Author Topic: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom  (Read 46545 times)

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Offline Opal

Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« on: May 09, 2016, 05:04:35 PM »
A thought came to me last night.

Why was the teddy bear in J & N B's bed? Two adult people do not usually have a teddy bear in bed with them. My conclusion to this is that the teddy bear was one of the twins, or SC's
But the twins were in bed before JB left WHF so could it have been SC's or had she bought it back from the children's bedroom? ( access to twins room from master bedroom)

This in turn made me think that maybe SC was in the bed beside June after  the twins where put to bed. This then began to make sense of SC not having any blood on her legs and feet....she was made to get out of the bed to the area she was found. No blood in bedroom from NB ! 

I started checking out times given that night and I've come to the conclusion that NB was shot downstairs NOT upstairs. My reasons are...

1) JB asks NB to collect last tractor load of rape. This is important because it makes NB's routine later than usual i.e. walking dogs/shower before bed.

2) BW rings farm at around 9.30 pm thinks she hears argument, 3) JB states he doesn't hear phone and left farm at 9.30pm. it is 9.50 pm when he rings JM. My opinion is he left WHF later than 9.30 pm, "just after 9.30 pm" according to neighbour. JB then rings JM 9.50 pm. The timing is important as JB says he has been on the phone to JM for 17 minutes. Time now... 10.07 pm. JB states he watches TV until 11.00 pm, and then goes to bed ( JB tells JM in second phone call he hasn't slept all night) 11.00 pm coincides with NB having finished collecting rape seed ( farm worker saw NB in field at 10 00 pm.) Approx time to collect rape seed given as 20 minutes, tractor then taken to yard, approx time 10 minutes...NB walks dogs as usual and has a shower...approx time ...30 minutes. total time 11.00 pm. If NB went into field at 9.45 pm... as he was still in WHF when JB left.... he would have finished collecting rape seed by 10.05 pm without taking time to put tractor in yard.( notice the similarity in time after phone call from JB to JM)  NB then spends 30 minutes walking dogs,and showering. 10.35.00 pm.  NB was used to having a cigarette, and gin and tonic before bed. Did JB leave his cottage at 11.00 pm knowing his father would be in the kitchen relaxing at this time. Did NB let JB into the house?! I find it strange that NB was found in the position of the chair he used at the table in WHF. Was there another argument that night in the kitchen?

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« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 07:49:33 PM by John »

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2016, 06:55:15 PM »
The first shooting episode most certainly happened in the master bedroom while Nevill and June were in bed. The spent shell casings associated with 4 of Nevill's injuries were found in the master bedroom. 1 bullet merely grazed Nevill and it was also found in the master bedroom.  A full magazine was fired at June and Nevill, the gun was empty and that is why things proceeded to the kitchen. With the gun empty Jeremy fled to reload with Nevill pursuing him or Nevill fled to arm himself with Jeremy in pursuit.

My wife has 5 stuffed animals in our bedroom. It would be quite easy for someone to take one and place it on the bed. It could have been June's and relocated to the bed after the murders for staging purposes or could have belonged to the boys and been relocated there for staging purposes. No one ever publicly answered who the bear belonged to. 

“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Caroline

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2016, 07:15:00 PM »
A thought came to me last night.

Why was the teddy bear in J & N B's bed? Two adult people do not usually have a teddy bear in bed with them. My conclusion to this is that the teddy bear was one of the twins, or SC's
But the twins were in bed before JB left WHF so could it have been SC's or had she bought it back from the children's bedroom? ( access to twins room from master bedroom)

This in turn made me think that maybe SC was in the bed beside June after  the twins where put to bed. This then began to make sense of SC not having any blood on her legs and feet....she was made to get out of the bed to the area she was found. No blood in bedroom from NB !
 

I started checking out times given that night and I've come to the conclusion that NB was shot downstairs NOT upstairs. My reasons are...

1) JB asks NB to collect last tractor load of rape. This is important because it makes NB's routine later than usual i.e. walking dogs/shower before bed.

