Author Topic: "We must reconstruct Maddie’s fateful night" says former Portuguese police chief.  (Read 184515 times)

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Offline Carana

Whilst I realise we're not supposed to link to other fora, there is a chart on here which shows the hourly weather conditions in Lagos. Scroll right down to get a clear copy of the recorded wind-speeds for 3/5/07.

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4144-weather-in-praia-da-luz

Except if you click on the link to the source, it's Faro airport...
https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/LPFR/2007/5/3/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Lagos&req_state=&req_statename=Portugal&MR=1

Faro Airport (Portuguese: Aeroporto Internacional de Faro) (IATA: FAO, ICAO: LPFR), also known as Algarve Airport, is located 4 km (2.5 mi) to the west[1] of Faro in Portugal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faro_Airport
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 09:04:32 PM by Carana »

Offline Alice Purjorick

Except if you click on the link to the source, it's Faro airport...
https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/LPFR/2007/5/3/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Lagos&req_state=&req_statename=Portugal&MR=1

Faro Airport (Portuguese: Aeroporto Internacional de Faro) (IATA: FAO, ICAO: LPFR), also known as Algarve Airport, is located 4 km (2.5 mi) to the west[1] of Faro in Portugal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faro_Airport

Funny old world where no one apart from the sailors gave much of a toss about the weather.
Then came commercial and military flight.
It is no coincidence that weather stations are most commonly at airfields. Commonly quoted for abnormal weather conditions in UK are Shawbury Shrops and Benson Oxon; guess what?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline misty

Except if you click on the link to the source, it's Faro airport...
https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/LPFR/2007/5/3/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Lagos&req_state=&req_statename=Portugal&MR=1

Faro Airport (Portuguese: Aeroporto Internacional de Faro) (IATA: FAO, ICAO: LPFR), also known as Algarve Airport, is located 4 km (2.5 mi) to the west[1] of Faro in Portugal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faro_Airport

Ah, OK. Sorry about that.
Wasn't there a retired pilot living in Luz who supplied data from his own weather station? That's what I was really looking for when I found the above link.

Offline Carana

Ah, OK. Sorry about that.
Wasn't there a retired pilot living in Luz who supplied data from his own weather station? That's what I was really looking for when I found the above link.

See SIL's post:
"The ex-airman who is claimed as having a weather station in Luz was linking to the one in Faro."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7180.msg442403#msg442403

Offline sadie

AFAIK, there is no weather station in Lagos.  The only place I can think of that might have such a facility is the small airport to the east of Lagos, but I have searched for data from it without success. 

The nearest weather stations are Sagres to the west and Faro to the east.  Neither will give a nailed-on version of the weather in Luz. The ex-airman who is claimed as having a weather station in Luz was linking to the one in Faro.

Paulo Rebelo requested weather conditions for Luz, but seems not to have followed through, as these are not in the file.

Luz is basically bowl-shaped, with the half out to sea having been cut off.  We lived in various places over the years.  At the top it can be quite windy, but as one walks down the semi-bowl towards the sea, the wind drops off rapidly.  By apartment 5A level, there is seldom any wind.

There are two other problems with this tale.

Any wind is normally stronger during the day, powered by the Algarve sun.  By 10pm it has normally dropped to nothing.

Kate's recall is that the door slammed shut.  She checked the lounge patio doors, but those were closed.  To date, I have not identified where these wind gusts could have gone after entry.

If I say there was a meteorogical report about the weather in Lagos on May 3rd 2007, then there was ... and it was posted on here at least twice


Offline Carana

Funny old world where no one apart from the sailors gave much of a toss about the weather.
Then came commercial and military flight.
It is no coincidence that weather stations are most commonly at airfields. Commonly quoted for abnormal weather conditions in UK are Shawbury Shrops and Benson Oxon; guess what?

No idea, Alice. What? lol

Everyone questioned about the weather in PdL in the rogs has said that it rained on Wednesday (2 May) and that the weather brightened up somewhat on the Thursday.

I was interested in the topic because a certain "research group " stated that the weather in PdL was bad on Thursday, 3 May, and that was supposedly proof that last photo couldn't have been taken that day.

The problem with that is that they were looking at weather reports from Faro, AFAIK...

