Inconsistencies in the witness statements of JM and SB

[Holly Goodhead]

SB starts off her 10th Sep WS by describing the property she shared with JM as a "house".  Throughout this WS she refers to the shared property as a "house".

"The premises are a semi-detached three bedroom house".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=529.0;attach=1649

She states she moved in during Sep '84 with three others:  JM, Jim Richards and Charles Thackway.  Why then in her WS dated 23rd Sep does she keep referring to the same property/house as a flat? 

"About 10pm on the 6th Aug 1985 the phone rang in the flat..."

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=530.0;attach=1669

"I spoke to Julie in relation to the time of the telephone call to our flat..."

"I was aware that Julie wanted to know the time of this phone call as she had phoned the flat..."

Lol SB even concludes by "I then ran upstairs and cried..."   

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=530.0;attach=1671

Also why are the words phone and phoned preceded by a single apostrophe?  Was this to identify what might need changing and editing later?

As far as I am concerned it's a racing cert EP coerced prosecution witnesses into testifying against JB using the threat of criminal charges for drug related offences.   

[Holly Goodhead]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.463807,-0.0061412,3a,75y,169.37h,80.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-DqBbzE6MtoPCq-S2xRtwQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

42 Caterham Road, Lewisham, London postcode SE13 5AR above with bright red door and black wheelie bin marked "42" on pavement outside.

[Myster]

A few of the houses in Caterham Road have been converted into "flats". Look at the next property to 42 where there are two doors to one semi, one presumably opening onto a staircase giving access to the first floor rooms.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Myster]

... as for the apostrophe before phone... it's just shorthand for telephone. Nothing sinister at all!!!

[Holly Goodhead]

A few of the houses in Caterham Road have been converted into "flats". Look at the next property to 42 where there are two doors to one semi, one presumably opening onto a staircase giving access to the first floor rooms.

Yes they have but the point is SB and JM interchange "house" and "flat" throughout their WS's.  SB makes it clear the shared property was a house.  If you look at the postcode finder you will see some numbers have an a A and B, I assume denoting the properties that  have been separated into two?  Unfortunately 42 isn't one of them. 

12A
15A
22A
22B
40A
44A
44B

http://www.royalmail.com/find-a-postcode

Other more reliable records will confirm the status of the property, physical changes made, title deeds etc.  I can't see why anyone would refer to living in a 3 bed semi-detached house as a flat?

The property JM moved into during early Sept was a flat.  Liz Rimmington also lived in a flat.  EP obviously got their wires crossed!

[Caroline]

Yes they have but the point is SB and JM interchange "house" and "flat" throughout their WS's.  SB makes it clear the shared property was a house.  If you look at the postcode finder you will see some numbers have an a A and B, I assume denoting the properties that  have been separated into two?  Unfortunately 42 isn't one of them. 

12A
15A
22A
22B
40A
44A
44B

http://www.royalmail.com/find-a-postcode

Other more reliable records will confirm the status of the property, physical changes made, title deeds etc.  I can't see why anyone would refer to living in a 3 bed semi-detached house as a flat?

The property JM moved into during early Sept was a flat.  Liz Rimmington also lived in a flat.  EP obviously got their wires crossed!

I fail to see what difference this makes?

[Myster]

Yes they have but the point is SB and JM interchange "house" and "flat" throughout their WS's.  SB makes it clear the shared property was a house.  If you look at the postcode finder you will see some numbers have an a A and B, I assume denoting the properties that  have been separated into two?  Unfortunately 42 isn't one of them. 

12A
15A
22A
22B
40A
44A
44B

http://www.royalmail.com/find-a-postcode

Other more reliable records will confirm the status of the property, physical changes made, title deeds etc.  I can't see why anyone would refer to living in a 3 bed semi-detached house as a flat?

The property JM moved into during early Sept was a flat.  Liz Rimmington also lived in a flat.  EP obviously got their wires crossed!

Nothing to stop each bedroom having its own door lock and being called a flat, with say the downstairs front room being used as a communal lounge. You're making a mountain out of a molehill! 

Nos 44A and B have gone further by separating the accommodation to a greater extent... that's all.

[Holly Goodhead]

In JM's WS of 8th/9th Sep she states after she told SB they never discussed again:

"From that day to the present I haven't spoken to Susan about what Jeremy told me regarding the killings".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=284.0;attach=1128

This contradicts with SB's WS's of 10th Sep:

"After she first told me about the shootings both Julie and I spoke about it on a number of occasions"

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=529.0;attach=1665

Come on girls get your stories right.  You're not talking about some girly gossip here.  You're talking 5 murders.  Either it was discussed on one occasion or a number of occasions.

[Holly Goodhead]

It was JM's 21st birthday on 26th Aug '85.  Her mother arranged a family dinner at a restaurant near Colchester.  JB and BC attended.

JM's WS's provide brief details of most days in chronological order.  However in her 8th/9th Sept WS she states "On the Bank Holiday Monday, 26th August nothing of interest happened":

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=284.0;attach=1126

Then in her WS of 23rd Sept she states "I have been asked about my movements on 26th August 1985, I can say that I did not go to the Whitehouse on that day. I believe that during the early part of the morning Jeremy went to the Whitehouse alone, returning around lunchtime.  He made no comment about who he saw or what he done there.  As far as I am aware he did not go back to the Whitehouse that day as we left between 2pm and 2.30pm and went to London.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=286.0;attach=1150

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=286.0;attach=1152

JM's WS states JB and BC took JM to Chelmsford train station on 27th August to return to London.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=529.0;attach=1169

[Holly Goodhead]

Why were EP keen to cover off JB's movements on 26th Aug?

[scipio_usmc]

Yes they have but the point is SB and JM interchange "house" and "flat" throughout their WS's.  SB makes it clear the shared property was a house.  If you look at the postcode finder you will see some numbers have an a A and B, I assume denoting the properties that  have been separated into two?  Unfortunately 42 isn't one of them. 

12A
15A
22A
22B
40A
44A
44B

http://www.royalmail.com/find-a-postcode

Other more reliable records will confirm the status of the property, physical changes made, title deeds etc.  I can't see why anyone would refer to living in a 3 bed semi-detached house as a flat?

The property JM moved into during early Sept was a flat.  Liz Rimmington also lived in a flat.  EP obviously got their wires crossed!

Brits I have interacted with have called where they live here in the states flats.  In a colloquial sense some call where they live period a flat. You are trying to take claims in a very literal sense.  All day long though people use terms in an imprecise manner and even wrong in a technical sense.  When there are questions like this you must get the person to clarify what they mean.  his is but one reason why courts want live witness who can be questioned. If you want to get technical macaroni means elbow pasta. Yet to a large swatch of American-Italians macaroni is used to mean pasta generally.  As Caroline said it is not really relevant whether what the place technically was so it not worth worrying about.


   

[scipio_usmc]

Why were EP keen to cover off JB's movements on 26th Aug?

She recounted what she knew of what he did from the murders forward. They were not interested in that date in particular over others.  They wanted to know who he interacted with and what he did so they could question any people he might have been involved with. They were not sure whether he did it alone or not or whether he told anyone else anything.  They especially liked hearing about how much oney he was spending and where he got the money from.

[Holly Goodhead]

Brits I have interacted with have called where they live here in the states flats.  In a colloquial sense some call where they live period a flat. You are trying to take claims in a very literal sense.  All day long though people use terms in an imprecise manner and even wrong in a technical sense.  When there are questions like this you must get the person to clarify what they mean.  his is but one reason why courts want live witness who can be questioned. If you want to get technical macaroni means elbow pasta. Yet to a large swatch of American-Italians macaroni is used to mean pasta generally.  As Caroline said it is not really relevant whether what the place technically was so it not worth worrying about.

SB's WS of 10th Sept clearly states the property was a semi-detached house.  Why would she then refer to it as a flat? 

[Holly Goodhead]

She recounted what she knew of what he did from the murders forward. They were not interested in that date in particular over others.  They wanted to know who he interacted with and what he did so they could question any people he might have been involved with. They were not sure whether he did it alone or not or whether he told anyone else anything.  They especially liked hearing about how much oney he was spending and where he got the money from.

Why did JM forget to say it was her 21st birthday on 26th Aug and the birthday dinner her mother arranged in Colchester?  In the UK dinner is usually referred to as an evening meal.  Lunch at midday.  JM said she and JB left for London at 2.00 - 2.30pm.  She said JB took her to the train station on 27th Aug to return to London?

No mention of who paid for the 21st birthday dinner or JB's pressie to JM save the cheque for £400 at a later date for a hol. 

[Myster]

SB's WS of 10th Sept clearly states the property was a semi-detached house.  Why would she then refer to it as a flat?

You don't half go on!!!  We used to call them bedsits at uni.  No.42 was simply a house where the bedrooms were made into individual units to be rented out separately.