Author Topic: "We must reconstruct Maddie’s fateful night" says former Portuguese police chief.  (Read 190894 times)

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Offline Carana

What was the point in a reconstruction with a policeforce who all beleived...acording to amaral...that maddies body had been in 5a and the boot of her parents car and kates clothes reeked of cadaver...as did cuddle cat

In Portugal, it seems to have been a ploy to stitch people up (whether that is still true or not no one really knows), rather than one to be used as an appeal.

I can understand the PT type of one in certain cases, and I can even understand it in this case - IFFF Amaral had got it organised straight away with as many people as possible who were around that evening (and that includes non-T9 related tourists, locals, OC employees).

He didn't.

If the reason was due to avoiding a media frenzy, why is he still bleating about it to.... the media?

Offline ShiningInLuz

In Portugal, it seems to have been a ploy to stitch people up (whether that is still true or not no one really knows), rather than one to be used as an appeal.

I can understand the PT type of one in certain cases, and I can even understand it in this case - IFFF Amaral had got it organised straight away with as many people as possible who were around that evening (and that includes non-T9 related tourists, locals, OC employees).

He didn't.

If the reason was due to avoiding a media frenzy, why is he still bleating about it to.... the media?
Without wishing to appear unkind to Mr Amaral, when he was in charge it was going to be the media frenzy he would have to cope with.  Now he gets to opine, and it would be someone else's job to organise, and to handle the media frenzy.  Talking is cheap.

I meant to check if the 'STOP McCann circus' traffic signs had ben cleaned up yet, but I forgot.
What's up, old man?

Offline faithlilly

Without wishing to appear unkind to Mr Amaral, when he was in charge it was going to be the media frenzy he would have to cope with.  Now he gets to opine, and it would be someone else's job to organise, and to handle the media frenzy.  Talking is cheap.

I meant to check if the 'STOP McCann circus' traffic signs had ben cleaned up yet, but I forgot.

I'm sorry but do members here really gave the memories of goldfish ? It wasn't Amaral's decision not to carry out a reconstruction it was his superiors. What was he supposed to do, disobey them ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline mercury

I'm sorry but do members here really gave the memories of goldfish ? It wasn't Amaral's decision not to carry out a reconstruction it was his superiors. What was he supposed to do, disobey them ?
Further
I find it odd that some say a reconstruction would be worthless a year later, but in the same breath applaud the mccanns documentary which was made in order to possibly jog peoples memory, same with the "book" and same with the crimewatch programme
Granted one would be without media but the principle remains...maybe jogging memory


Offline misty

Further
I find it odd that some say a reconstruction would be worthless a year later, but in the same breath applaud the mccanns documentary which was made in order to possibly jog peoples memory, same with the "book" and same with the crimewatch programme
Granted one would be without media but the principle remains...maybe jogging memory

Whose memory were the PJ hoping to jog with their proposed reconstruction?

Offline mercury

Whose memory were the PJ hoping to jog with their proposed reconstruction?

Whoever was to take part

Offline faithlilly

Whose memory were the PJ hoping to jog with their proposed reconstruction?

I don't think the PJ wanted to jog memories. What the PJ wanted was a clearer picture of the events that night.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline misty

Whoever was to take part

Who was asked to take part?

Offline mercury

Who was asked to take part?

All those that refused at least
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 12:45:38 AM by mercury »

Offline misty

I don't think the PJ wanted to jog memories. What the PJ wanted was a clearer picture of the events that night.

4 people sitting at a table continuously between 9 & 10pm, another 5 making one or more round visits from the table to Block 5 I cannot see how reconstructing that would make events clearer - can you?

Offline faithlilly

4 people sitting at a table continuously between 9 & 10pm, another 5 making one or more round visits from the table to Block 5 I cannot see how reconstructing that would make events clearer - can you?

