccurate. I have laid out clearly two reasons why Luz fits and Tavira does not.

As to the third sentence, IMO the OC should switch from mechanical locks to an electronic system. 

The only real 'improvement' in safety to date is that the incident has already happened.  Therefore anyone attempting something similar would probably cop for both.

I doubt this incident would have occurred in Estrela da Luz or any of the other complexes in Luz that use electronic security, and can track when tourists use a key to open the door.

If the patio door was used as an entry point, one has to shoehorn everything into 5 days, including twigging that the patio door was being used.

If the front door was used, the start time for planning goes back to when the MW scheme was dropped into the OC, with the realisation it contains information that the other reservation system does not.

The date of the Payne booking is possibly when the operation moved from agreement and recruitment to a more active stage of the operation.

If the window was used, it is required to explain how a perpetrator knew the shutter could be raised from the outside.

I cannot comment on shutters elsewhere, but I was surprised when I found out it could be done.

And if one thinks the McCanns did it, one has to come up with a body disposal route, or a concealment/retrieval/disposal route.

That happens to be easier in Tavira than Luz, but I'm confident very few people, whether locals or tourists, would have known that.

[ShiningInLuz]

I would ask instead if it was a requirement that an MW - like reservation system and an OC - like holiday complex existed. I'm sure enterprising would - be abductors could have managed in different circumstances if they were determined. It is, after all, just an assumption that the system in Luz helped.

If I could prove this then OG would have the perpetrator(s) for supper.  I can't prove it, and I'm not hearing anything to convince me that OG is close to a collar.

The botched burglary theory is just that, a theory.  I can see it leading to a conviction only if OG can raise enough evidence to convince a judge that DNA must be provided, that a proper match is found in 5A, and that the person who left it had no reason to be there.

And that is tougher than it seems.  If driver José da Silva's DNA was found in 5A, he could argue it came from helping the McCanns with their luggage, with transfer from the minibus, or from assistance given to a previous occupant.  After all, it was his job to drive people from 24hr reception to their apartment.

The other 2 chappies would have a tougher time explaining their DNA.

There is no reason to believe their DNA is already on file.  And judging by the time delay between when they were made arguidos and now, it does not look like any match has occurred.

There are lots of things that are facts in this case and in the public domain.  Linking those public facts together into proof is not possible.  OG may have facts not in the public domain that fills the gaps, but by their actions, they do not have enough, or perhaps do not understand what they have got.

[Alice Purjorick]

Your first sentence is fine.

Your second sentence is inaccurate. I have laid out clearly two reasons why Luz fits and Tavira does not.

As to the third sentence, IMO the OC should switch from mechanical locks to an electronic system. 

The only real 'improvement' in safety to date is that the incident has already happened.  Therefore anyone attempting something similar would probably cop for both.

I doubt this incident would have occurred in Estrela da Luz or any of the other complexes in Luz that use electronic security, and can track when tourists use a key to open the door.

If the patio door was used as an entry point, one has to shoehorn everything into 5 days, including twigging that the patio door was being used.

If the front door was used, the start time for planning goes back to when the MW scheme was dropped into the OC, with the realisation it contains information that the other reservation system does not.

The date of the Payne booking is possibly when the operation moved from agreement and recruitment to a more active stage of the operation.

If the window was used, it is required to explain how a perpetrator knew the shutter could be raised from the outside.

I cannot comment on shutters elsewhere, but I was surprised when I found out it could be done.

And if one thinks the McCanns did it, one has to come up with a body disposal route, or a concealment/retrieval/disposal route.

That happens to be easier in Tavira than Luz, but I'm confident very few people, whether locals or tourists, would have known that.

Only if you work backwards.
Going forwards:
Objective: Kidnap a white girl aged 3 to 4 years who speaks English for the purpose of selling on at random or specifically.
Now work out a convincing case for Luz being the easiest/only place on Earth to do it going forwards not backwards.

I have difficulty removing from my mind the following passage from the archiving report:

Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow for a medium man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensate, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction), nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively - the most dramatic - to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.

Them being professionals and all having spent 15 months investigating more than one option, not finding enough evidence to establish what happened only to be upstaged by Jessica Fletcher, Jane Marple, Hercule Poirot and Lord Peter Bloody Wimsey who have it bang to rights; they must be galled.

[ShiningInLuz]

Only if you work backwards.
Going forwards:
Objective: Kidnap a white girl aged 3 to 4 years who speaks English for the purpose of selling on at random or specifically.
Now work out a convincing case for Luz being the easiest/only place on Earth to do it going forwards not backwards.

I have difficulty removing from my mind the following passage from the archiving report:

Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow for a medium man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensate, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction), nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively - the most dramatic - to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.

Them being professionals and all having spent 15 months investigating more than one option, not finding enough evidence to establish what happened only to be upstaged by Jessica Fletcher, Jane Marple, Hercule Poirot and Lord Peter Bloody Wimsey who have it bang to rights; they must be galled.

Going forwards is easy.

Why should Luz be the easiest place/only place on Earth ... etc.  Easiest/only is not a realistic test, so why explore that route?

The conditions were set fair for an abduction in Luz.  A long lead time.  A way to set it up.  A set of residences easy to get in to.  A choice of targets.

You still haven't read the relevant statements, have you?

David Payne says in his rogatory that Portugal was chosen because it was the only MW site open at the time.  That is incorrect.  The MW site in Egypt opened up about 3 weeks before the visit to Luz.

So why did this incident not happen in Egypt?  Obvious answer is the party did not pick Egypt.  But the Egypt resort is a 'standard' hotel, not a set of private residences in a public place with a contract to MW.

I can't remember if they offered a listening service in Egypt.  However, I think there was a much smaller chance of an incident in a standard hotel of medium security, than there was in Luz, with very limited security.

[stephen25000]

Going forwards is easy.

Why should Luz be the easiest place/only place on Earth ... etc.  Easiest/only is not a realistic test, so why explore that route?

The conditions were set fair for an abduction in Luz.  A long lead time.  A way to set it up.  A set of residences easy to get in to.  A choice of targets.

You still haven't read the relevant statements, have you?

David Payne says in his rogatory that Portugal was chosen because it was the only MW site open at the time.  That is incorrect.  The MW site in Egypt opened up about 3 weeks before the visit to Luz.

So why did this incident not happen in Egypt?  Obvious answer is the party did not pick Egypt.  But the Egypt resort is a 'standard' hotel, not a set of private residences in a public place with a contract to MW.

I can't remember if they offered a listening service in Egypt.  However, I think there was a much smaller chance of an incident in a standard hotel of medium security, than there was in Luz, with very limited security.

Merely because conditions could be set fair, does not mean it actually happens.

What the abduction scenario lacks, as with the others, is evidence.

[John]

I know I have posted this previously but how on earth could someone abduct a young child from a private apartment and not be seen either going to or exiting from said apartment?

[ShiningInLuz]

Merely because conditions could be set fair, does not mean it actually happens.

What the abduction scenario lacks, as with the others, is evidence.

Correct in both sentences.

IMO

[jassi]

I know I have posted this previously but how on earth could someone abduct a young child from a private apartment and not be seen either going to or exiting from said apartment?

One may well ask. Perhaps the various visits were not quite as described.

[ShiningInLuz]

I know I have posted this previously but how on earth could someone abduct a young child from a private apartment and not be seen either going to or exiting from said apartment?

Kindly visit Luz, preferably around the 10th anniversary, and I shall be happy to show you just how easy this is.  The explanation takes between 5 and 10mins tops.

Just for your entrada.  My second visitor enquired in the local ironmonger in the high street how much it cost to get a copy of a crucifix key cut.  €6.50 was the answer.  The OC must have got replacement keys cut somewhere.