2) BW rings farm at around 9.30 pm thinks she hears argument, 3) JB states he doesn't hear phone and left farm at 9.30pm. it is 9.50 pm when he rings JM. My opinion is he left WHF later than 9.30 pm, "just after 9.30 pm" according to neighbour. JB then rings JM 9.50 pm. The timing is important as JB says he has been on the phone to JM for 17 minutes. Time now... 10.07 pm. JB states he watches TV until 11.00 pm, and then goes to bed ( JB tells JM in second phone call he hasn't slept all night) 11.00 pm coincides with NB having finished collecting rape seed ( farm worker saw NB in field at 10 00 pm.) Approx time to collect rape seed given as 20 minutes, tractor then taken to yard, approx time 10 minutes...NB walks dogs as usual and has a shower...approx time ...30 minutes. total time 11.00 pm. If NB went into field at 9.45 pm... as he was still in WHF when JB left.... he would have finished collecting rape seed by 10.05 pm without taking time to put tractor in yard.( notice the similarity in time after phone call from JB to JM)  NB then spends 30 minutes walking dogs,and showering. 10.35.00 pm.  NB was used to having a cigarette, and gin and tonic before bed. Did JB leave his cottage at 11.00 pm knowing his father would be in the kitchen relaxing at this time. Did NB let JB into the house?! I find it strange that NB was found in the position of the chair he used at the table in WHF. Was there another argument that night in the kitchen?

This is what I firmly believe, I believe Sheila was sleeping in the main bedroom to be near the twins. However, I believe that Nevill slept in Sheila's room - without starting a war with Scipio (I know you don't think these are Nevill's slippers but lets see what others think), these mens slippers were near the bed in Sheila's room. This also explains why Sheila was in the main bed room when she died and could explain why Nevill's blood is not in the main bedroom but some was found outside Sheila's room - it also explains how Nevill managed to get passed the killer and run downstairs.

Offline adam

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2016, 07:34:56 PM »
Bamber opened fire in the main bedroom on June and Neville. The bullet casings showing the fully loaded rifle was emptied in one go.

Sheila was shot before or after the twins and after June and Neville had been killed.

Sheila  slept in the spare bedroom. If she weirdly wanted to sleep near her two 6 year old sons, she would have slept in their room. Not share a bed in another room with a mother she didn't like. Evicting Neville from his own bed.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2016, 07:37:05 PM »
And (without starting another war with Scipio) I firmly believe NB was shot twice on the stairs leading to the main bedroom and twice on the main stairs when NB was facing downwards.

Opal please allow me to share my diagrams with you!
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2016, 07:50:24 PM »
This is what I firmly believe, I believe Sheila was sleeping in the main bedroom to be near the twins. However, I believe that Nevill slept in Sheila's room - without starting a war with Scipio (I know you don't think these are Nevill's slippers but lets see what others think), these mens slippers were near the bed in Sheila's room. This also explains why Sheila was in the main bed room when she died and could explain why Nevill's blood is not in the main bedroom but some was found outside Sheila's room - it also explains how Nevill managed to get passed the killer and run downstairs.

Whose blood was found outside SC's bedroom?  I thought it was inconclusive?  It was a very small amount and it is possible Crispy might have put his nose/mouth in some blood and then deposited it on the landing.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Opal

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2016, 07:56:22 PM »
This is what I firmly believe, I believe Sheila was sleeping in the main bedroom to be near the twins. However, I believe that Nevill slept in Sheila's room - without starting a war with Scipio (I know you don't think these are Nevill's slippers but lets see what others think), these mens slippers were near the bed in Sheila's room. This also explains why Sheila was in the main bed room when she died and could explain why Nevill's blood is not in the main bedroom but some was found outside Sheila's room - it also explains how Nevill managed to get passed the killer and run downstairs.

Brilliant Caroline! I umm'd and arr'd about where NB was that night...in SC's bed or downstairs. No blood from NB in the main bedroom. It does make sense with the 'man's slipper' that he was in SC's bedroom. My reasoning about NB being in the kitchen was the fact a pair of trousers were there at the scene of his murder.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 08:01:39 PM by Opal »

Offline Opal

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2016, 08:03:52 PM »
And (without starting another war with Scipio) I firmly believe NB was shot twice on the stairs leading to the main bedroom and twice on the main stairs when NB was facing downwards.