Perhaps this will help clarify things for you misty :

"the Reconstitution

Taking into account that there were certain points in the arguidos' and witnesses' statements that revealed, apparently at least, contradiction or that lacked physical confirmation, it was decided to carry out the "reconstitution of the fact", a diligence that is consecrated in article 150 of the Penal Process Code in the sense of duly clarifying, on the very location of the facts , the following very important details, among others:

1 - The physical, real and effective proximity between Jane Tanner, Gerald McCann and Jeremy Wilkins, at the moment when the first person walked by them, and which coincided with the sighting of the supposed suspect, carrying a child. It results, in our perspective, strange that neither Gerald McCann nor Jeremy Wilkins saw her, or the alleged abductor, despite the exiguity of the space and the peacefulness of the area;

2 - The situation concerning the window to the bedroom where Madeleine slept, together with the twins, which was open, according to Kate. It seemed then necessary to clarify if there was a draught, since movement of the curtains and pressure under the bedroom door are mentioned, which, eventually, could be verified through the reconstitution;

3 - The establishment of a timeline and of a line of effective checking on the minors that were left alone in the apartments, given that, if it is believed that such checking was as tight as the witnesses and the arguidos describe it, it would be, at least, very difficult to reunite conditions for the introduction of an abductor in the residence and the posterior exit of said abductor, with the child, namely through a window with scarce space. It is added that the supposed abductor could only pass, through that window, holding the minor in a different position (vertical) from the one that witness JANE TANNER saw (horizontal);

4 - What happened during the time lapse between approximately 6.45/7 p.m. - the time at which MADELEINE was seen for the last time, in her apartment, by a different person (David Payne) from her parents or siblings - and the time at which the disappearance is reported by Kate Healy - at around 10 p.m.;

5 - The obvious and well-known advantages of immediate appreciation of evidence, or in other words, the fulfilment of the principle of contiguity of evidence in order to form a conviction, as firm as possible, about what was seen by Jane Tanner and the other interposers, and, eventually, to dismiss once and for all any doubts that may subsist concerning the innocence of the missing [child's] parents."
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline misty

Perhaps this will help clarify things for you misty :

"the Reconstitution

Taking into account that there were certain points in the arguidos' and witnesses' statements that revealed, apparently at least, contradiction or that lacked physical confirmation, it was decided to carry out the "reconstitution of the fact", a diligence that is consecrated in article 150 of the Penal Process Code in the sense of duly clarifying, on the very location of the facts , the following very important details, among others:

1 - The physical, real and effective proximity between Jane Tanner, Gerald McCann and Jeremy Wilkins, at the moment when the first person walked by them, and which coincided with the sighting of the supposed suspect, carrying a child. It results, in our perspective, strange that neither Gerald McCann nor Jeremy Wilkins saw her, or the alleged abductor, despite the exiguity of the space and the peacefulness of the area;

2 - The situation concerning the window to the bedroom where Madeleine slept, together with the twins, which was open, according to Kate. It seemed then necessary to clarify if there was a draught, since movement of the curtains and pressure under the bedroom door are mentioned, which, eventually, could be verified through the reconstitution;

3 - The establishment of a timeline and of a line of effective checking on the minors that were left alone in the apartments, given that, if it is believed that such checking was as tight as the witnesses and the arguidos describe it, it would be, at least, very difficult to reunite conditions for the introduction of an abductor in the residence and the posterior exit of said abductor, with the child, namely through a window with scarce space. It is added that the supposed abductor could only pass, through that window, holding the minor in a different position (vertical) from the one that witness JANE TANNER saw (horizontal);

4 - What happened during the time lapse between approximately 6.45/7 p.m. - the time at which MADELEINE was seen for the last time, in her apartment, by a different person (David Payne) from her parents or siblings - and the time at which the disappearance is reported by Kate Healy - at around 10 p.m.;

5 - The obvious and well-known advantages of immediate appreciation of evidence, or in other words, the fulfilment of the principle of contiguity of evidence in order to form a conviction, as firm as possible, about what was seen by Jane Tanner and the other interposers, and, eventually, to dismiss once and for all any doubts that may subsist concerning the innocence of the missing [child's] parents."

The children were a very important part of events that night. Why didn't the PJ want them there?

Offline faithlilly

The children were a very important part of events that night. Why didn't the PJ want them there?

The children were all very young and most were asleep. What could they possibly have added to the reconstitution ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline mercury

The children were a very important part of events that night. Why didn't the PJ want them there?

What chldren?

That post of yours is bordering on the very silly scale, thnk i have read enough here

Offline misty

The children were all very young and most were asleep. What could they possibly have added to the reconstitution ?

It would have been important to see how long it took the respective parents to carry out the bath & bedtime routine & see how quickly & soundly the children slept. Whilst that may not be a total replica of May 2007 it is an essential part of the reconstruction - especially the interior checks carried out in 5a & the effect of noise from opening shutters.