ETA: SIL looked into it as well:
https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2016/03/04/madeleine-last-photo-weather/
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 01:32:09 AM by Carana »

Offline ShiningInLuz

If I say there was a meteorogical report about the weather in Lagos on May 3rd 2007, then there was ... and it was posted on here at least twice

If you have a weather station in Lagos, please cite it.  I would be most interested, because it could change things a lot.

The two weather stations nearest to Luz are 'dodgy' for different reasons.  Sagres is close, but it is on a promentary.  I would only trust it for Luz if the wind was SW from Sagres to Luz.  Faro is just too far away.  I remember landing at Faro to find that a mini-tornado had ripped the roof off.  Luz was fine.

If you have a weather station between Sagres and Faro, kindly provide it.  That would make the weather on 3 May 2007 so much more interesting.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 03:38:40 PM by John »
What's up, old man?

Offline sadie

If you have a weather station in Lagos, please cite it.  I would be most interested, because it could change things a lot.

The two weather stations nearest to Luz are 'dodgy' for different reasons.  Sagres is close, but it is on a promentary.  I would only trust it for Luz if the wind was SW from Sagres to Luz.  Faro is just too far away.  I remember landing at Faro to find that a mini-tornado had ripped the roof off.  Luz was fine.  -snip-

-snip-
If you have a weather station between Sagres and Faro, kindly provide it.  That would make the weather on 3 May 2007 so much more interesting.

Here you go, historical weather

https://www.worldweatheronline.com/algarve-weather-history/pt.aspx  =  weather in Faro

https://www.worldweatheronline.com/lagos-weather/faro/pt.aspx = weather in Lagos

If you  scroll down, you will see that both have historical weather ... but unfortunately it only goes back about 10 years, so the weather for the three days that include the day that Madeleine vanished has disappeared

I am really upset that such valuable information (FACTS) has gone.

This forum needs a place to store REAL INFO.   Please can we have one John  TY




PS I dont think this was either of the websites that I used when I posted the pertinent  historical weather before, but I cant waste all day searching.

Offline kizzy

Here you go, historical weather

https://www.worldweatheronline.com/algarve-weather-history/pt.aspx  =  weather in Faro

https://www.worldweatheronline.com/lagos-weather/faro/pt.aspx = weather in Lagos

If you  scroll down, you will see that both have historical weather ... but unfortunately it only goes back about 10 years, so the weather for the three days that include the day that Madeleine vanished has disappeared

I am really upset that such valuable information (FACTS) has gone.

This forum needs a place to store REAL INFO.   Please can we have one John  TY




PS I dont think this was either of the websites that I used when I posted the pertinent  historical weather before, but I cant waste all day searching.

I don't think its something to get upset about sadie, i don,t think any chart is going to show there was a sudden gust of wind. around ten.

imo sills posts does leave you to make your own mind up what the conditions was like.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Here you go, historical weather

https://www.worldweatheronline.com/algarve-weather-history/pt.aspx  =  weather in Faro

https://www.worldweatheronline.com/lagos-weather/faro/pt.aspx = weather in Lagos

If you  scroll down, you will see that both have historical weather ... but unfortunately it only goes back about 10 years, so the weather for the three days that include the day that Madeleine vanished has disappeared

I am really upset that such valuable information (FACTS) has gone.

This forum needs a place to store REAL INFO.   Please can we have one John  TY


PS I dont think this was either of the websites that I used when I posted the pertinent  historical weather before, but I cant waste all day searching.
I am interested in weather stations, not weather reports.  Your reports go back to May 2014 only as far as I can find.  If I am accurate, these are years off anyway.

Let me try restating the problem

One site, plus a video maker, claim that their weather information came from an ex-RAF person who had a weather station in Luz.  Now if that was the case, we would have our hands on something worthy of discussion.

The problem with this is that the person initially having his say on this weather was clear that the source of his information was Faro, and did not hide this fact.  Other people morphed this into a weather station in Luz, operated by the ex-airman.  It is child's play to check that the claimed Luz data is identical to the Faro data, when of course it should have been different.

But if the airman had indeed recorded the weather conditions, would that be the end of the discussion?  He lives somewhere on Rua Praia da Luz (Luz beach road).  Apartment 5A is perhaps 800m away.  So we could debate whether the weather was the same or different across these two locations.

After pondering the weather question, I decided to conduct a practical experiment.  For over a year I collected weather data from our part of Luz, in order to make a comparison against Sagres and Faro.  But I have not carried out that analysis, because there was a flaw in my data collection.  I was doing it at our villa on top of a (windy) hill, whereas 5A is much more sheltered.  I would have needed to go into Luz twice every day, to record weather at the Tapas zone at the time of day that the Last Photo was taken, and to 5A around 10 pm.

I can get historical weather 'reports' for several places around us.  There are no weather stations in any of them.  Sites simply store the forecasts based on Sagres and Faro and then publish those forecasts as historical data.

Have a look at the Luz webcam.  It is getting its weather information from somewhere, just not from its private weather station.  Currently, I get mine from https://www.otempo.pt/ to check on rain and thunderstorms (when our power often goes off).  And while I would like to get my personal weather station as an amusement, a multi-day forecast is much more valuable, so this site is on my favourites list.

As far as I can tell, we have evidence from the Last Photo, plus the video clip when the McCanns were taken to Portimão in the morning of 4 May.  After that, we are into pronouncements by the Tapas9 and others.
What's up, old man?

Offline John

No personal comments please guys.  TY
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Alice Purjorick

No idea, Alice. What? lol

Everyone questioned about the weather in PdL in the rogs has said that it rained on Wednesday (2 May) and that the weather brightened up somewhat on the Thursday.

I was interested in the topic because a certain "research group " stated that the weather in PdL was bad on Thursday, 3 May, and that was supposedly proof that last photo couldn't have been taken that day.

The problem with that is that they were looking at weather reports from Faro, AFAIK...

ETA: SIL looked into it as well:
https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2016/03/04/madeleine-last-photo-weather/

They are both RAF stations as if you had not worked it out  8(0(*. Military and Civil aviation types like to know mundane things like windspeed, direction and atmospheric pressure as it fundamentally affects inconsequential things like when and where they will leave the deck and knowing how high they are flying; an altimeter being little more than a mobile Hemorrhoid Barometer.
Unless there is a weather station in PdL I would not place too much credence on data derived from stations 40 klicks from the point under consideration. The other thing is an isobar is not something you trip over or bump in to. In PdL the bloody great lump of specific heat aka the Atlantic Ocean will influence wind directions  ie generally onshore during daylight hours veering to offshore after sunset more than prevailing winds. Then of course there are buildings to chuck into the mix. I am aware there are those on this site and other sites who believe they have the experience to "nod it in" as it were. I am also familiar with the expression "In a pigs eye"... ?{)(**

p.s I'd believe the rogs in preference to some jumped figure of unknown provenance.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Carana

They are both RAF stations as if you had not worked it out  8(0(*. Military and Civil aviation types like to know mundane things like windspeed, direction and atmospheric pressure as it fundamentally affects inconsequential things like when and where they will leave the deck and knowing how high they are flying; an altimeter being little more than a mobile Hemorrhoid Barometer.
Unless there is a weather station in PdL I would not place too much credence on data derived from stations 40 klicks from the point under consideration. The other thing is an isobar is not something you trip over or bump in to. In PdL the bloody great lump of specific heat aka the Atlantic Ocean will influence wind directions  ie generally onshore during daylight hours veering to offshore after sunset more than prevailing winds. Then of course there are buildings to chuck into the mix. I am aware there are those on this site and other sites who believe they have the experience to "nod it in" as it were. I am also familiar with the expression "In a pigs eye"... ?{)(**

p.s I'd believe the rogs in preference to some jumped figure of unknown provenance.

OK.  ;)

I thought you were alluding perhaps to some scandal that I hadn't heard of. Yes, I had worked out that they were military bases,  but I was left wondering if I'd missed something...

I feel almost sure we had a weather-related thread on here, possibly sparked by that conspiracy theory, but I can't find it for the moment.


Offline Alice Purjorick

OK.  ;)

I thought you were alluding perhaps to some scandal that I hadn't heard of. Yes, I had worked out that they were military bases,  but I was left wondering if I'd missed something...

I feel almost sure we had a weather-related thread on here, possibly sparked by that conspiracy theory, but I can't find it for the moment.

Conspiracy theories like Old Mother Shipton's sayings and Nostradamus all have one thing in common.
They work real fine after the event but are not so hot before....iyswim
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Conspiracy theories like Old Mother Shipton's sayings and Nostradamus all have one thing in common.
They work real fine after the event but are not so hot before....iyswim

I just knew you were going to say that...  8(0(*

There was a lot of hot air emanating from certain quarters that night I dare say...
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin