Author Topic: Was Calpol suspension licensed in Portugal in 2007?  (Read 38919 times)

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Offline Carana

Re: Was Calpol suspension licensed in Portugal in 2007?
« Reply #120 on: July 03, 2016, 02:49:59 PM »
And... does it matter anyway?

Offline John

Re: Was Calpol suspension licensed in Portugal in 2007?
« Reply #121 on: July 03, 2016, 02:53:47 PM »
Calpol is not illegal in Portugal.  If it were, then people in possession of Calpol would face charges and punishment - do they?

It is unlicenced for sale in Portugal.  Thus it is illegal to retail it in Portugal.  As far as your second point is concerned it appears the Portuguese police don't agree with you and it is their country.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Was Calpol suspension licensed in Portugal in 2007?
« Reply #122 on: July 03, 2016, 03:00:25 PM »

Could this be something to do with someone from some Forum, back in 2007 sending an email to J&J telling them about the accusations coming from The PJ Investigation regarding Calpol?

If I remember correctly, J&J were not amused and denied that Calpol was dangerous.

Offline John

Re: Was Calpol suspension licensed in Portugal in 2007?
« Reply #123 on: July 03, 2016, 03:07:59 PM »
I'm still lost as to the interest of this thread.

OP: Calpol was illegal in Portugal in 2007 in the McCann case and illegal in Portugal in the Irish case in 2015.



It wasn't "illegal" in May 2007. It simply wasn't on sale in PT at that time (whether or not it ever was).

What exactly does "illegal" mean?

For some reason, the sales authorisation appears to have been "revoked" in 2008 (but Merc's link concerns a higher dosage, thanks to Davel for spotting that).

It's not clear what exactly "revoked" actually means in this context.

Was it considered to be a dangerous substance (and therefore banned)?  Was the higher dosage as per Merc's link the issue? Or is it one of those situations in which getting anything launched requires.... erm, a helping hand (as in a license not being renewed)?

What is very clear thanks to the research done by you and mercury is that the McCanns took an oral child medicine with them to Portugal at a time when it was unlicensed in Portugal.  Coincidentally, Johnson and Johnson  the owners of the Calpol brand acquired approval to market the product within Portugal on the very day that Madeleine disappeared.  These are the facts.  It is not my intention to make any inference as regards them, simply to state them.

Clearly if a tourist brings Calpol from the UK and uses it in Portugal, that is not illegal.  Indeed, I have done the exact same thing while in Spain and I wasn't any the wiser.

What is also accepted is that overdosing on Calpol is highly dangerous to young children.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 03:10:13 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: Was Calpol suspension licensed in Portugal in 2007?
« Reply #124 on: July 03, 2016, 03:13:27 PM »
Could this be something to do with someone from some Forum, back in 2007 sending an email to J&J telling them about the accusations coming from The PJ Investigation regarding Calpol?

If I remember correctly, J&J were not amused and denied that Calpol was dangerous.

It could be Eleanor, certainly for J&J to have their licence revoked less than a year later just as the Maddie case was in full swing seems to be another coincidence too far.  The loss of Calpol sales in Portugal would not be something which any pharmaceutical company would take lightly.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 03:46:39 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Was Calpol suspension licensed in Portugal in 2007?
« Reply #125 on: July 03, 2016, 03:19:45 PM »
It is unlicenced for sale in Portugal.  Thus it is illegal to retail it in Portugal.  As far as your second point is concerned it appears the Portuguese police don't agree with you and it is their country.
Oh.  We're talking about the retail market are we?  I thought we were talking about people having Calpol in their possession and giving it to their kids.  As for your second point re: my second point, what is it the PT police don't agree with me about?

Offline John

Re: Was Calpol suspension licensed in Portugal in 2007?
« Reply #126 on: July 03, 2016, 03:50:24 PM »
Oh.  We're talking about the retail market are we?  I thought we were talking about people having Calpol in their possession and giving it to their kids.  As for your second point re: my second point, what is it the PT police don't agree with me about?

Do read the thread title, it would save the mods so much work.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 11:58:27 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Was Calpol suspension licensed in Portugal in 2007?
« Reply #127 on: July 03, 2016, 04:02:05 PM »
Do read the thread title, it would save the mods so much work.
The thread title was written by you, presumably, but bears little relation to the OP, in which SIL claimed Calpol was illegal in Portugal, not unlicensed.  Can you please tell me why it matters to this case whether Calpol was licensed or unlicensed in Portugal in 2007? 

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Was Calpol suspension licensed in Portugal in 2007?
« Reply #128 on: July 03, 2016, 04:22:25 PM »
I'm still lost as to the interest of this thread.

OP: Calpol was illegal in Portugal in 2007 in the McCann case and illegal in Portugal in the Irish case in 2015.



It wasn't "illegal" in May 2007. It simply wasn't on sale in PT at that time (whether or not it ever was).

What exactly does "illegal" mean?

For some reason, the sales authorisation appears to have been "revoked" in 2008 (but Merc's link concerns a higher dosage, thanks to Davel for spotting that).

It's not clear what exactly "revoked" actually means in this context.

Was it considered to be a dangerous substance (and therefore banned)?  Was the higher dosage as per Merc's link the issue? Or is it one of those situations in which getting anything launched requires.... erm, a helping hand (as in a license not being renewed)?
This thread was created by cutting a chunk out of another thread that was going off-topic.  You would need to find the original thread to get the context, in which the OP here made sense, but I won't bore anyone with the background.

You can tell by the fact that this thread has reached the length it has that some forum members are extremely sensitive re Calpol and its role in the McCann case, though I am at a loss to understand why.  I made very clear (either in this thread or the parent thread) that I had not researched this in detail because I personally did not consider it significant in the McCann case.

I consider it to be significant in the case of the Irish family in 2015, but as I am not interested in that case very much, other than it appears to me to be a bit of Portugal-bashing using Madeleine as the stick.

Hence, I was not willing to spend hours digging through the Portuguese medical system to find out how over-the-counter medicines are regulated, nor am I interested in spending hours researching what the Portuguese penal code says about hard drugs and about the use of non-licensed medicines.

Thanks to a bit of hard work by two or three members, I think the issue of Calpol in Portugal has now been clarified.

Take a look at the revocation article of March 2008 for 50mg Calpol, which I shall now call Calpol50.  Scroll right down to the bottom, and you will see the date this product was authorised.  It was not 3 May 2007.  It was years earlier.

To think the Portuguese company with the licence to market Calpol50 sat on it and did nothing beggars belief.  The reasonable assumption is that Calpol50 was on sale in Portugal for years.  Whether it was called Calpol or not, who cares.

Then we have the authorisation of 24mg Calpol on 3 May 2007, by a sheer coincidence the day Madeleine disappeared.

Why did the formula change from Calpol50 to Calpol24?  I could speculate, but I don't see the point.  When was Calpol50 withdrawn from the market? Again, I could speculate, but I don't see the point.  And I don't see the point of researching either.

Calpol50 might or might not have been available OTC in May 2007.  It may or may not have had some form of prohibition order in place to prevent its sale.  But the licence was not revoked until March 2008.

With that in place, how does the McCann case fit in with Calpol50?  It is still a non-issue.  I would assume UK Calpol was Calpol50, but it may have already been replaced by Calpol24 if J&J was quicker through the traps.  Anyone with a bottle of UK Calpol will be able to tell us if the current version is Calpol50 or Calpol24, which would only be relevant if the UK stuck with Calpol50.

If anyone can be bothered to check the archiving report (I'm not) then the consideration given to Calpol and to sedatives would become clear.  The McCanns were not charged with anything in this respect.  As neither the twins nor Madeleine were tested for drugs, one obvious line is ruled out.  I doubt very much whether the PJ tracked the product history of Calpol in Portugal from Calpol50 to Calpol24.  So even if there was a temporary ban on Calpol50 at the time, and the McCanns brought in Calpol50, I doubt the PJ would have twigged, and I have no idea what penalty, if any, there might be.

I think it is safe to assume the McCanns, like most UK families at the time, would have been ignorant of any restriction that might have been placed on Calpol in Portugal in April/May 2007, so again I see this as a non-issue.

Before anyone jumps in with 'this proves Calpol was not involved in Madeleine's disappearance', no it doesn't.  It is a trivial exercise to develop a scenario where Calpol plays a significant role, and where alternatives to Calpol play a significant role.  So I do hope we are not going to wander down that path.

Why doesn't Wiki have Calpol on sale?  Perhaps they don't know it is licensed to a Portuguese company.  If the name used in Portugal is not Calpol, perhaps they didn't pick that up.

Why has our daughter not seen Calpol in Portugal?  It could be that the range of chemists is too small to be significant.  Of course, if is not called Calpol, you have your explanation.

Thumbs up to those members who put time and effort into digging into this.  Please note, this is another instance of this forum turning up information that is not widespread elsewhere.
What's up, old man?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Was Calpol suspension licensed in Portugal in 2007?
« Reply #129 on: July 03, 2016, 05:08:40 PM »
This thread was created by cutting a chunk out of another thread that was going off-topic.  You would need to find the original thread to get the context, in which the OP here made sense, but I won't bore anyone with the background.

You can tell by the fact that this thread has reached the length it has that some forum members are extremely sensitive re Calpol and its role in the McCann case, though I am at a loss to understand why.  I made very clear (either in this thread or the parent thread) that I had not researched this in detail because I personally did not consider it significant in the McCann case.

I consider it to be significant in the case of the Irish family in 2015, but as I am not interested in that case very much, other than it appears to me to be a bit of Portugal-bashing using Madeleine as the stick.

Hence, I was not willing to spend hours digging through the Portuguese medical system to find out how over-the-counter medicines are regulated, nor am I interested in spending hours researching what the Portuguese penal code says about hard drugs and about the use of non-licensed medicines.

Thanks to a bit of hard work by two or three members, I think the issue of Calpol in Portugal has now been clarified.

Take a look at the revocation article of March 2008 for 50mg Calpol, which I shall now call Calpol50.  Scroll right down to the bottom, and you will see the date this product was authorised.  It was not 3 May 2007.  It was years earlier.

To think the Portuguese company with the licence to market Calpol50 sat on it and did nothing beggars belief.  The reasonable assumption is that Calpol50 was on sale in Portugal for years.  Whether it was called Calpol or not, who cares.

Then we have the authorisation of 24mg Calpol on 3 May 2007, by a sheer coincidence the day Madeleine disappeared.

Why did the formula change from Calpol50 to Calpol24?  I could speculate, but I don't see the point.  When was Calpol50 withdrawn from the market? Again, I could speculate, but I don't see the point.  And I don't see the point of researching either.

Calpol50 might or might not have been available OTC in May 2007.  It may or may not have had some form of prohibition order in place to prevent its sale.  But the licence was not revoked until March 2008.

With that in place, how does the McCann case fit in with Calpol50?  It is still a non-issue.  I would assume UK Calpol was Calpol50, but it may have already been replaced by Calpol24 if J&J was quicker through the traps.  Anyone with a bottle of UK Calpol will be able to tell us if the current version is Calpol50 or Calpol24, which would only be relevant if the UK stuck with Calpol50.

If anyone can be bothered to check the archiving report (I'm not) then the consideration given to Calpol and to sedatives would become clear.  The McCanns were not charged with anything in this respect.  As neither the twins nor Madeleine were tested for drugs, one obvious line is ruled out.  I doubt very much whether the PJ tracked the product history of Calpol in Portugal from Calpol50 to Calpol24.  So even if there was a temporary ban on Calpol50 at the time, and the McCanns brought in Calpol50, I doubt the PJ would have twigged, and I have no idea what penalty, if any, there might be.

I think it is safe to assume the McCanns, like most UK families at the time, would have been ignorant of any restriction that might have been placed on Calpol in Portugal in April/May 2007, so again I see this as a non-issue.

Before anyone jumps in with 'this proves Calpol was not involved in Madeleine's disappearance', no it doesn't.  It is a trivial exercise to develop a scenario where Calpol plays a significant role, and where alternatives to Calpol play a significant role.  So I do hope we are not going to wander down that path.

Why doesn't Wiki have Calpol on sale?  Perhaps they don't know it is licensed to a Portuguese company.  If the name used in Portugal is not Calpol, perhaps they didn't pick that up.

Why has our daughter not seen Calpol in Portugal?  It could be that the range of chemists is too small to be significant.  Of course, if is not called Calpol, you have your explanation.

Thumbs up to those members who put time and effort into digging into this.  Please note, this is another instance of this forum turning up information that is not widespread elsewhere.
##

The thread started because you incorrectly claimed Calpol was illegal in Portugal. You refused to aknowledge your mistake even when it was pointed out you were wrong and continued to claim it to be illlegal. A further point is that not having a licence does not make a drug illegal and many drugs are used off licence.

you still don't seem to realise that bringing Calpol into Portugal would not be illegal. Calpol did not play a part in maddie's abduction....the whole idea is absurd

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Was Calpol suspension licensed in Portugal in 2007?
« Reply #130 on: July 03, 2016, 05:17:25 PM »
Prescribing in a patient’s best interests
However, there are clinical situations when the use of unlicensed medicines or use of medicines outside the terms of the licence (ie, ‘off-label’) may be judged by the prescriber to be in the best interest of the patient on the basis of available evidence. Such practice is particularly common in certain areas of medicine: for instance, in paediatrics where difficulties in the development of age-appropriate formulations means that many medicines used in children are used off-label or are unlicensed.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Was Calpol suspension licensed in Portugal in 2007?
« Reply #131 on: July 03, 2016, 06:10:30 PM »
##

The thread started because you incorrectly claimed Calpol was illegal in Portugal. You refused to aknowledge your mistake even when it was pointed out you were wrong and continued to claim it to be illlegal. A further point is that not having a licence does not make a drug illegal and many drugs are used off licence.

you still don't seem to realise that bringing Calpol into Portugal would not be illegal. Calpol did not play a part in maddie's abduction....the whole idea is absurd
I have summed up the correct situation, but it looks like that is not enough for some.  There are posters here who assert a position without being willing to substantiate it, and there are those who are willing to dig deeper when a statement is challenged.

When it became clear that the asserters were simply going to claim it was legal, without substantiation, I among others, posted evidence to try to clarify it.  Thanks to those people, we are better informed than most people as to what was going on.

Now you have thrown in another assertion - that Calpol did not play a part in the disappearance of Madeleine.

Since we have no evidence to accurately prove what happened to Madeleine, I would love to see something more solid behind your assertion than 'the whole idea is absurd'.

I am willing to wager you won't.
What's up, old man?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Was Calpol suspension licensed in Portugal in 2007?
« Reply #132 on: July 03, 2016, 06:11:13 PM »
Thanks mercury, that was what I was looking for, the Calpol licence was revoked by the Portuguese authorities on 11th March 2008.

It would be interesting to know if the McCann case had some bearing on this decision.

In conclusion therefore, according to the record's, Calpol was licensed for distribution and sale in Portugal from 3rd May 2007 until 11th March 2008.

calpol 24 was licenced in may 2007........calpol 50 was repealed in 2008...so when was calpol 50 licenced?
Whatever the dates calpol was not illegal in portugal as sil stated

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Was Calpol suspension licensed in Portugal in 2007?
« Reply #133 on: July 03, 2016, 06:13:19 PM »
I have summed up the correct situation, but it looks like that is not enough for some.  There are posters here who assert a position without being willing to substantiate it, and there are those who are willing to dig deeper when a statement is challenged.

When it became clear that the asserters were simply going to claim it was legal, without substantiation, I among others, posted evidence to try to clarify it.  Thanks to those people, we are better informed than most people as to what was going on.

Now you have thrown in another assertion - that Calpol did not play a part in the disappearance of Madeleine.

Since we have no evidence to accurately prove what happened to Madeleine, I would love to see something more solid behind your assertion than 'the whole idea is absurd'.

I am willing to wager you won't.
Could you sum up the correct situation by clarifying with a simple yes or no answer if it is illegal to possess Calpol in Portugal and to give it to your children?  Thanks in advance. 

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Was Calpol suspension licensed in Portugal in 2007?
« Reply #134 on: July 03, 2016, 06:18:04 PM »
I have summed up the correct situation, but it looks like that is not enough for some.  There are posters here who assert a position without being willing to substantiate it, and there are those who are willing to dig deeper when a statement is challenged.

When it became clear that the asserters were simply going to claim it was legal, without substantiation, I among others, posted evidence to try to clarify it.  Thanks to those people, we are better informed than most people as to what was going on.

Now you have thrown in another assertion - that Calpol did not play a part in the disappearance of Madeleine.

Since we have no evidence to accurately prove what happened to Madeleine, I would love to see something more solid behind your assertion than 'the whole idea is absurd'.

I am willing to wager you won't.

the whole idea is absurd because there are two claims re calpol...
First..sedation...absurd as calpol is not a sedative

second poisoning...death from paracetamol  poisoning is slow...2 to 3 days and it would be difficult for  a child to drink enough calpol to reach a fatal dose. Adults can easily swallow 100 tablets...I have never heard of a childs death due to calpol poisoning...have you