The role of The British tour operators in the MM case.

[slartibartfast]

They set out with no intention of staying in with their children, using the night creche or hiring a baby-sitter.

The Oldfield child wasn't right, she seemed to have the runs every night.

The O'Brien child was kept out of kids club because she wasn't well. The O'Briens did increase their checking intervals, Jane Tanner said.

If the McCanns increased theirs [to every 30 minutes] how often had they been checking previously?

There are many dangers involved in leaving children home alone, which doctors with experience of A & E would be aware of. I'm no doctor and I can list them! Leaving those patio doors open to that balcony was negligent no matter what the Portuguese said.

Add in the Payne's listener, it leaves Madeleine as a bit of an odd one out.

[Robittybob1]

Add in the Payne's listener, it leaves Madeleine as a bit of an odd one out.

Had there been a listening device in the McCann's apartment would those little bits of extra noise made by sliding open the sliding window and gently lifting Madeleine out of bed been enough to hear over the noise in the restaurant.  I have my doubts.  If Madeleine woke and cried, maybe, but if lifted gently kids can remain asleep.  It would be the regular presence of the adults checking the rooms the biggest deterrent to any random abductor, to the point I think an abductor would not have risked it. 

[G-Unit]

Had there been a listening device in the McCann's apartment would those little bits of extra noise made by sliding open the sliding window and gently lifting Madeleine out of bed been enough to hear over the noise in the restaurant.  I have my doubts.  If Madeleine woke and cried, maybe, but if lifted gently kids can remain asleep.  It would be the regular presence of the adults checking the rooms the biggest deterrent to any random abductor, to the point I think an abductor would not have risked it.

No-one knows why or how Madeleine McCann disappeared. No-one knows who checked the children or how often it was done. Only one witness saw any of them near the apartments on the evening of 3rd May, and neither he nor the two Tapas diners were seen by a couple who were in the area at roughly the same time.

Speculation about the noise made by an abductor is pointless therefore. First you need to demonstrate the abductor existed.

[Robittybob1]

No-one knows why or how Madeleine McCann disappeared. No-one knows who checked the children or how often it was done. Only one witness saw any of them near the apartments on the evening of 3rd May, and neither he nor the two Tapas diners were seen by a couple who were in the area at roughly the same time.

Speculation about the noise made by an abductor is pointless therefore. First you need to demonstrate the abductor existed.

You aren't asking for much are you!  Well any accidental death would that be picked up with a baby monitor?  It reminds me of cockpit voice recorder and how many times they analyse the recording before they get a clue as what might have caused a plane crash.  I can't see how a baby monitor would help unless someone came into the apartment and smashed it up and made the kids scream.   OK it would be very useful if a child woke up and started incessant crying, but to prevent a stealthy child abduction it would pointless.     

[jassi]

You aren't asking for much are you!  Well any accidental death would that be picked up with a baby monitor?  It reminds me of cockpit voice recorder and how many times they analyse the recording before they get a clue as what might have caused a plane crash.  I can't see how a baby monitor would help unless someone came into the apartment and smashed it up and made the kids scream.  OK it would be very useful if a child woke up and started incessant crying, but to prevent a stealthy child abduction it would pointless.   

That's what its purpose was. -None of them gave any thought to anything else. - that's why they were only listening at the door or window.

[Alice Purjorick]

Meanwhile the British Tour Operator has provided accommodation that presumably meets any necessary codes, has put warning notices in apartments, has provided a creche and  baby sitting service.
It is hard to see how they are culpable in any way.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Meanwhile the British Tour Operator has provided accommodation that presumably meets any necessary codes, has put warning notices in apartments, has provided a creche and  baby sitting service.
It is hard to see how they are culpable in any way.

...And if it were anyone else I would agree, but this is the McCanns- who are victims and it was obviously someone elses fault, some days it seems it was everybody elses fault!

"What sort of checking could have prevented a determined abductor?" Robbie quote

The sort that has the children enjoying dinner with their parents kind of checking-like not lettig your children outof your sight unless a responsible adult is looking after them and why was this the Tour Operators fault?

[G-Unit]

...And if it were anyone else I would agree, but this is the McCanns- who are victims and it was obviously someone elses fault, some days it seems it was everybody elses fault!

