Why did AE not mention the finding of the silencer in her WS of 14th Aug '85?

[Holly Goodhead]

It appears from AE's COLP interview that she provided a WS on 14th Aug and yet failed to mention:

- the finding of the silencer on 10th Aug
- her own observations about the blood on the silencer which she testified about at trial describing the blood as a "blob of jam".
- her brother and husband examining the silencer at Oak Farm on 10th Aug
- DS Jones collecting the silencer from Oak Farm on 13 Aug
 
It seems from her WS's in Sep '85 she immediately grasps the significance of the find:

AE WS 8th - 13th Sep 1985

"We discussed the implication of how this silencer could be in the gun cupboard with blood and paint on it. Obviously if it was being alleged that somebody had had a brainstorm and shot dead four people they would surely not have stopped to remove the silencer, put it back in the gun cupboard, go back upstairs and shoot herself dead".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=3108

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=3110

AE WS 14th Aug 1991 - Investigation by City of London police

"I have been asked why in my statement dated 14.8.85 is there no mention of the finding of the silencer. The only reason I can think of is that DS Jones was not convinced of our observations hence it was a nothing statement. I don't even think we spoke about it".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3171.0;attach=3584

Based on AE's WS's it seems to me she had a mind for the minutiae and yet fails to mention the silencer supposedly because "DS Jones was not convinced of our observations".  DS Jones was a low ranking police officer not a forensic scientist capable of forensically examining the silencer.  Hence the reason the silencer was taken to the lab on 13th Aug for forensic examination and subsequently taken elsewhere for fingerprinting.

 &%+((£

[Holly Goodhead]

AE WS 8th Sep - 13th Sep 1985

The colour of this paint immediately reminded me of the red paint work around the surround of the kitchen at White House Farm:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=3110

AE WS 14th Aug 1991 (COLP Investigation)

"Where on page 47 of my statement dated 8th September I state, 'The colour of this paint immediately reminded me of the red paint work around the surround of the kitchen at White House Farm'.  This was not really the case.  It was on the 14th August in talking to DS Jones, DI Miller and DI Cook at Oak Farm, that I realised that the paint on the silencer was similar to the surround":

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3171.0;attach=3564

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3171.0;attach=3566

 &%+((£

[scipio_usmc]

It appears from AE's COLP interview that she provided a WS on 14th Aug and yet failed to mention:

- the finding of the silencer on 10th Aug
- her own observations about the blood on the silencer which she testified about at trial describing the blood as a "blob of jam".
- her brother and husband examining the silencer at Oak Farm on 10th Aug
- DS Jones collecting the silencer from Oak Farm on 13 Aug
 
It seems from her WS's in Sep '85 she immediately grasps the significance of the find:

AE WS 8th - 13th Sep 1985

"We discussed the implication of how this silencer could be in the gun cupboard with blood and paint on it. Obviously if it was being alleged that somebody had had a brainstorm and shot dead four people they would surely not have stopped to remove the silencer, put it back in the gun cupboard, go back upstairs and shoot herself dead".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=3108

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=3110

AE WS 14th Aug 1991 - Investigation by City of London police

"I have been asked why in my statement dated 14.8.85 is there no mention of the finding of the silencer. The only reason I can think of is that DS Jones was not convinced of our observations hence it was a nothing statement. I don't even think we spoke about it".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3171.0;attach=3584

Based on AE's WS's it seems to me she had a mind for the minutiae and yet fails to mention the silencer supposedly because "DS Jones was not convinced of our observations".  DS Jones was a low ranking police officer not a forensic scientist capable of forensically examining the silencer.  Hence the reason the silencer was taken to the lab on 13th Aug for forensic examination and subsequently taken elsewhere for fingerprinting.

 &%+((£

She was only asked to provide information about Sheila. They wanted info on Sheila's problems because they thought sheila did it.  They didn't ask anything about what Ann had done until September.

[Holly Goodhead]

She was only asked to provide information about Sheila. They wanted info on Sheila's problems because they thought sheila did it.  They didn't ask anything about what Ann had done until September.

So if you know this why didn't COLP?  Why did COLP ask AE:

"I have been asked why in my statement dated 14.8.85 is there no mention of the finding of the silencer. The only reason I can think of is that DS Jones was not convinced of our observations hence it was a nothing statement. I don't even think we spoke about it".

I would have expected COLP to show greater sensitivity towards surviving family members than bluster in asking unnecessary intrusive questions and raking up what were undoubtedly painful memories for AE.

[scipio_usmc]

So if you know this why didn't COLP?  Why did COLP ask AE:

"I have been asked why in my statement dated 14.8.85 is there no mention of the finding of the silencer. The only reason I can think of is that DS Jones was not convinced of our observations hence it was a nothing statement. I don't even think we spoke about it".

I would have expected COLP to show greater sensitivity towards surviving family members than bluster in asking unnecessary intrusive questions and raking up what were undoubtedly painful memories for AE.

They did know.  Just go read it and look at the nature of the statement, I simply stated the obvious. Due to the nature of the allegations the defense made they had to ask.

[Holly Goodhead]

They did know.  Just go read it and look at the nature of the statement, I simply stated the obvious. Due to the nature of the allegations the defense made they had to ask.

You've lost me?! 

I hadn't realised until recently AE made a WS on 14th Aug 1985.  Do you have a copy you can post?

COLP asked AE in 1991 why she didn't mention the finding of the silencer in her WS of 14th Aug '85  I have thought in the past it didn't seem right that DS Jones didn't take WS's when he collected the silencer from all those who were present when it was found on 10th Aug and subsequently handled it until he collected it on 12th Aug.  When did DB, RB, PE, BW and BC first provide WS's and did they contain info about the silencer?

Why would any member of EP tell AE what to include and exclude in a WS let alone tell her to exclude the silencer which just happened to end up being the most incriminating aspect of the prosecution case against JB.  Why would AE exclude the silencer when according to her WS's taken in Sept she immediately grasped the significance of it:

"We discussed the implication of how this silencer could be in the gun cupboard with blood and paint on it. Obviously if it was being alleged that somebody had had a brainstorm and shot dead four people they would surely not have stopped to remove the silencer, put it back in the gun cupboard, go back upstairs and shoot herself dead".

Anyone reading AE's WS's will surely appreciate she has a mind for the minutiae whereby she includes a lot of trivial, petty and irrelevant detail.  Why on earth would she omit the silencer?!

You surely don't need to be police trained to realise that if you get a call saying words to the effect 'we've found the silencer to the murder weapon, it has blood and paint on it' that an officer would arrive with an exhibit bag and appropriate stationery for taking witness statements.  DS Jones wasn't pushed for time since he was happy to wile away the evening drinking whisky with PE as per AE's COLP WS.  DS Jones went empty handed: no exhibit bag and/or stationery for WS's or if he did he didn't bother taking any and he took the silencer away in a kitchen roll tube supplied by the Eatons I assume. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Just checked CAL's book to see if she makes any ref to AE's WS of 14th Aug but I can't find any.

The 'Harvest' section is set out in chronological order.  From 14th Aug:

The officers [DI Cook, Miller and DS Jones] then returned to Witham, but later that evening Miller and Jones called at Oak Farm, sharing a bottle of whisky with Peter as they listened to Ann's concerns, seeming 'interested at last'.  (Page 239).

But in her COLP interview AE states:

"I have been asked why in my statement dated 14.8.85 is there no mention of the finding of the silencer. The only reason I can think of is that DS Jones was not convinced of our observations hence it was a nothing statement. I don't even think we spoke about it".

And yet earlier in the day the above named officers went to WHF to take paint samples from the Aga surround.

[Caroline]

Just checked CAL's book to see if she makes any ref to AE's WS of 14th Aug but I can't find any.

The 'Harvest' section is set out in chronological order.  From 14th Aug:

The officers [DI Cook, Miller and DS Jones] then returned to Witham, but later that evening Miller and Jones called at Oak Farm, sharing a bottle of whisky with Peter as they listened to Ann's concerns, seeming 'interested at last'.  (Page 239).

But in her COLP interview AE states:

"I have been asked why in my statement dated 14.8.85 is there no mention of the finding of the silencer. The only reason I can think of is that DS Jones was not convinced of our observations hence it was a nothing statement. I don't even think we spoke about it".

And yet earlier in the day the above named officers went to WHF to take paint samples from the Aga surround.

The statement on 14th talks about what she knew of Sheila's illness (depression) and the last time she saw June and Neville.

[Holly Goodhead]

The statement on 14th talks about what she knew of Sheila's illness (depression) and the last time she saw June and Neville.

Are you able to post a copy? 

[scipio_usmc]

You've lost me?! 

I hadn't realised until recently AE made a WS on 14th Aug 1985.  Do you have a copy you can post?

COLP asked AE in 1991 why she didn't mention the finding of the silencer in her WS of 14th Aug '85  I have thought in the past it didn't seem right that DS Jones didn't take WS's when he collected the silencer from all those who were present when it was found on 10th Aug and subsequently handled it until he collected it on 12th Aug.  When did DB, RB, PE, BW and BC first provide WS's and did they contain info about the silencer?

Why would any member of EP tell AE what to include and exclude in a WS let alone tell her to exclude the silencer which just happened to end up being the most incriminating aspect of the prosecution case against JB.  Why would AE exclude the silencer when according to her WS's taken in Sept she immediately grasped the significance of it:

"We discussed the implication of how this silencer could be in the gun cupboard with blood and paint on it. Obviously if it was being alleged that somebody had had a brainstorm and shot dead four people they would surely not have stopped to remove the silencer, put it back in the gun cupboard, go back upstairs and shoot herself dead".

Anyone reading AE's WS's will surely appreciate she has a mind for the minutiae whereby she includes a lot of trivial, petty and irrelevant detail.  Why on earth would she omit the silencer?!

You surely don't need to be police trained to realise that if you get a call saying words to the effect 'we've found the silencer to the murder weapon, it has blood and paint on it' that an officer would arrive with an exhibit bag and appropriate stationery for taking witness statements.  DS Jones wasn't pushed for time since he was happy to wile away the evening drinking whisky with PE as per AE's COLP WS.  DS Jones went empty handed: no exhibit bag and/or stationery for WS's or if he did he didn't bother taking any and he took the silencer away in a kitchen roll tube supplied by the Eatons I assume.

Jeremy made allegations.

COLP could not just decide to answer the questions and allegations themselves. They were expected to get the people to answer on the record so had to ask them even though they well knew the answer.  Police only asked her to write things about Sheila: