Interpreting the facts using a different paradigm

[Robittybob1]

Usually threads must be based on known established facts and not suspicious or theory.
But what happens if you look at the same facts without  the usual interpretation of those facts, and the final summation of the alternatives giving us a totally different paradigm.
Let us look at each "fact" and what other situations could result in exactly the same fact.  Can those alternatives finally be pieced together to get another reality as to what happened to Madeleine McCann?

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[Alfie]

I thought you were going to solve this case by psychic means using your substitute cuddle cat as a conduit?

[Mr Gray]

Usually threads must be based on known established facts and not suspicious or theory.
But what happens if you look at the same facts without  the usual interpretation of those facts, and the final summation of the alternatives giving us a totally different paradigm.
Let us look at each "fact" and what other situations could result in exactly the same fact.  Can those alternatives finally be pieced together to get another reality as to what happened to Madeleine McCann.

of course...she was abducted

[Robittybob1]

I thought you were going to solve this case by psychic means using your substitute cuddle cat as a conduit?

Once I asked the question "who owned the Cuddle Cat before they did" I have not heard from them, so I  have not been able to finalise the purchase.    They may just be away on holiday so I'll wait for a response.

[Robittybob1]

of course...she was abducted

Abducted is an outcome, a deduction, and not a fact as such. I'm trying to think  how this thread will work.  She is missing that is a fact and being abducted is a reason for being missing.  But if the parents were involved we wouldn't used the word abducted but rather hidden.  So what other choices do we have? Wandered away, and abducted by aliens (just to keep everyone happy) .
Missing >> abducted or hidden or wandered off (and then hidden or abducted) or abducted by aliens.
Fact Madeleine is missing:
1.  abducted
2.  or hidden
3.  or wandered off (and then hidden or abducted)
4.  or abducted by aliens.
No 1 was further broken down to:
1.1.  Stranger abduction
1.2.  or Acquaintance abduction

What is the next fact?

[mercury]

Usually threads must be based on known established facts and not suspicious or theory.
But what happens if you look at the same facts without  the usual interpretation of those facts, and the final summation of the alternatives giving us a totally different paradigm.
Let us look at each "fact" and what other situations could result in exactly the same fact.  Can those alternatives finally be pieced together to get another reality as to what happened to Madeleine McCann.

Good luck
Those that believe and vehemently  promote an abduction are hardened, will not be swayed, will say black is white, those of us who are sceptics are more open minded, but we draw a line somewhere, ie at two cuddlecats and two missing children on the night and other such fanciful ideas for whch there really is no evidence

[Robittybob1]

Good luck
Those that believe and vehemently  promote an abduction are hardened, will not be swayed, will say black is white, those of us who are sceptics are more open minded, but we draw a line somewhere, ie at two cuddlecats and two missing children on the night and other such fanciful ideas for which there really is no evidence

So what was your preferred option to explain "Missing"?  Being sceptical is fine as long as you are sceptical of the abduction but what do you fill that space with?

[John]

So what was your preferred option to explain "Missing"?  Being sceptical is fine as long as you are sceptical of the abduction but what do you fill that space with?

As to reality, there are other possible scenarios which have been looked at in detail in other threads, is this going somewhere or is this thread doomed to the inevitable?

[mercury]

So what was your preferred option to explain "Missing"?  Being sceptical is fine as long as you are sceptical of the abduction but what do you fill that space with?

I dont have a "preferred option"

What happened is unclear, and there have been many confusng factors, ergo this case is an open case and open to question and scrutiny

The parents actions and behaviours have been a major point of contention, but even without that there is no evidence of abduction much and one cannot entirely ignore the cadaver dog alerts either, onbalance, imo there was no stranger abduction, there mght have been, bug in my informed personal opinion there wasnt

[Robittybob1]

I dont have a "preferred option"

What happened is unclear, and there have been many confusng factors, ergo this case is an open case and open to question and scrutiny

The parents actions and behaviours have been a major point of contention, but even without that there is no evidence of abduction much and one cannot entirely ignore the cadaver dog alerts either, onbalance, imo there was no stranger abduction, there might have been, but in my informed personal opinion there wasn't

So did I get that right you split abduction into stranger abduction and acquaintance abduction, and acquaintance abductor is your option over stranger abduction.
What period of time could an acquaintance spend on an abduction.  For a lot of suspicion and pressure must have fallen on Matt since he did the last check and on the next check by Kate MM is missing.  So have you got a timing of that check done by Matt?  And then do you think the acquaintance abduction would have been before or after that check?

[Robittybob1]

As to reality, there are other possible scenarios which have been looked at in detail in other threads, is this going somewhere or is this thread doomed to the inevitable?

Well I'm going to do my best John not to use the word "theory" in the entire thread, so maybe that will be progress.  I just want to know all the options at each known factual step and see if one option keeps reoccurring.

If you know of the other scenarios please just mention them for I have not been here that long and it is a huge forum.  I want to consider all the scenarios one fact at a time.

[Robittybob1]

..snip ..
The parents actions and behaviours have been a major point of contention, ...snip ...

Has there been a discussion on this aspect on the forum?  What did you notice about the parents actions and behaviour (facts) that might sway your opinion as to outcome?

[Robittybob1]

.... the cadaver dog alerts either  ....

My view on these cadaver dog alerts in the apartment G5A are indicative that a cadaver had been in the wardrobe.
And the blood behind the sofa stayed moist enough to decompose and raise an alert.  But the alert does not point to a person.  It could have been MM or someone else, but a prior cadaver presence has to be accounted for.

Since there are sightings of Smithman carrying a MM look alike I'd discount MM as the source of the cadaver odour.
If you say the cadaver odour came from MM and Smithman was just taking her for a burial down at the beach she would have needed to have died much earlier in the evening. (Why would a stranger or an acquaintance ever do this???)

[Robittybob1]

Since there was no other items taken it makes burglary gone wrong seem less likely.
Burglary:
1.  Intending to steal valuable items (Nothing reported taken)
2.  Intending to steal a child. (Madeleine missing.  This actually falls under the heading of abduction but the abduction is purposed for monetary reasons e.g. the sale of a child. (Is there such a thing?)
Questions:
Why would they take Madeleine and not one of the younger smaller lighter twins?  Would a younger child fit into a new family easier? A four year old is going to memorise who she is. Is she going to be harder to assimilate (4 year old)  into a new family?
Later on when the fund and the reward for finding Madeleine grew to 2.8 million pounds then she did have real value  (Kate mentions the risk of this happening in her book.)

[pathfinder73]

So did I get that right you split abduction into stranger abduction and acquaintance abduction, and acquaintance abductor is your option over stranger abduction.
What period of time could an acquaintance spend on an abduction.  For a lot of suspicion and pressure must have fallen on Matt since he did the last check and on the next check by Kate MM is missing.  So have you got a timing of that check done by Matt?  And then do you think the acquaintance abduction would have been before or after that check?

According to Kate's book Madeleine, Gerry heard Matt screaming in the interview room after being accused by the PJ of removing Madeleine from the apartment. The interesting fact here is in that interview he revealed Kate left at 9:50 to check not 10. Amazing what crucial information pressure can bring out