Author Topic: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.  (Read 288362 times)

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Offline faithlilly

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #1605 on: June 07, 2016, 11:26:47 AM »
So basically you've just shot down your own suggestion that we should pay any notice to live TV interviews haven't you?  Which leaves us with what...?

In what way ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline G-Unit

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #1606 on: June 07, 2016, 11:47:58 AM »
Here is your post - you even emphasize that the link had been posted before.   Why would you post that link if you didn't think it was a credible cite from a reliable source?

Quote
Do keep up.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/7115564/Revealed-The-reason-Kate-and-Gerry-werent-charged-over-Madeleine-McCanns-disappearance.html

AND TAKE NOTE.

This link and others have been provided before.
End quote

Now you appear to be sneering at the very idea that the Sun is a credible source.

Therefore  - double standards IMO.

Fascinating. The story has disappeared so I can't answer your accusation but my guess is that there was a direct quote by the Portuguese authorities.

Ah yes, found it in the Daily Star! I wonder why The Sun wiped it?

It was a direct quote by Rui Pereira, the Portuguese equivalent of our Home Secretary at the time saying they made a mistake by not making the McCanns arguidos for the crime of abandonment.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/511619/Portuguese-minister-reveals-charge-Maddie-McCann-parents-compassion-abandonment-prosecutor








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Offline slartibartfast

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #1607 on: June 07, 2016, 12:06:42 PM »
I think direct quotes in newspapers can be given more credibility than surrounding copy.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Angelo222

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #1608 on: June 07, 2016, 12:30:14 PM »
Perhaps there should be a new forum rule that, as with blogs by anonymous authors, all newspaper articles should be banned, seeing as how only muppets would take anything they say as being worthy of discussion.  Which leaves us only with - what?  The Files and....?

The difference being the word anonymous.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #1609 on: June 07, 2016, 01:49:08 PM »
In what way ?
What do you mean "in what way"?  Is there any quote that has appeared in any paper of from the horse's mouth concerning the fact that the Met are not investigating parental involvement that you accept as being the straight forward honest truth? 

Offline faithlilly

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #1610 on: June 07, 2016, 03:23:32 PM »
What do you mean "in what way"?  Is there any quote that has appeared in any paper of from the horse's mouth concerning the fact that the Met are not investigating parental involvement that you accept as being the straight forward honest truth?

Why would we need a quote? We have it from the horses's mouth. Then again we also heard the same thing from Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa and we all know what happened there.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #1611 on: June 07, 2016, 03:45:19 PM »
Why would we need a quote? We have it from the horses's mouth. Then again we also heard the same thing from Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa and we all know what happened there.
You believe the McCanns are still suspects as far as the police are concerned don't you?  Despite the wealth of sources both in the news media and live TV broadcasts that state the contrary?  So, your belief is based on what a Portuguese cop didn't say 9 years ago, is that it?

Offline faithlilly

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #1612 on: June 07, 2016, 06:04:58 PM »
You believe the McCanns are still suspects as far as the police are concerned don't you?  Despite the wealth of sources both in the news media and live TV broadcasts that state the contrary?  So, your belief is based on what a Portuguese cop didn't say 9 years ago, is that it?

I'm saying  as the history of this case shows it's a possibility that's all.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #1613 on: June 07, 2016, 06:08:04 PM »
I'm saying  as the history of this case shows it's a possibility that's all.
Anything's possible, but do you think it's probable?  Is it what your gut is telling you?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 06:46:25 PM by Alfie »

Offline mercury

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #1614 on: June 08, 2016, 01:36:30 AM »
Why would we need a quote? We have it from the horses's mouth. Then again we also heard the same thing from Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa and we all know what happened there.
the horses mouth in this case was being interviewed about the 48 persons of interest at the time and when asked answered truthfully that neither the mccanns or their friends were suspects...!


Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #1615 on: June 08, 2016, 09:21:05 AM »
You believe the McCanns are still suspects as far as the police are concerned don't you?  Despite the wealth of sources both in the news media and live TV broadcasts that state the contrary?  So, your belief is based on what a Portuguese cop didn't say 9 years ago, is that it?

How about naming this "wealth of sources" ?
Has it ever occurred to you that the only mob who count are the Portuguese judiciary as they are the only ones with any power ? and they ain't telling now are  they?. So the opinion of your "wealth of sources" ain't worth diddlybleedinsquat is it?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Carana

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #1616 on: June 08, 2016, 10:12:02 AM »
I can't find a PT source for Rui Pereira's alleged comment that they should have been made arguidos for abandonment. I'm not even sure what he means... and I'm not convinced that he does either. Does he mean charged?

I can't find when he is supposed to have said said that (whether towards the beginning of the case, or whether it's a more recent comment).


In trying to check, I've just found something interesting from from an interview with him in 2013 and which may well be the source of why some people assumed that the McCanns would automatically become arguidos again when the investigation was reopened.



Rui Pereira - Despite the joy manifested by the parents of little Maddie, they should continue to be arguidos in the process, since that status remains until the end of the inquest.


Hmmm. He seems to be saying that as it's an investigation into the same case that has simply come out of hibernation, the McCanns should have the same status as they had when it was shelved.

What??

They would have become arguidos if the new lines of inquiry underlying reopening the investigation had been considered to constitute "founded suspicions" of their involvement, which wasn't the case.

I really don't get it. Their arguido status was lifted when the case got archived. It reopened due to new lines of inquiry (quite likely also involving old ones that hadn't been properly pursued), but which don't involve the McCanns.

So what exactly would be the point of automatically slapping arguido status on them again?