"What sort of checking could have prevented a determined abductor?" Robbie quote

The sort that has the children enjoying dinner with their parents kind of checking-like not lettig your children outof your sight unless a responsible adult is looking after them and why was this the Tour Operators fault?

Ah, but it felt so safe and nobody warned them about the sneak thieves or the assaults on British children or how the apartment was in the worst position in the town. They didn't realise the windows weren't locked or that the shutters could be raised from outside or that leaving doors unlocked might be a bad idea.

They never spotted any of the suspicious characters littering the streets near the apartment. Nobody [I assume] ever warned them of the dangers of children choking, crying, playing with knives or medicines if left home alone.

Are these risks greater or smaller than taking children out in the car? Kate pointed out that car rides were risky, she knew that.

[Robittybob1]

Meanwhile the British Tour Operator has provided accommodation that presumably meets any necessary codes, has put warning notices in apartments, has provided a creche and  baby sitting service.
It is hard to see how they are culpable in any way.

That is certainly the view the OC management want to maintain.  But there has been an incident and no one wants to take responsibility for it.  Goncalo and the PJ could tell that the Tapas 7 statements didn't ring true so he could start thinking they are part of it.  Now whether SY feels the same I'm not sure, maybe they prefer an abductor and to treat the McCanns and Tapas 7 as victims.  But the opportunity for an abductor is very slim, and this should have allowed for the friend's statements to be very coherent but they are not, so Goncalo ruled out abductors and put the blame onto the parents and the friends in an act of desperation.

All the statements start with a warning statement as follows "This statement (consisting of xx pages and signed by vv) is the truth and in accordance with my understanding. I offer this evidence with the knowledge that, if proven to the contrary, I may be subject to litigation if having voluntarily witnessed something which is false or does not correspond to the truth."  So what I'm asking is not without justification.

[G-Unit]

MW were understandably concerned about their reputation. It's clear that the creches were sloppily run, with children not being signed out or in and nannies signing them out.

The T9 were concerned about their reputations also. They all knew full well that leaving kids home alone isn't recommended in the UK. Both groups were therefore somewhat guarded and careful in what they said.

I don't think your solution is remotely believable, however.

[Eleanor]

The Role of British Tour Operators in The MM Case..

Is this difficult to understand?

I will be deleting Off Topic Posts from now on.

[John]

The Role of British Tour Operators in The MM Case..

Is this difficult to understand?

I will be deleting Off Topic Posts from now on.

Thank you Eleanor. I have removed the off topic posts as per the forum rules.

[Robittybob1]

Did you think it suspicious that three Managers of the OC Mark Warner Co had gone into the kids bedroom?   I don't see the necessity they had to be in there and their presence only contributed to the level of contamination of the crime scene.

[ShiningInLuz]

This is 100% on-topic, so I would be grateful if it is allowed to remain.

Does anyone know
1 The time at which Gerry allegedly made his 'paedophile' phone call on the night of 3 - 4 May?
2 Who Gerry had been in contact with prior to that?  I am particularly interested in the British Embassy in Portugal or the British Consulate in the Algarve, but this info may have popped into Gerry's head via a different route.

Roughly speaking, how did Gerry switch from 'it was OK to leave the patio door unlocked' to 'Portugal is rife with paedophile rings'?

And the topic connection is - what, if anything, did MW/TC/OC know about this subject?

[Robittybob1]

This is 100% on-topic, so I would be grateful if it is allowed to remain.

Does anyone know
1 The time at which Gerry allegedly made his 'paedophile' phone call on the night of 3 - 4 May?
2 Who Gerry had been in contact with prior to that?  I am particularly interested in the British Embassy in Portugal or the British Consulate in the Algarve, but this info may have popped into Gerry's head via a different route.

Roughly speaking, how did Gerry switch from 'it was OK to leave the patio door unlocked' to 'Portugal is rife with paedophile rings'?

And the topic connection is - what, if anything, did MW/TC/OC know about this subject?

SiL you have asked some very on-topic questions but personally I'd have no idea how we could ever answer them.  There is a detailed time line of calls made to and from Gerry on the web. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_INFORMATION.htm
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3388.0

What did MW/TC/OC know about this subject?  We'd have to ask them.