Author Topic: Have prosecution witnesses ever been found guilty of perjury?  (Read 21011 times)

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Offline John

Re: Have prosecution witnesses ever been found guilty of perjury?
« Reply #60 on: May 17, 2016, 02:08:44 PM »

It's the pictures accompanying her story which I find so distasteful. I can see -FEEL- her relief that her ordeal was over, but such behaviour was tantamount to dancing on the victims' graves and making mockery of their deaths. It may also be one of the reasons that I hung on so long to Jeremy being innocent.

I agree April, I also believe she would never have squealed on him had they not fallen out.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 07:48:46 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Have prosecution witnesses ever been found guilty of perjury?
« Reply #61 on: May 17, 2016, 02:20:18 PM »
Dunno... but you'll be saying you fancy the pants off him next!!!  %#&%%5

He looks professional and thoughtful unlike some of them! 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Have prosecution witnesses ever been found guilty of perjury?
« Reply #62 on: May 17, 2016, 02:21:27 PM »

Dunno, but it looks as if Julie may have had designs on him.

Maybe or she could be looking beyond him at the waiting press.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Have prosecution witnesses ever been found guilty of perjury?
« Reply #63 on: May 17, 2016, 02:41:20 PM »
Not sure Holly, what I can tell you however is that it isn't Ron Cook and DCI Taff Jones died before the trial.



Essex Police Press Conference. Deputy Chief Constable Ronald Stone (second from left), Ron Cook (far right).

Is that def DI Cook?  He looks so different in the CTSB prog albeit this was filmed years later.  I'm not even sure they look alike in film footage from the trial?



http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/1986/10/06/AS061086012/?s=jeremy+bamber&st=0&pn=1

Could the officer with glasses be Chief Sup George Harris page 3:

http://www.essex.police.uk/museum/thelaw/n_8306lw.pdf
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 02:53:20 PM by John »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

Re: Have prosecution witnesses ever been found guilty of perjury?
« Reply #64 on: May 17, 2016, 02:56:54 PM »


Former DI Ron Cook.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Have prosecution witnesses ever been found guilty of perjury?
« Reply #65 on: May 17, 2016, 04:27:50 PM »
This is one of the aspects of this case which bothers me.  We know Mugford and Battersby were given immunity from prosecution from the police documents available to us, they effectively turned Queen's Evidence.  They both got off Scot free after committing cheque fraud and Mugford in particular was allowed to get on with her life without a stain on her record and to benefit from a substantial sum of cash by selling her story to the Press.  I find that very distasteful in the circumstances regardless of Jeremy Bamber.

They were not given immunity. They went to the bank and told them what they did and said they wanted to pay the money back. The bank decided that since it would not be aware of the crime without the admission and it would suffer no harm if paid back that it would thus not press charges. They had no need to mention their crime to police or the bank and would have gotten away with it but for admitting their wrongdoing and paying the money back. The maximum punishment they faced if they had admitted it but not paid the money back and simply were prosecuted would have been a low community order. It was not a major crime.

The story she had was because of her relationship with Jeremy. She had a story to tell because for months Jeremy told her he wanted to kill his family and after killing them he told her he hired a hitman to do it. The press wasn't content with simply her trial testimony they wanted to interview her and do stories on her and threw money at her to try to get such. Their willingness to pay is why she was able to get paid.

She could have milked it for all it was worth, there were many chances after the first story to get paid more for follow-ups.  She chose to do a free interview to clear up the distortions from the NOTW article and then to fade away rather than make efforts to remain in the limelight and prosper from having been Jeremy's former girlfriend.

The only issue I have with her is that she didn't tell police right away about Jeremy saying he wanted to kill his family and tonight is the night etc.  Obviously saying such to them would end her relationship with Jeremy and he would not have told her anything after about how it went down but he didn't tell her much anyway about how it went down and lied about how it went down. Had she come forward immediately police might have done a better job. I say might have because Taff Jones could potentially have ignored her. We have no way to know for sure what his reaction would have been.  We don't know what his reaction was in September when she came forward. He was no longer in charge at that point so we have no idea what he would have done if she came forward under his watch.  Coming clean a month later was far superior to doing it too late to matter or not doing it at all.
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Have prosecution witnesses ever been found guilty of perjury?
« Reply #66 on: May 17, 2016, 05:06:45 PM »
Gif removed as could be considered goading.

Do I believe the police shot Shelia? No! Do I believe Shelia was found on the bed? No! Do I Believe Jeremy has a daughter? No!

Julies testimony contradicts the facts of the crime, its the same false information police gave AE and Robert Boutflour. You know this and you still try to peddle Julie as a credible witness, I simply cannot take you seriously while you attempt to do this.

One day you will realise the opposite is the case.

Big deal you reject some of Mike's most outrageous claims but you still advance many other claims of his including some absurd ones like suggesting multiple moderators were doctored and multiple rifles used.  You spent weeks insisting that Jeapes supported the murder weapon being in the masterbedroom window like Mike insisted even though compelling evidence proved she was looking at the kitchen side of the house and could not have seen in the bedroom window and her own account described the boxroom window.  Rejecting some of the most absurd ones doesn't save you from making many of the same arguments Mike does nor does such make your allegations reasonable/supported by evidence.

Contrary to your claim not a single material claim made by Julie has been proven false. Julie's testimony consisted of 2 categories.  1) what Jeremy told her before the murders and 2) what Jeremy told her after the murders. She didn't say that Jeremy hired a hitman she said that Jeremy told her he hired a hitman. In order to prove she lied you need to prove that Jeremy didin't tell her such.  You have provided zilch to discredit Julie's accounts of Jeremy telling her he wanted to kill his family and what he was planning to do. You have produced nothing to discredit her claim that he said tonight is the night to her during the phone call before the murders. Her testimony about his plotting was the most important testimony she gave. he claims he made after the murders were not nearly as significant because he didn't tell her much and largely lied.

You totally ignore the most significant testimony about how he was planning the murders and said tonight is the night.  You ignore that Jeremy called her before he even called police which supports her.  It supports her in 2 distinct ways.  1) if Jeremy genuinely received the distress call he claimed then he would have immediately rushed over or immediately have dialed 999 not have called Julie. 2) that he did call Julie first supported that he was confiding in her. Both of these support Julie.

Now let's look at the lie that you erroneously claim proves Julie a liar.  Julie said that after the murders Jeremy told her he didn't carry out the murders personally as he had been planning but rather hired MM to kill them. Police investigated and determined it was a lie that Jeremy had hired MM to kill them.  The police said that Jeremy lied to Julie.  Julie also says that Jeremy must have lied to her when he said MM did it.  You say that Julie had to be lying about Jeremy telling her such and made it up herself.

You have zero evidence that she is the one who made up the lie as opposed to Jeremy making it up and telling it to her as she claimed.  Your position is simply that since it is a lie that MM was involved that she must have made up the lie herself. You totally ignore the possibility of Jeremy making up the lie and just declare she made it up.

A rational inquiry though would be to look at who would have a reason to make up the lie and why one would make it up.

You say Julie lied to get Jeremy in trouble.  If she wanted to lie to get Jeremy in trouble she would say he admitted he carried out the murders himself.  She knew he had no alibi so had no need to make up that he had hired a hitman.  If she were going to make up the lie he hired a hitman she would have said he failed to name a hitman.  Making up that he took money out of the bank to give to a hitman would be bad enough since bank records would prove it never happened but it would be even more foolish to name someone who would be able to prove they had an alibi and thus prove you a liar.  So there is no advantage of any kind in her making up the story. On the other hand there are several advantages to Jeremy to make up such a lie.

1) Jeremy didn't want her to know how cold blooded he truly was so said he hired someone he didn't personally do it
2) Jeremy told her that she had better keep quiet because the hitman would get her if she talked. He used the lie to try to keep her quiet.
3) If the fear of the hitman failed to silence her and she did come forward with the story it would not hurt him because it was a lie.  He could prove he didn't take out 2500 pounds from his account to give to anyone, MM would deny it and would be able to alibi himself and Jeremy would allege Julie was just lying to get back at him for breaking up with her and hopefully police would believe nothing else she said about the planning prior to the murders.

Quite clearly the only one with a reason to make up the story about MM was Jeremy. You have not come forward with any reason why Julie would make up such.  she simply would have said Jeremy told her he committed the murders himself not made up a hitman story that would easily be proven false. 

You are doing exactly what Jeremy wanted.  He hoped that people would believe she made up the lie about MM and that nothing else she said was credible either even though he is the one who clearly made it up.  That you fall for Jeremy's nonsense hook line and sinker is one reason why I doubt your supposed scientific breakthrough is anything more than your biased imagination at work. 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 05:10:56 PM by scipio_usmc »
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Have prosecution witnesses ever been found guilty of perjury?
« Reply #67 on: May 17, 2016, 07:01:13 PM »
Yes four 13 year old girls, all friends, testified against Stefan Kiszko.  Years later they all admitted they lied for "a laugh".   At trial the judge praised them.  Post verdict one girls mother called for SK to be hanged.

When the CoA quashed SK's conviction the girls went unpunished.  Only one apologised.

The girls in question didn't testify they saw Kiszko commit the crime for which he was being charged. They didn't testify that he admitted to them that he had committed the crime or other crimes.  They were not the main reason he was convicted they didn't present any evidence that established guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.  They didn't expect their testimony would in any way lead to his conviction.

What they told police was that he flashed them and urinated in public around them and was following them. Three of them testified at trial the 4th did not and said that if she had been forced to testify she would have told the truth.  She said the truth is that someone else had flashed them and someone else had urinated in front of them in public. The part about him following them they made up for fun.  So they took things that did happen and changed the actor to him and made up he followed them around.  Kiszko's confession is what did him in the most not them.

Making up that he followed them around is a far cry from making up detailed accounts of him telling them he was planning to kill someone and someone died saying he had hired someone to do it. It is apples and oranges.

 

 
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Have prosecution witnesses ever been found guilty of perjury?
« Reply #68 on: May 17, 2016, 07:40:05 PM »
Big deal you reject some of Mike's most outrageous claims but you still advance many other claims of his including some absurd ones like suggesting multiple moderators were doctored and multiple rifles used.  You spent weeks insisting that Jeapes supported the murder weapon being in the masterbedroom window like Mike insisted even though compelling evidence proved she was looking at the kitchen side of the house and could not have seen in the bedroom window and her own account described the boxroom window.  Rejecting some of the most absurd ones doesn't save you from making many of the same arguments Mike does nor does such make your allegations reasonable/supported by evidence.

Contrary to your claim not a single material claim made by Julie has been proven false. Julie's testimony consisted of 2 categories.  1) what Jeremy told her before the murders and 2) what Jeremy told her after the murders. She didn't say that Jeremy hired a hitman she said that Jeremy told her he hired a hitman. In order to prove she lied you need to prove that Jeremy didin't tell her such.  You have provided zilch to discredit Julie's accounts of Jeremy telling her he wanted to kill his family and what he was planning to do. You have produced nothing to discredit her claim that he said tonight is the night to her during the phone call before the murders. Her testimony about his plotting was the most important testimony she gave. he claims he made after the murders were not nearly as significant because he didn't tell her much and largely lied.

You totally ignore the most significant testimony about how he was planning the murders and said tonight is the night.  You ignore that Jeremy called her before he even called police which supports her.  It supports her in 2 distinct ways.  1) if Jeremy genuinely received the distress call he claimed then he would have immediately rushed over or immediately have dialed 999 not have called Julie. 2) that he did call Julie first supported that he was confiding in her. Both of these support Julie.

Now let's look at the lie that you erroneously claim proves Julie a liar.  Julie said that after the murders Jeremy told her he didn't carry out the murders personally as he had been planning but rather hired MM to kill them. Police investigated and determined it was a lie that Jeremy had hired MM to kill them.  The police said that Jeremy lied to Julie.  Julie also says that Jeremy must have lied to her when he said MM did it.  You say that Julie had to be lying about Jeremy telling her such and made it up herself.

You have zero evidence that she is the one who made up the lie as opposed to Jeremy making it up and telling it to her as she claimed.  Your position is simply that since it is a lie that MM was involved that she must have made up the lie herself. You totally ignore the possibility of Jeremy making up the lie and just declare she made it up.

A rational inquiry though would be to look at who would have a reason to make up the lie and why one would make it up.

You say Julie lied to get Jeremy in trouble.  If she wanted to lie to get Jeremy in trouble she would say he admitted he carried out the murders himself.  She knew he had no alibi so had no need to make up that he had hired a hitman.  If she were going to make up the lie he hired a hitman she would have said he failed to name a hitman.  Making up that he took money out of the bank to give to a hitman would be bad enough since bank records would prove it never happened but it would be even more foolish to name someone who would be able to prove they had an alibi and thus prove you a liar.  So there is no advantage of any kind in her making up the story. On the other hand there are several advantages to Jeremy to make up such a lie.

1) Jeremy didn't want her to know how cold blooded he truly was so said he hired someone he didn't personally do it
2) Jeremy told her that she had better keep quiet because the hitman would get her if she talked. He used the lie to try to keep her quiet.
3) If the fear of the hitman failed to silence her and she did come forward with the story it would not hurt him because it was a lie.  He could prove he didn't take out 2500 pounds from his account to give to anyone, MM would deny it and would be able to alibi himself and Jeremy would allege Julie was just lying to get back at him for breaking up with her and hopefully police would believe nothing else she said about the planning prior to the murders.

Quite clearly the only one with a reason to make up the story about MM was Jeremy. You have not come forward with any reason why Julie would make up such.  she simply would have said Jeremy told her he committed the murders himself not made up a hitman story that would easily be proven false. 

You are doing exactly what Jeremy wanted.  He hoped that people would believe she made up the lie about MM and that nothing else she said was credible either even though he is the one who clearly made it up.  That you fall for Jeremy's nonsense hook line and sinker is one reason why I doubt your supposed scientific breakthrough is anything more than your biased imagination at work.

I have explained the situation before its in the link below, I am not going round in circles   

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7127.0

Your long-winded lengthy posts as usual prove nothing and consist of a concoction of half-truths mixed in with your own opinions and assumptions to fill the gaps.

you say my breakthrough is my biased imagination at work, Well iv had two Barristers tell me otherwise. 

Offline adam

Re: Have prosecution witnesses ever been found guilty of perjury?
« Reply #69 on: May 17, 2016, 07:41:16 PM »
Big deal you reject some of Mike's most outrageous claims but you still advance many other claims of his including some absurd ones like suggesting multiple moderators were doctored and multiple rifles used.  You spent weeks insisting that Jeapes supported the murder weapon being in the masterbedroom window like Mike insisted even though compelling evidence proved she was looking at the kitchen side of the house and could not have seen in the bedroom window and her own account described the boxroom window.  Rejecting some of the most absurd ones doesn't save you from making many of the same arguments Mike does nor does such make your allegations reasonable/supported by evidence.

Contrary to your claim not a single material claim made by Julie has been proven false. Julie's testimony consisted of 2 categories.  1) what Jeremy told her before the murders and 2) what Jeremy told her after the murders. She didn't say that Jeremy hired a hitman she said that Jeremy told her he hired a hitman. In order to prove she lied you need to prove that Jeremy didin't tell her such.  You have provided zilch to discredit Julie's accounts of Jeremy telling her he wanted to kill his family and what he was planning to do. You have produced nothing to discredit her claim that he said tonight is the night to her during the phone call before the murders. Her testimony about his plotting was the most important testimony she gave. he claims he made after the murders were not nearly as significant because he didn't tell her much and largely lied.

You totally ignore the most significant testimony about how he was planning the murders and said tonight is the night.  You ignore that Jeremy called her before he even called police which supports her.  It supports her in 2 distinct ways.  1) if Jeremy genuinely received the distress call he claimed then he would have immediately rushed over or immediately have dialed 999 not have called Julie. 2) that he did call Julie first supported that he was confiding in her. Both of these support Julie.

Now let's look at the lie that you erroneously claim proves Julie a liar.  Julie said that after the murders Jeremy told her he didn't carry out the murders personally as he had been planning but rather hired MM to kill them. Police investigated and determined it was a lie that Jeremy had hired MM to kill them.  The police said that Jeremy lied to Julie.  Julie also says that Jeremy must have lied to her when he said MM did it.  You say that Julie had to be lying about Jeremy telling her such and made it up herself.

You have zero evidence that she is the one who made up the lie as opposed to Jeremy making it up and telling it to her as she claimed.  Your position is simply that since it is a lie that MM was involved that she must have made up the lie herself. You totally ignore the possibility of Jeremy making up the lie and just declare she made it up.

A rational inquiry though would be to look at who would have a reason to make up the lie and why one would make it up.

You say Julie lied to get Jeremy in trouble.  If she wanted to lie to get Jeremy in trouble she would say he admitted he carried out the murders himself.  She knew he had no alibi so had no need to make up that he had hired a hitman.  If she were going to make up the lie he hired a hitman she would have said he failed to name a hitman.  Making up that he took money out of the bank to give to a hitman would be bad enough since bank records would prove it never happened but it would be even more foolish to name someone who would be able to prove they had an alibi and thus prove you a liar.  So there is no advantage of any kind in her making up the story. On the other hand there are several advantages to Jeremy to make up such a lie.

1) Jeremy didn't want her to know how cold blooded he truly was so said he hired someone he didn't personally do it
2) Jeremy told her that she had better keep quiet because the hitman would get her if she talked. He used the lie to try to keep her quiet.
3) If the fear of the hitman failed to silence her and she did come forward with the story it would not hurt him because it was a lie.  He could prove he didn't take out 2500 pounds from his account to give to anyone, MM would deny it and would be able to alibi himself and Jeremy would allege Julie was just lying to get back at him for breaking up with her and hopefully police would believe nothing else she said about the planning prior to the murders.

Quite clearly the only one with a reason to make up the story about MM was Jeremy. You have not come forward with any reason why Julie would make up such.  she simply would have said Jeremy told her he committed the murders himself not made up a hitman story that would easily be proven false. 

You are doing exactly what Jeremy wanted.  He hoped that people would believe she made up the lie about MM and that nothing else she said was credible either even though he is the one who clearly made it up.  That you fall for Jeremy's nonsense hook line and sinker is one reason why I doubt your supposed scientific breakthrough is anything more than your biased imagination at work.

There have already been threads on -

Why Bamber would tell Julie he hired MM.

Disadvantages in Julie and the police introducing MM as a fake hit man.


But supporters still bring it up.

The police could have persuaded Julie to amend her WS slightly. To not include MM. They would know early on that MM had an alibi. They didn't because they wanted her true WS released, with and without flaws.

Offline John

Re: Have prosecution witnesses ever been found guilty of perjury?
« Reply #70 on: May 17, 2016, 07:48:20 PM »
The police could have persuaded Julie to amend her WS slightly. To not include MM. They would know early on that MM had an alibi. They didn't because they wanted her true WS released, with and without flaws.

Good point Adam. A statement is supposed to reflect the witness's own experience regardless of what appears to be rubbish.  It is testimony in Court which counts at the end of the day and not any statement.  Statements are provided so that both prosecution and defence are reading from the same Hymn sheet.  If a statement is required to be presented in Court it is upgraded to a sworn statement ie an affidavit.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 02:50:46 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline adam

Re: Have prosecution witnesses ever been found guilty of perjury?
« Reply #71 on: May 17, 2016, 07:58:59 PM »
Good point Adam. A statement is supposed to reflect the witness's own experience regardless of what appears to be rubbish.  It is testimony in Court which counts at the end of the day and not any statement.  Statements are provided so that both prosecution and defence are reading from the same Hymn sheet.  If a statement is required to be presented in Court it is upgraded to a sworn statement ie an affidavit.

Bamber bringing up MM as a proxy makes sense.

Julie bringing up MM because that is what Bamber said, and then honest police including it in her WS makes sense.

A lot more sense than the police dreaming it up,  and asking her to lie about something which was not true in the first place.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 08:16:43 PM by adam »

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Have prosecution witnesses ever been found guilty of perjury?
« Reply #72 on: May 17, 2016, 08:57:59 PM »
The girls in question didn't testify they saw Kiszko commit the crime for which he was being charged. They didn't testify that he admitted to them that he had committed the crime or other crimes.  They were not the main reason he was convicted they didn't present any evidence that established guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.  They didn't expect their testimony would in any way lead to his conviction.

What they told police was that he flashed them and urinated in public around them and was following them. Three of them testified at trial the 4th did not and said that if she had been forced to testify she would have told the truth.  She said the truth is that someone else had flashed them and someone else had urinated in front of them in public. The part about him following them they made up for fun.  So they took things that did happen and changed the actor to him and made up he followed them around.  Kiszko's confession is what did him in the most not them.

Making up that he followed them around is a far cry from making up detailed accounts of him telling them he was planning to kill someone and someone died saying he had hired someone to do it. It is apples and oranges.

The young girls' exposure claims formed a significant part of the case against SK and were highly relevant.  The perp (Ronald Castree) posed the victim's body, a young girl, and ejaculated on her underwear.

The trial judge, Sir Hugh Park, said:

"The judge praised the three girls who had made the exposure claims, Buckley in particular, for their "bravery and honesty" in giving evidence in court and their "sharp observations". Pamela Hind's evidence was read out in court. Park said that Buckley's "sharp eyes set this train of inquiry into motion"

My main reason for highlighting this case is to show that highly trained and experienced QC's can easily be hoodwinked by young women. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Have prosecution witnesses ever been found guilty of perjury?
« Reply #73 on: May 17, 2016, 09:13:29 PM »
Bamber bringing up MM as a proxy makes sense.

Julie bringing up MM because that is what Bamber said, and then honest police including it in her WS makes sense.

A lot more sense than the police dreaming it up,  and asking her to lie about something which was not true in the first place.

Bamber committing the perfect murder then implicating himself after convincingly framing Shelia makes no sense.

Robert Boultflour in his diary speculates if Jeremy had an accomplice and considers if Brett Collins was involved. It turns out Brett was out the country at the time but the idea of an accomplice was on his mind. What is interesting about Mathew Macdonald is he was some sort of a fantasist that built a false persona telling people he was some kind of muscle for hire / Hitman who had done missions in Africa. Rumors spread locally long before the murders, And Mathew kept the rumors going because he enjoyed the attention. Its very possible that Robert Boutflour and the police got in the loop about the rumors and since he was friends with Jeremy they joined the dots (in their minds)

Offline adam

Re: Have prosecution witnesses ever been found guilty of perjury?
« Reply #74 on: May 17, 2016, 09:53:53 PM »
Bamber committing the perfect murder then implicating himself after convincingly framing Shelia makes no sense.

Robert Boultflour in his diary speculates if Jeremy had an accomplice and considers if Brett Collins was involved. It turns out Brett was out the country at the time but the idea of an accomplice was on his mind. What is interesting about Mathew Macdonald is he was some sort of a fantasist that built a false persona telling people he was some kind of muscle for hire / Hitman who had done missions in Africa. Rumors spread locally long before the murders, And Mathew kept the rumors going because he enjoyed the attention. Its very possible that Robert Boutflour and the police got in the loop about the rumors and since he was friends with Jeremy they joined the dots (in their minds)

It makes sense that Bamber would decide on MM as his proxy. For the reasons you mentioned.

Julie would know Bamber wouldn't know where to find a hit man. Or afford one. The only person they both knew who Julie may believe Bamber hired, was MM.