Opal please allow me to share my diagrams with you!

Thanks Holly.....I had seen these photos whilst trying to see where the cartridges were. I've downloaded them now.

Offline Caroline

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2016, 08:07:54 PM »
Brilliant Caroline! I umm'd and arr'd about where NB was that night...in SC's bed or downstairs. No blood from NB in the main bedroom. It does make sense with the 'man's slipper' that he was in SC's bedroom. My reasoning about NB being in the kitchen was the fact a pair of trousers were there at the scene of his murder.

The trousers may just have been in an ironing pile or he may have used the shower which I believe was downstairs. The house wasn't the tidiest so they could have been just left laying about on a chair. But I strongly believe that Sheila was in the main bedroom and Nevill in the single bed in Sheila's room. It makes far more sense - especially given the bears are in the bed too.

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2016, 10:37:57 PM »
The trousers may just have been in an ironing pile or he may have used the shower which I believe was downstairs. The house wasn't the tidiest so they could have been just left laying about on a chair. But I strongly believe that Sheila was in the main bedroom and Nevill in the single bed in Sheila's room. It makes far more sense - especially given the bears are in the bed too.

It makes no sense whatsoever and worse ignores all evidence related to the injuries, casings etc.

It makes zero sense for a grown woman to want to sleep in the master bedroom with her mother to be a hair closer to the boys who were not even in the room next to the master bedroom.  The boys were not of such a young age that one would insist on sleeping next door but if one did want that then they would stay in Jeremy's former bedroom because that was the closest room.

If the killer had encountered June and Sheila in the bed then after firings 6 shots into June that would leave 4 left.  If Nevill came walking in the door and the killer fired at Neville the locations of the wounds would have been different, the bullet that grazed Nevill would have been in the hall and the casings would have been near the window instead of behind the door. 

In the meantime if Jeremy shot them then chased Nevill Sheila would not have stayed there in the bedroom waiting for Jeremy to return to shoot her.  She would have gone to hide her kids or get them out of the house.

Your claims make not a lick of sense and are contrary to the evidence. Your illogical claims are crafted around slippers which you insist have to be Nevill's though there are women slippers styled in the same manner and despite the fact that Nevill could have left his slippers in there long before anyway.

You are free to believe any nonsense you like. I will follow the evidence to its logical conclusion instead of speculating about slippers being Nevill's and crafting wild tales that make no sense and fail to correspond to the evidence around such speculation.

The only way the casings could get in the corner behind the door is by shooting at someone who was in bed.  This means they support Nevill being on the bed when he was shot.

The fact that 3 of the bullets were fired to Nevill's left side while Nevill was not fully upright also corresponds to Nevill being shot while seated in bed.

The killer would have to be standing on the chair to shoot Nevill's left side as he was walking in the door to achieve the trajectory of the shots and the casings would not be able to get behind the door if that had happened. The bullet that grazed Nevill in the meantime would have ended up in the hall.

You never addressed any of these problems or the the problem that Sheila would not have just sat there on Nevill's side of the bed waiting for Jeremy to return as both men went downstairs and fought in the kitchen.  If she saw her mother get shot she would have gone to her kids to either try to hide them in a safe place or to try to get them out of the house. 



“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Caroline

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2016, 10:54:17 PM »
It makes no sense whatsoever and worse ignores all evidence related to the injuries, casings etc.

It makes zero sense for a grown woman to want to sleep in the master bedroom with her mother to be a hair closer to the boys who were not even in the room next to the master bedroom.  The boys were not of such a young age that one would insist on sleeping next door but if one did want that then they would stay in Jeremy's former bedroom because that was the closest room.

If the killer had encountered June and Sheila in the bed then after firings 6 shots into June that would leave 4 left.  If Nevill came walking in the door and the killer fired at Neville the locations of the wounds would have been different, the bullet that grazed Nevill would have been in the hall and the casings would have been near the window instead of behind the door. 

In the meantime if Jeremy shot them then chased Nevill Sheila would not have stayed there in the bedroom waiting for Jeremy to return to shoot her.  She would have gone to hide her kids or get them out of the house.

Your claims make not a lick of sense and are contrary to the evidence. Your illogical claims are crafted around slippers which you insist have to be Nevill's though there are women slippers styled in the same manner and despite the fact that Nevill could have left his slippers in there long before anyway.

You are free to believe any nonsense you like. I will follow the evidence to its logical conclusion instead of speculating about slippers being Nevill's and crafting wild tales that make no sense and fail to correspond to the evidence around such speculation.

The only way the casings could get in the corner behind the door is by shooting at someone who was in bed.  This means they support Nevill being on the bed when he was shot.

The fact that 3 of the bullets were fired to Nevill's left side while Nevill was not fully upright also corresponds to Nevill being shot while seated in bed.

The killer would have to be standing on the chair to shoot Nevill's left side as he was walking in the door to achieve the trajectory of the shots and the casings would not be able to get behind the door if that had happened. The bullet that grazed Nevill in the meantime would have ended up in the hall.

You never addressed any of these problems or the the problem that Sheila would not have just sat there on Nevill's side of the bed waiting for Jeremy to return as both men went downstairs and fought in the kitchen.  If she saw her mother get shot she would have gone to her kids to either try to hide them in a safe place or to try to get them out of the house.

Yes you said, I don't agree.

Offline Opal

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2016, 11:22:30 PM »
Each entitled to our own opinion.....I don't agree with all of yours either Scipio!

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2016, 12:32:42 AM »
Each entitled to our own opinion.....I don't agree with all of yours either Scipio!

My points are facts. It is a fact the shell casings were in the master bedroom in a location where they would only be from shooting someone in bed.  The bullet that grazed Nevill was in the master bedroom. The trajectory of the shots as location of these items is impossible to achieve with Nevill being shot as he was in the doorway walking into the bedroom.

The notion Sheila would sleep in the bed with June is bad enough alone let alone given all this evidence but even worse suggesting she stayed in the bedroom on Nevill's side of the bed after June was shot and Nevill was shot and Nevill and Jeremy went to the kitchen waiting for Jeremy to return. It is not the least bit credible.

I advance the arguments of the experts because such is consistent with the evidence  if people want to ignore such they are free but don't be surprised when virtually everyone dismisses wild speculation of such kind as rubbish.
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Caroline

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2016, 12:29:54 PM »
My points are facts. It is a fact the shell casings were in the master bedroom in a location where they would only be from shooting someone in bed.  The bullet that grazed Nevill was in the master bedroom. The trajectory of the shots as location of these items is impossible to achieve with Nevill being shot as he was in the doorway walking into the bedroom.

The notion Sheila would sleep in the bed with June is bad enough alone let alone given all this evidence but even worse suggesting she stayed in the bedroom on Nevill's side of the bed after June was shot and Nevill was shot and Nevill and Jeremy went to the kitchen waiting for Jeremy to return. It is not the least bit credible.

I advance the arguments of the experts because such is consistent with the evidence  if people want to ignore such they are free but don't be surprised when virtually everyone dismisses wild speculation of such kind as rubbish.

Yes you said, we don't agree. You have also advanced that Nevill's blood was 'likely' on the bedding with nothing to back that up. There is no evidence that he was shot in the main bedroom - it's an assumption because that's where he usually slept. Why are the bears there Scipio? Why was Sheila shot in the main bedroom? Experts aren't always correct.

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2016, 05:16:32 PM »
Yes you said, we don't agree. You have also advanced that Nevill's blood was 'likely' on the bedding with nothing to back that up. There is no evidence that he was shot in the main bedroom - it's an assumption because that's where he usually slept. Why are the bears there Scipio? Why was Sheila shot in the main bedroom? Experts aren't always correct.

No I pointed out that his blood didn't need to be on the bedding but since the bedding was not examined we don't know whether it was or wasn't.  The photos of the bedding near SHeila have more than just the background pattern on them there does appear to be blood in the meantime.

That you disagree with the official line put out by the experts means little. You do not refute any of the evidence they rely upon to come up with their assessments you just ignore it.  Your claims make no sense at all except in your mind and are contradicted by evidence regardless of what you care to think.
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli