A fresh look at Eddie the cadaver dog and those alerts.

[ferryman]

It is unfair to blame Grime for the way in which the inspections were undertaken.  He was not responsible for the way in which the items to be inspected were transported or laid out, nor did he have the authority to veto decisions made by the police in charge in respect of locations etc.  He was put in the position where he either went along with the PJ or renege and return home.  I'm sure he would be the first to admit that the deployment was not ideal by any stretch of the imagination.

Point to note:  From Mr Grime's profile:

POINTS TO ASSIST

Whilst it is stated that the E.V.R D. is originally trained using pig the following notes

of guidance should be considered when assessing indications:

P In six years operational deployment in over 200 cases the dog has never

alerted to meat based foodstuffs.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_PERSONAL.htm

What's most important about the inspection in the gym?

The fact that Eddie picked certain items up in his mouth?

Or the fact that clothing he, apparently, could find no trace of a scent of in the villa, he (apparently) could (exactly the same items!) in the gym?

And the number of operational deployments for Eddie, by the way, is 37 (in 5 years), confirmed by South Yorkshire Police in an FOI answer.

Maybe a few more in the 6th.

But certainly not 170 more ....

[Eleanor]

A bit like Amaral and Leonor's Fridge then.  I wouldn't have minded seeing Eddie's reaction to that.

[pathfinder73]

Professional trained dogs can smell human cadaver remnant scent 3 months later but humans can't! Eddie has been proven to have done so in other cases and no chicken or pig went missing from 5A.

[Mr Gray]

Professional trained dogs can smell human cadaver remnant scent 3 months later but humans can't! Eddie has been proven to have done so in other cases and no chicken or pig went missing from 5A.

The three months was in a closed room
There is no data for how long scent would last in a room like 5a
And likewise for how long the scent would last outside in a flowerbed

[pathfinder73]

The three months was in a closed room
There is no data for how long scent would last in a room like 5a
And likewise for how long the scent would last outside in a flowerbed

Dogs alerted to scent many years later (not months) in the Zapata case so don't underestimate a dog's nose.

Oct. 11, 1976: Jeanette Zapata vanishes.

Jan. 12, 2005: Madison police use cadaver dogs to check the basement of Zapata's former home on Indian Trace in Madison. Other cadaver dog searches of that property and other locations take place throughout 2005 and into 2006. The dogs alert to the scent of human remains, but none are found.

[misty]

Dogs alerted to scent many years later (not months) in the Zapata case so don't underestimate a dog's nose.

Oct. 11, 1976: Jeanette Zapata vanishes.

Jan. 12, 2005: Madison police use cadaver dogs to check the basement of Zapata's former home on Indian Trace in Madison. Other cadaver dog searches of that property and other locations take place throughout 2005 and into 2006. The dogs alert to the scent of human remains, but none are found.

I hope you are following with interest the cadaver dogs in the Deorr Kunz case. Seems a PI, too, with an expert canine, can find many clues local law enforcement officers & their dogs failed to.

[Mr Gray]

Dogs alerted to scent many years later (not months) in the Zapata case so don't underestimate a dog's nose.

Oct. 11, 1976: Jeanette Zapata vanishes.

Jan. 12, 2005: Madison police use cadaver dogs to check the basement of Zapata's former home on Indian Trace in Madison. Other cadaver dog searches of that property and other locations take place throughout 2005 and into 2006. The dogs alert to the scent of human remains, but none are found.

The dogs seem to alert everywhere so it's not surprising some results are confirmed yrs later
It's called junk science
Eddie only seemed to get any confirmed results in about 5 cases
If he alerts at the site of a missing person there is a reasonable chance a body will have been there

[pathfinder73]

I hope you are following with interest the cadaver dogs in the Deorr Kunz case. Seems a PI, too, with an expert canine, can find many clues local law enforcement officers & their dogs failed to.

I'm doing my best to follow it thanks Misty. "They both have mental health issues." Sheriff Lyn Bowerman 

[pathfinder73]

The dogs seem to alert everywhere so it's not surprising some results are confirmed yrs later
It's called junk science
Eddie only seemed to get any confirmed results in about 5 cases
If he alerts at the site of a missing person there is a reasonable chance a body will have been there

  How didn't he alert in any other apartment or anything related to Murat?

[misty]

I'm doing my best to follow it thanks Misty. "They both have mental health issues." Sheriff Lyn Bowerman

And Mr Klein has just thanked the public for purchasing to date 5000 copies  of his book The Klein Files.

[Lace]

How didn't he alert in any other apartment or anything related to Murat?

Yes how come he didn't?   Strange isn't it that Eddie alerted to the key fob which had Gerry's blood on it,  yet he didn't alert once to blood in ANY of the other apartments,  in all the years that people have stayed in those apartments there was no trace of blood.

If maybe Eddie had alerted to blood in the other apartments,   if Eddie hadn't been called back numerous times to the bedroom in 5a before he alerted.   If Eddie hadn't have just played with Cuddle Cat and picked the clothes up in his mouth,  and hadn't alerted to a coconut,  then maybe I would have taken the alerts more seriously.

[pathfinder73]

Yes how come he didn't?   Strange isn't it that Eddie alerted to the key fob which had Gerry's blood on it,  yet he didn't alert once to blood in ANY of the other apartments,  in all the years that people have stayed in those apartments there was no trace of blood.

If maybe Eddie had alerted to blood in the other apartments,   if Eddie hadn't been called back numerous times to the bedroom in 5a before he alerted.   If Eddie hadn't have just played with Cuddle Cat and picked the clothes up in his mouth,  and hadn't alerted to a coconut,  then maybe I would have taken the alerts more seriously.

Grime didn't say he alerted to blood. It could have been another reason. Keela alerted to blood in the boot not matching Gerry but Madeleine's profile. They should have asked Gerry if he remembered how he got blood on his car key? Just to see his reaction.

[Mr Gray]

Grime didn't say he alerted to blood. It could have been another reason. Keela alerted to blood in the boot not matching Gerry but Madeleine's profile. They should have asked Gerry if he remembered how he got blood on his car key? Just to see his reaction.

There was no blood recovered from the boot and no match to maddies profile from the DNA found there

[pathfinder73]

There was no blood recovered from the boot and no match to maddies profile from the DNA found there

From: Lowe, Mr J R [mailto:John.Lowe@fss.pnn.police.uk
Sent: 03 September 2007 15:01
To: stuart.prior@leicestershire.pnn.police.uk
Subject: Op Task - In Confidence

Stuart

Firstly, here are the last three results you are expecting

An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid.

There is no evidence to support the view that Madeline MCCann contributed DNA to the swab 3B.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm

[Eleanor]

I despair.  I really do.  This is turning into, "Who can come up with the daftest idea."