Author Topic: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?  (Read 95758 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #315 on: November 13, 2017, 10:32:35 AM »
NB is described by most, if not all, as an easy-going character.

From RB re his car rallying with NB:

Robert recalled 'He was not the sort of person to lose his temper easily...I would point him up the wrong track and get temporarily lost but he never had a go at me.  Even in the evenings when all the other drivers were loudly having a "pop" at their navigators over a pint of beer, Nevill never did likewise with me'.

From BW:

'Mr Bamber was a proper gentleman, always so even-tempered'. 

Some people are inherently even-tempered rarely getting ruffled.  Perhaps this was NB and/or his WW11 experiences of coming close to death gave him a different perspective on life. 

RB and BW seem to imply NB had justifiable reason to lose his temper at times but didn't.  Was this down to NB's temperament and/or life experiences or was he self-medicating on opium/morphine and permanently chilled out?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #316 on: November 13, 2017, 10:59:48 AM »
If NB was growing opium poppies to self-medicate this may have been the reason he was reluctant to involve the authorities and called JB, if he did call JB. 

I'm sure we've all done something naughty at times and feel guilty/fear getting found out and become quite irrational about it!  I'm thinking when I go snooping and then feel guilty and fear I've left incriminating evidence behind and keep going back to check and then fear I've left some evidence from checking and so the cycle goes on!  What I am saying is assuming the poppies were only taking up a small amount of land the chances of the police identifying were slim.  Even if they did identify them there was nothing to prevent NB growing them for ornamental reasons but when you know you're doing something naughty/illegal it can all become irrational in your mind.   

The fact JB picked a bunch of opium poppies upon being told all his family were dead and then advised Dr Craig the farm had a licence to produce them for the pharma industry is to my mind significant. 

Research shows UK farms were not authorised to grow opium poppies for the pharma ind until well into the noughties.  If NB grew them to self-medicate was JB aware?  Assuming NB made the call to JB maybe JB was wondering why NB called him and not EP and put it down to the poppies.  Hence he made a point of explaining their existence. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #317 on: November 13, 2017, 04:00:49 PM »
If NB was growing opium poppies to self-medicate this may have been the reason he was reluctant to involve the authorities and called JB, if he did call JB. 

I'm sure we've all done something naughty at times and feel guilty/fear getting found out and become quite irrational about it!  I'm thinking when I go snooping and then feel guilty and fear I've left incriminating evidence behind and keep going back to check and then fear I've left some evidence from checking and so the cycle goes on!  What I am saying is assuming the poppies were only taking up a small amount of land the chances of the police identifying were slim.  Even if they did identify them there was nothing to prevent NB growing them for ornamental reasons but when you know you're doing something naughty/illegal it can all become irrational in your mind.   

The fact JB picked a bunch of opium poppies upon being told all his family were dead and then advised Dr Craig the farm had a licence to produce them for the pharma industry is to my mind significant. 

Research shows UK farms were not authorised to grow opium poppies for the pharma ind until well into the noughties.  If NB grew them to self-medicate was JB aware?  Assuming NB made the call to JB maybe JB was wondering why NB called him and not EP and put it down to the poppies.  Hence he made a point of explaining their existence.

Here is what the Dickinson Enquiry mentions about it. It seems to imply Dr Craig took Jeremy in that direction for a walk rather than Jeremy going to randomly pick the plants some distance away.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #318 on: November 13, 2017, 08:23:03 PM »
Here is what the Dickinson Enquiry mentions about it. It seems to imply Dr Craig took Jeremy in that direction for a walk rather than Jeremy going to randomly pick the plants some distance away.

Thanks David.  No mention of the poppies per se.  Here's another take:

Page 179 CAL's book:

"He [JB] was carrying a small bunch of opium poppies when Dr Ian Craig caught up with him.  Explaining that the farm had a special licence to grow them for the pharmaceutical industry..." 

CAL's source: 

"Ian Craig, notes for Essex Police 'A review of the Bamber Killings', November 1986.  Unless indicated otherwise, all quotes from Ian Craig in this chapter are from this source". Chapter 21, item 11.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #319 on: November 13, 2017, 08:35:43 PM »
During JB's interviews under caution he was asked why NB would call JB over the police.  JB replied NB wasn't the sort to involve the authorities.  According to RB, NB had a low regard for the local police referring to them as 'No better than Dad's Army'.  Everyone said NB and June kept SC's mental illness private.  So if NB called JB over EP it may have been for these sorts of reasons.  Or he may have feared his opium poppies coming to the attention of the authorities.  Would they be the sort of thing a sniffer dog would pick up on? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #320 on: November 13, 2017, 08:55:45 PM »
A quick Google search suggests the raw opium (the white stuff that oozes from the head) is smelly and easily detected by sniffer dogs.  If any such thing was going on at WHF the operation must have been carried out somewhere eg an outbuilding or the like with the process at varying stages at different times.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #321 on: November 13, 2017, 10:12:55 PM »
Thanks David.  No mention of the poppies per se.  Here's another take:

Page 179 CAL's book:

"He [JB] was carrying a small bunch of opium poppies when Dr Ian Craig caught up with him.  Explaining that the farm had a special licence to grow them for the pharmaceutical industry..." 

CAL's source: 

"Ian Craig, notes for Essex Police 'A review of the Bamber Killings', November 1986.  Unless indicated otherwise, all quotes from Ian Craig in this chapter are from this source". Chapter 21, item 11.

They could well have had a home office license to grow it.

MSL is the only company to currently hold a licence to manufacture opium derivatives in the UK. The Home Office has informed the OFT that it would be willing to issue a manufacturing licence to another company, which met the relevant security requirements. However it is not aware of any company which has attempted to gain a manufacturing licence in recent years or has indicated a desire to do so in the future.
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140402195904/http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/consumer_protection/oft834.pdf

It does not mention it could never have been done prior.

I doubt Nevill was some Heroin kingpin
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 10:16:52 PM by David1819 »

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #322 on: November 14, 2017, 09:32:29 AM »
They could well have had a home office license to grow it.

MSL is the only company to currently hold a licence to manufacture opium derivatives in the UK. The Home Office has informed the OFT that it would be willing to issue a manufacturing licence to another company, which met the relevant security requirements. However it is not aware of any company which has attempted to gain a manufacturing licence in recent years or has indicated a desire to do so in the future.
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140402195904/http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/consumer_protection/oft834.pdf

It does not mention it could never have been done prior.

I doubt Nevill was some Heroin kingpin

David we've been all through this months ago on this thread which is currently running at 22 pages.

In 2006 MacFarlan Smith Ltd (MSL) was permitted by the UK Gov to cultivate poppies in the UK for medicinal reasons in response to increasing global prices for poppy straw:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacFarlan_Smith

You find me some evidence of such activity before 2006 and next time we hook up for a beer they're on me.   8((()*/

I think it's unlikely NB was providing illegally for others.  Although not impossible and shouldn't be completely ruled out.  He certainly had the means and wherewithal: land, agricultural knowledge and possible knowledge from ww11 ,criminal contacts from role as magistrate.  We don't know any of these people and it's dangerous to assume too much!  The possibilities are numerous including being blackmailed.  If it was grown illegally IMO it's far more likely it was for own use.  You're aware NB spent months in hospital following a plane crash during WW11?  If he was prescribed morphine he may have become addicted to it and grew the poppies for own use.

Just reading the DM.  It has been found as a fact that Ben Emmerson QC tried to put his hand down the trousers of a female member of staff working on the child abuse inquiry.  It shouldn't be assumed that because a person is this or that they or more or less likely to behave in certain ways.  Don't assume.  Keep an open mind. 


Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #323 on: November 14, 2017, 04:14:12 PM »
David you seem convinced Dr Craig had a drink problem on the basis he arrived at WHF with a hip flask containing whisky.  Yet you seem convinced there's nothing untoward with the opium poppies growing at WHF?

You can see how easy it is to turn opium poppies into morphine.  Much easier than taking further steps to produce heroin:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/heroin/transform/

You can see the risk of addiction to morphine is noted as high:

"Morphine is a highly addictive substance".  (See under addiction).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphine

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #324 on: November 14, 2017, 04:25:00 PM »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #325 on: November 14, 2017, 04:45:15 PM »
According to CAL one source claims NB spent weeks in hospital with his back encased in plaster, while another claims he was out of action for 2 years with spinal injuries.  This was after his plane was shot down over N.Africa.

I have always thought the so-called burn marks to NB's back might be old scars from the above.

Even if he was pain free from his back injury post treatment he may have been troubled by the old injuries later in life.  Anyway it is possible if prescribed morphine he became addicted and/or self-medicated later in life. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #326 on: November 14, 2017, 05:24:14 PM »
The process of turning opium poppies into morphine:

About three months after the poppy seeds are planted, brightly-colored flowers bloom at the tips of greenish, tubular stems. As the petals fall away, they expose an egg-shaped seed pod. Inside the pod is an opaque, milky sap. This is opium in its crudest form.
    
The sap is extracted by slitting the pod vertically in parallel strokes with a special curved knife. As the sap oozes out, it turns darker and thicker, forming a brownish-black gum. A farmer collects the gum with a scraping knife, bundles it into bricks, cakes or balls and wraps them in a simple material such as plastic or leaves.
Then the opium enters the black market. A merchant or broker buys the packages for transport to a morphine refinery. "Most traffickers do their morphine refining close to the poppy fields, since compact morphine bricks are much easier to smuggle than bundles of pungent, jelly-like opium," writes Alfred W. McCoy in The Politics of Heroin.

At the refinery, which may be little more than a rickety laboratory equipped with oil drums and shrouded in a jungle thicket, the opium is mixed with lime in boiling water. A precipitate of organic waste sinks to the bottom. On the surface a white band of morphine forms. This is drawn off, reheated with ammonia, filtered and boiled again until it is reduced to a brown paste.
    
Poured into molds and dried in the sun, it is now morphine base, which has the consistency of dense modeling clay. Morphine base is smokable in a pipe - a practice introduced by the Dutch in the 17th century - or ready for further processing into heroin.


It seems an out building or the like would be required.  I believe the raid team searched all the out buildings but you say some raid team witness statements haven't been released.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #327 on: November 15, 2017, 08:48:11 AM »
David are you hiding from me? 

Another point to consider is the lump of whatever it was found in the safe considered to be cannabis resin which happens to have a similar appearance to morphine in its crudest form.  According to AE, JB told her she would find a surprise upon opening the safe.  The relatives then associated whatever it was with Roland Pargeter on the basis that he stayed at WHF during 1974 whilst the Bambers helped him overcome a drug habit.  This was 11 years before the tragedy and the connection with RP and the lump has never made any sense to me.  I believe the safe contained some correspondence from RP and that appears to be the connection. 

If NB confiscated whatever it was off of SC which JB evidently knew about then surely he would have said when he gave his WS.

In any event if NB confiscated it off anyone staying at WHF then there was no need to keep it in the safe.  He would do what the relatives did with it and throw it out.  Again the relatives had no right to destroy it.  It should have been handed over to the police for analysis.  What gave the relatives the right to determine what was handed over to the police ie silencer and what wasn't brown lump in safe? 

So it's possible the brown lump was morphine prepared for smoking.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Opium Poppies Grown at WHF?
« Reply #329 on: November 15, 2017, 09:52:05 AM »
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Couple-Arrested-After-Police-Make-Biggest-Opium-Poppy-Pod-Bust-in-Mountain-View-History-412765423.html

The opium poppy pods in the above case were shipped from UK.

WHF was ideally placed for transporting anything grown illegally out of the country.  Tracks lead down to the river and easy access to the channel.  It's also flat and possible for planes to land/take off.  I thought rumours swirled of planes landing/taking off with drugs? 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3450385.stm
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?