ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.

[barrier]

Based on the fact that the GNR know next to nothing about Luz, and more, I can say with 100% certainty that the GNR missed important points.

Based on the fact that the PJ know nothing about Luz, and more, I can say with 100% certainty that the PJ missed important points.

Based on the fact that OG clearly knows nothing significant about Luz, and more, I can say with 100% certainty that OG has missed important points.

Have a stab at this question.  What is important about the route from apartment 5A to the Millennium?

It actually has multiple significances, but can you give me just one?

However, if you do the trip on the ground, those multiple significances become apparent very readily.

I've never gone over it with a fine tooth comb,but what is the significance of it,does it help OG in any way,or does it cast doubt on an abduction theory.Or is it of importance because of the distance involved and may suggest a reason for the Tapas.

[G-Unit]

I can see nothing of importance along that route?

[ShiningInLuz]

I can see nothing of importance along that route?

Try walking that route with one child aged nearly four plustwo children aged 2 years and 3 months, without a baby buggy.

Then read the statement of Vitor Santos.  He knew what was important about that route.

[misty]

Try walking that route with one child aged nearly four plustwo children aged 2 years and 3 months, without a baby buggy.

Then read the statement of Vitor Santos.  He knew what was important about that route.

Did Vitor Santos know that the McCanns wouldn't hire a buggy or use a taxi to get to the Millennium so they could eat as a family group?

[ShiningInLuz]

Did Vitor Santos know that the McCanns wouldn't hire a buggy or use a taxi to get to the Millennium so they could eat as a family group?

Hire a buggy = no.  I cannot think for the life of me where you can hire a double buggy in Luz.  Obviously, the McCanns might have brought their own double buggy, and if they had, possibly Madeleine would have been safe today.  But probably not.

Taxi?  Jesus Gabriel (football) took a taxi to go 600m from his hairdresser to his home in Manchester because it was raining. He got slated for it.  Mind you, on his salary a taxi for a 600m journey was small change.

The McCanns did the 650m journey a total of 4 times over the Sat evening/Sun morning.  Then switched, as Sr Santos attested made sense.  Vitor knew how Luz worked and how holiday makers in the OC worked.

[Mr Gray]

Hire a buggy = no.  I cannot think for the life of me where you can hire a double buggy in Luz.  Obviously, the McCanns might have brought their own double buggy, and if they had, possibly Madeleine would have been safe today.  But probably not.

Taxi?  Jesus Gabriel (football) took a taxi to go 600m from his hairdresser to his home in Manchester because it was raining. He got slated for it.  Mind you, on his salary a taxi for a 600m journey was small change.

The McCanns did the 650m journey a total of 4 times over the Sat evening/Sun morning.  Then switched, as Sr Santos attested made sense.  Vitor knew how Luz worked and how holiday makers in the OC worked.

and how is this in an way relevant

[G-Unit]

Hire a buggy = no.  I cannot think for the life of me where you can hire a double buggy in Luz.  Obviously, the McCanns might have brought their own double buggy, and if they had, possibly Madeleine would have been safe today.  But probably not.

Taxi?  Jesus Gabriel (football) took a taxi to go 600m from his hairdresser to his home in Manchester because it was raining. He got slated for it.  Mind you, on his salary a taxi for a 600m journey was small change.

The McCanns did the 650m journey a total of 4 times over the Sat evening/Sun morning.  Then switched, as Sr Santos attested made sense.  Vitor knew how Luz worked and how holiday makers in the OC worked.

Interestingly he said

For dinner the guests could choose between two options, the Tapas and the Millenium and although the meals are identical, the clients choose the restaurant according to its proximity to their accommodation.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR-SANTOS.htm

Dianne Webster said;

4078    ”Was there anywhere else that you could have gone nearby?”
 
 Reply    ”Well only the Millennium restaurant which was quite a trek away and to be honest I wasn’t impressed with the food anyway there......It was self service and I don’t really err didn’t think much to the food.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

So although Santos says the meals were identical Dianne seems to think they differed.

He also says clients tended to dine near to their apartments, but it wasn't as simple as that, was it? To dine at the Tapas a booking was required and people were turned away due to lack of availability.

Of course the group requested that they be housed together;

 in this case in concrete a request was made that the four families should be accommodated close to each other and a ground floor apartment was requested enabling easy access for the families with small children.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR-SANTOS.htm

Despite their small children the Paynes were housed upstairs?

The group also informed Mark Warner why they wanted to be housed close to each other. That meant placing them close enough to one of the restaurants or their planned 'listening' wouldn't have worked.

The McCanns were able to get a double buggy/2 buggies from MW to take the twins to the beach.

I still don't see anything significant about the route to the Millenium.

[ShiningInLuz]

and how is this in an way relevant

It was predictable that those in block 5 would eat in the Tapas. Sr Santos said it made sense.  Because it made sense.

[Mr Gray]

It was predictable that those in block 5 would eat in the Tapas. Sr Santos said it made sense.  Because it made sense.

I was already aware they ate at the tapas because it was much closer than the millennium...I don't see how this has any significance

[ShiningInLuz]

Interestingly he said

For dinner the guests could choose between two options, the Tapas and the Millenium and although the meals are identical, the clients choose the restaurant according to its proximity to their accommodation.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR-SANTOS.htm

Dianne Webster said;

4078    ”Was there anywhere else that you could have gone nearby?”
 
 Reply    ”Well only the Millennium restaurant which was quite a trek away and to be honest I wasn’t impressed with the food anyway there......It was self service and I don’t really err didn’t think much to the food.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

So although Santos says the meals were identical Dianne seems to think they differed.

He also says clients tended to dine near to their apartments, but it wasn't as simple as that, was it? To dine at the Tapas a booking was required and people were turned away due to lack of availability.

Of course the group requested that they be housed together;

 in this case in concrete a request was made that the four families should be accommodated close to each other and a ground floor apartment was requested enabling easy access for the families with small children.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR-SANTOS.htm

Despite their small children the Paynes were housed upstairs?

The group also informed Mark Warner why they wanted to be housed close to each other. That meant placing them close enough to one of the restaurants or their planned 'listening' wouldn't have worked.

The McCanns were able to get a double buggy/2 buggies from MW to take the twins to the beach.

I still don't see anything significant about the route to the Millenium.

You are missing the interesting bits in Sr Santos statements about the length of walk involved.

You have hit the interesting bit by Sr Santos re accommodation that is not in the booking record, and does not appear to be explained anywhere else.

The use of a double buggy or two buggies for the trip to the beach is not relevant.  Unless you think the McCanns could have said to MW upon turning up 'we didn't bring a double buggy for the twins, give us one for 7 days'.  Or the beach trip is relevant, in that the McCanns had worked out from experience that such an expedition would go better with buggy capacity.

The trip to the Millennium is significant.  Until you visit Luz, and do that walk, role-playing having one 4 year old child and two toddlers aged 2 years and 3 months between two of you, you simply will not get it.

The route taken to the Millennium also happens to be important in the Berry/Balu story

And assuming traffic flow was normal that night, the GNR first responders should have taken that route to get from Valverde into Luz to the Mirage then to go past apartment 5A on Martins and so to get to the OC reception.

But to clarify, without a buggy, purely logistically, how did the McCanns get 3 small children to the Millennium and back.  None of the other 3 sets of parents was facing a ratio of more kids than parents.

[Mr Gray]

You are missing the interesting bits in Sr Santos statements about the length of walk involved.

You have hit the interesting bit by Sr Santos re accommodation that is not in the booking record, and does not appear to be explained anywhere else.

The use of a double buggy or two buggies for the trip to the beach is not relevant.  Unless you think the McCanns could have said to MW upon turning up 'we didn't bring a double buggy for the twins, give us one for 7 days'.  Or the beach trip is relevant, in that the McCanns had worked out from experience that such an expedition would go better with buggy capacity.

The trip to the Millennium is significant.  Until you visit Luz, and do that walk, role-playing having one 4 year old child and two toddlers aged 2 years and 3 months between two of you, you simply will not get it.

The route taken to the Millennium also happens to be important in the Berry/Balu story

And assuming traffic flow was normal that night, the GNR first responders should have taken that route to get from Valverde into Luz to the Mirage then to go past apartment 5A on Martins and so to get to the OC reception.

But to clarify, without a buggy, purely logistically, how did the McCanns get 3 small children to the Millennium and back.  None of the other 3 sets of parents was facing a ratio of more kids than parents.

with difficulty...Maddie walked...in what way is this relevant to maddies disapperance

[ShiningInLuz]

with difficulty...Maddie walked...in what waybis this relevance to maddies disapperance

Maddie walked.

I assume from this you mean the twins didn't.  How did the twins get there or back?

Average adult walking speed is 4 miles per hour.  Roughly, that is 100m per minute.  5A to the Millennium was 650m.  Therefore for an unencumbered adult 6mins 30secs.

But the McCanns were not unemcumbered.  They had the twins with no buggies.  And if Madeleine walked, at age 4 what speed would she have walked at?

I think a 650m walk on my own is a doddle.  When I go on our adventures with my 6 year-old grandson, I reckon we average about 2mph.

Unfortunately, I have reached the stage of life where carrying a child a little over two would be a daunting challenge, but the McCanns were much younger then than I am now.

That walk for many reasons is not pleasant or easy with 3 such young children.

It was highly likely that the McCanns would resort to Baptista for breakfast and lunch, and Tapas for dinner.  It made sense.

[misty]

How many sets of 4 apartments, both in close proximity to each other & near either restaurant did MW manage at OC?

[Mr Gray]

Maddie walked.

I assume from this you mean the twins didn't.  How did the twins get there or back?

Average adult walking speed is 4 miles per hour.  Roughly, that is 100m per minute.  5A to the Millennium was 650m.  Therefore for an unencumbered adult 6mins 30secs.

But the McCanns were not unemcumbered.  They had the twins with no buggies.  And if Madeleine walked, at age 4 what speed would she have walked at?

I think a 650m walk on my own is a doddle.  When I go on our adventures with my 6 year-old grandson, I reckon we average about 2mph.

Unfortunately, I have reached the stage of life where carrying a child a little over two would be a daunting challenge, but the McCanns were much younger then than I am now.

That walk for many reasons is not pleasant or easy with 3 such young children.

It was highly likely that the McCanns would resort to Baptista for breakfast and lunch, and Tapas for dinner.  It made sense.

we already know that the mccanns went to the tapas for dinner and went to the millennium only once
again this is not ground breaking and of no relevance

[ShiningInLuz]

How many sets of 4 apartments, both in close proximity to each other & near either restaurant did MW manage at OC?

Sorry, I don't know.  I would need to trawl through Textusa's data on properties/bookings to answer that.

AFAIK, nothing was communicated to the OC about the desire to be close to a restaurant.  The key components were 'together' as per the MW booking record, and 'ground floor' as per Vitor Santos' statement.  Please correct me if I am wrong on this because it is important.