Is there even a precedent for this in PT?

If ever the PJ simply had outstanding questions (and assuming that it had never occurred to the Met to interview them themselves) requiring an interview that would trigger arguido status if interviewed in PT, they could arrange for them to take place in the UK with the PJ sitting in.





McCann não são suspeitos na nova investigação sobre desaparecimento da filha
RTP
24 Out, 2013, 17:27 / atualizado em 24 Out, 2013, 17:32

O Ministério Público determinou a reabertura do inquérito sobre o desaparecimento da menina inglesa. A RTP sabe que os pais de Maddie McCann não são considerados suspeitos na nova linha de investigação do caso. A decisão é uma consequência da proposta da Polícia Judiciária e da apresentação de novos indícios que justificam que a investigação prossiga.

http://www.rtp.pt/noticias/mundo/mccann-nao-sao-suspeitos-na-nova-investigacao-sobre-desaparecimento-da-filha_v690593

Original interview clip uploaded to CMTV on 25 October(presumably 2013)
http://cmtv.sapo.pt/opiniao/detalhe/rui-pereira-diz-que-pj-tem-novas-provas-no-caso-maddie.html

Former MAI Rui Pereira: 'McCanns should remain as arguidos until the end of the inquest'

Video


Transcript
News Anchor - Rui Pereira said the PJ has new evidence in the Maddie case, otherwise the process would not have been reopened. The parents aren't expected to be suspects in this new line of investigation, however the CMTV commentator stated that according to the same inquest, Gerry and Kate should remain as arguidos.

Voice Over - The reopening of the Maddie case isn't unique in Portugal, this is the practice of the Judiciary Police in processes that involve missing people, as it happened with the Rui Pedro case. There are new evidence and a renewed team on the field, without new evidence this case would never be reopened.

Cut to a debate with Carlos Anjos, President of the Committee for the Protection of Crime Victims/ former president of the Criminal Investigation Officers' Union of the PJ (ASFIC/PJ) and Rui Pereira, Former Minister of Internal Administration (MAI)/Constitutional Court judge, with a CMTV moderator.

Rui Pereira - For the process to be reopened it is mandatory that new means of evidence exist. Who is it that reopens the inquest? The Public Ministry. Obviously, the Judiciary Police has a decisive role here, it's the Judiciary Police on the field that collects the evidence and delivers it to the Public Ministry...

CMTV moderator - That then assess it.

Rui Pereira - Therefore, upon that assessment, the Public Ministry would say "Very well, here is new evidence, consequently we're going to reopen the case". That decision has to be taken by the Public Ministry.

Voice over - The McCann couple won't be identified as suspect in the new line of investigation, but Rui Pereira recalls that the ongoing inquest will be the same therefore Maddie's parents should remain as arguidos in the process.

Cut to debate that was previously broadcast by CMTV.

Rui Pereira - Despite the joy manifested by the parents of little Maddie, they should continue to be arguidos in the process, since that status remains until the end of the inquest.

Voice over - The CMTV commentator believes the inquest will now be reopened only with suspects, without the constitution of new arguidos.

Cut to debate.

Rui Pereira - There are suspects or even if they aren't identified, there are clues that could lead to suspects, but there shouldn't be, for the moment, constitution of arguidos. Now, I expect, and that is something that we all hope, that the leads are truly effective and that in the short run arguidos will be constituted.

Voice over - The reopening of the process was confirmed by the Public Ministry last Thursday after the Judiciary Police submitted new elements of evidence in the case.

CMTV, October 25, 2013

https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/10/former-mai-rui-pereira-mccanns-should.html

Offline Benice

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #1617 on: June 08, 2016, 10:45:02 AM »
You believe the McCanns are still suspects as far as the police are concerned don't you?  Despite the wealth of sources both in the news media and live TV broadcasts that state the contrary?  So, your belief is based on what a Portuguese cop didn't say 9 years ago, is that it?

 The fact that the true experts on child abduction - (i.e the parents of other abducted children - especially those who have spent time with the McCanns)  believe them and support them -  is the most compelling evidence of all IMO.

If anyone could spot a 'fake' - then it would be those people IMO.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #1618 on: June 08, 2016, 10:46:19 AM »
The fact that the true experts on child abduction - (i.e the parents of other abducted children - especially those who have spent time with the McCanns)  believe them and support them -  is the most compelling evidence of all IMO.

If anyone could spot a 'fake' - then it would be those people IMO.

Who are these true experts exactly ?

 Daniela Prousa, a Forensic Psychologist says different.

Look her up.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 10:49:15 AM by stephen25000 »

Offline Benice

Re: The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.
« Reply #1619 on: June 08, 2016, 11:45:59 AM »
Fascinating. The story has disappeared so I can't answer your accusation but my guess is that there was a direct quote by the Portuguese authorities.

Ah yes, found it in the Daily Star! I wonder why The Sun wiped it?

It was a direct quote by Rui Pereira, the Portuguese equivalent of our Home Secretary at the time saying they made a mistake by not making the McCanns arguidos for the crime of abandonment.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/511619/Portuguese-minister-reveals-charge-Maddie-McCann-parents-compassion-abandonment-prosecutor


I think you've missed the point I was making G.    To clarify:-     My comment was not about articles in the SUN  per se - it was about the SUN newspaper itself being cited on the one hand as a reliable source of credible information (when the article suited the poster),  and then on the other hand being trashed as a reliable source of credible information (when the article didn't suit the poster).

Hence my comment of 'double standards'

Personally I take any newspaper article with a large pinch of salt - and lose interest as soon as  'a source' is mentioned.


The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal