Author Topic: ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.  (Read 88395 times)

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Offline jassi

Re: ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.
« Reply #285 on: October 07, 2016, 04:13:56 PM »
I can bet my last Euro that they didn't, and I care not a jot about any information they received that I am not privy to.

The info that made the dig a waste of time is documented in the PJ Files, but sitting in their secure bunker in Belgravia, they didn't know how to interpret it.

Why you constantly tout OG as a fine effort, in the absence of evidence, perplexes me.

There is no evidence whatsoever that OG first investigated the T9 before coming up with a remit that rules them off limits.  Would, should, ought to, surely - none of these count as evidence.

There is no evidence whatsoever that, the dig apart, OG has ever visited the incident scene.  Would, should, could, might have - none of these count as evidence.

There is no evidence that OG got all the substantive details correct in Crimewatch 2013.  Redwood still had Smithman going the wrong way.  Quite possibly because he has never visited the Smith sighting.  And I am aware that Redwood has allegedly visited Martin Smith on a further 2 occasions, so he should have information to which I am not privy.

There is no evidence that OG got the June 2014 dig right.  Indeed, quite the opposite.  They learned it is hard to dig a hole in Luz.  Other than that, it is reported in the media that they got nothing.

There is no evidence that they have progressed the 4 arguidos or the 10 witnesses interviewed in 2014.

The decision by Nicola Wall to radically down-size the operation suggests that most enquiries have led nowhere.  As to whether the remaining officers make some sort of progress, I am happy to wait and see.

 8((()*/
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline John

Re: ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.
« Reply #286 on: October 07, 2016, 04:45:35 PM »
SY undertook minor digs and explored underground voids around Luz a few years back for one reason only and that was to find Madeleine's remains or her clothing.  It was too little too late however.  Luz is peppered with underground tunnels going back to the time of the Romans, to find anything down there would require a massive undertaking imo.

“The archaeologist involved with these tunnels was arrested as an abuser in the Casa Pia case but later released [this was a notorious child abuse scandal centring on orphanages in Lisbon].

“Does this not send alarm bells ringing? Something not right in Portugal. Why are the PJ not searching these tunnels and the church?”



http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/98630/Maddie-Did-she-vanish-in-maze-of-tunnels
« Last Edit: October 07, 2016, 07:05:17 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.
« Reply #287 on: October 07, 2016, 05:12:46 PM »
SY undertook minor digs and explored underground voids around Luz a few years back for one reason only and that was to find Madeleine's remains or her clothing.  It was too little too late however.  Luz is peppered with underground tunnels going back to the time of the Romans, to find anything down there would require a massive undertaking imo.

“The archaeologist involved with these tunnels was arrested as an abuser in the Casa Pia case but later released [this was a notorious child abuse scandal centring on orphanages in Lisbon].

“Does this not send alarm bells ringing? Something not right in Portugal. Why are the PJ not searching these tunnels and the church?”



http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/98630/Maddie-Did-she-vanish-in-maze-of-tunnels

How do we know the PJ didn't search the tunnels etc ?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.
« Reply #288 on: October 07, 2016, 05:24:06 PM »
The Roman ruins do not appear to have been much of a secret known by only the initiated.

"The Roman ruins are dated 3rd – 5th Century and were discovered and partially excavated by Estacio da Viega in the 19th Century".

http://www.algarveluzbay.com/luz/the-roman-ruins/
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.
« Reply #289 on: October 07, 2016, 06:13:23 PM »
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROMAN_TUNNELS.htm

The tunnels tale and what the PJ did about it.

Note the Express has simply lifted an email from the file, and written a sensationalist story around it.
What's up, old man?

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.
« Reply #290 on: October 07, 2016, 06:18:45 PM »
Another astoundingly arrogant post, summed up beautifully in the sentence I have highlighted.  Cares not a jot about information that he or she isn't privy to, but very happy to denigrate OP Grange based solely on incomplete mostly third party information garnered largely from the tabs. 

Sin-bin me another 10% while you're at it... ?>)()<
How many times do I have to repeat the reasons why the dig on the mound was nonsense?  Of course, if you continue to ignore the reasons why it was nonsense, you can continue to claim it made sense.  There is nothing like ignoring evidence and telling everyone they should have faith in OG.
What's up, old man?

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.
« Reply #291 on: October 07, 2016, 06:20:47 PM »
How many times do I have to repeat the reasons why the dig on the mound was nonsense?  Of course, if you continue to ignore the reasons why it was nonsense, you can continue to claim it made sense.  There is nothing like ignoring evidence and telling everyone they should have faith in OG.
You have no idea why they dug on the mound do you?  None whatsoever, so stop pretending you know everything, it's embarrassing.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.
« Reply #292 on: October 07, 2016, 06:33:32 PM »
You have no idea why they dug on the mound do you?  None whatsoever, so stop pretending you know everything, it's embarrassing.
You have no idea why the dig did not make sense, but I do.

"Stop pretending I know everything"?  When did I ever say I know everything?  Why do you repeatedly make global speculations like this?  I said the information is contained in the PJ Files, if you understand how Luz works.

You don't.  OG didn't.  Therefore I know certain things that neither you nor OG know.

Had I been up to speed on the PJ Files at the time of the dig, I would have intervened to point out this information to those doing the digging.  But I wasn't, so I didn't, the dig was carried out, and OG came up empty handed.
What's up, old man?

Offline Brietta

Re: ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.
« Reply #293 on: October 07, 2016, 06:56:47 PM »
You have no idea why the dig did not make sense, but I do.

"Stop pretending I know everything"?  When did I ever say I know everything?  Why do you repeatedly make global speculations like this?  I said the information is contained in the PJ Files, if you understand how Luz works.

You don't.  OG didn't.  Therefore I know certain things that neither you nor OG know.

Had I been up to speed on the PJ Files at the time of the dig, I would have intervened to point out this information to those doing the digging.  But I wasn't, so I didn't, the dig was carried out, and OG came up empty handed.

Speaking for myself, I am relieved that the search of the mound and other areas 'came up empty handed'.

However, Scotland Yard certainly managed to find voids worthy of inspection and considering the difficulties involved managed to do it in jig time.

Why is it you think a missing child can be found if no-one actually looks for her?

A local source said: ‘The discovery of the hole came as a surprise. Police are meant to be here for five to seven days but this may delay things.’

Elsewhere on the site, sewers are being analysed by British detectives using micro cameras and fibreoptic cables.

The complex system of unused piping was installed as part of failed plans to build a hotel on the land before Madeleine disappeared.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2648396/Police-hunting-Madeleine-McCann-resort-disappeared-search-sewers.html#ixzz4MQG3wm53
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline John

Re: ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.
« Reply #294 on: October 07, 2016, 07:16:54 PM »
Speaking for myself, I am relieved that the search of the mound and other areas 'came up empty handed'.

However, Scotland Yard certainly managed to find voids worthy of inspection and considering the difficulties involved managed to do it in jig time.

Why is it you think a missing child can be found if no-one actually looks for her?

A local source said: ‘The discovery of the hole came as a surprise. Police are meant to be here for five to seven days but this may delay things.’

Elsewhere on the site, sewers are being analysed by British detectives using micro cameras and fibreoptic cables.

The complex system of unused piping was installed as part of failed plans to build a hotel on the land before Madeleine disappeared.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2648396/Police-hunting-Madeleine-McCann-resort-disappeared-search-sewers.html#ixzz4MQG3wm53

This activity all related to Smithman of course after Redwood had his eureka moment.  SY's thinking was that Smithman went down the steps towards the beach and walked west along the coastal path towards the undeveloped ground where the search took place.  We know of course that this area was swept in the original searches when scents would have been fresh.  A last ditch effort which came to nothing.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.
« Reply #295 on: October 07, 2016, 07:26:42 PM »
You have no idea why the dig did not make sense, but I do.

"Stop pretending I know everything"?  When did I ever say I know everything?  Why do you repeatedly make global speculations like this?  I said the information is contained in the PJ Files, if you understand how Luz works.

You don't.  OG didn't.  Therefore I know certain things that neither you nor OG know.

Had I been up to speed on the PJ Files at the time of the dig, I would have intervened to point out this information to those doing the digging.  But I wasn't, so I didn't, the dig was carried out, and OG came up empty handed.

Do you believe that Op Grange should not have followed up on intelligence suggesting that certain areas (eg the mound) might contain evidence of interest and should be investigated further without running it past you first then, seeing as how you know better than them? 

Where in the files was the mound ruled out as a place to hide a small body or related evidence?  Can we have the cite please? 

« Last Edit: October 07, 2016, 07:30:21 PM by Alfie »

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.
« Reply #296 on: October 07, 2016, 07:32:04 PM »
If digging the mound was patent nonsense as claimed by SIL, why did the Portuguese sanction the searches?

Offline John

Re: ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.
« Reply #297 on: October 07, 2016, 07:33:07 PM »
Do you believe that Op Grange should not have followed up on intelligence suggesting that certain areas (eg the mound) might contain evidence of interest and should be investigated further without running it past you first then, seeing as how you know better than them? 

Where in the files was the mound ruled out as a place to hide a small body or related evidence?  Can we have the cite please?

I think the search carried out by Redwood was nothing more than a last throw of the dice ahead of his retirement. I don't believe it was based on anything more than a hunch.

The Portuguese went along with it knowing full well that the area had been cleared previously and that SY were unlikely to find anything.  In the end that was in fact what happened, the PJ must have been wetting themselves in glee imho.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2016, 07:36:01 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.
« Reply #298 on: October 07, 2016, 07:35:11 PM »
I can bet my last Euro that they didn't, and I care not a jot about any information they received that I am not privy to.

The info that made the dig a waste of time is documented in the PJ Files, but sitting in their secure bunker in Belgravia, they didn't know how to interpret it.

Why you constantly tout OG as a fine effort, in the absence of evidence, perplexes me.

There is no evidence whatsoever that OG first investigated the T9 before coming up with a remit that rules them off limits.  Would, should, ought to, surely - none of these count as evidence.

There is no evidence whatsoever that, the dig apart, OG has ever visited the incident scene.  Would, should, could, might have - none of these count as evidence.

There is no evidence that OG got all the substantive details correct in Crimewatch 2013.  Redwood still had Smithman going the wrong way.  Quite possibly because he has never visited the Smith sighting.  And I am aware that Redwood has allegedly visited Martin Smith on a further 2 occasions, so he should have information to which I am not privy.

There is no evidence that OG got the June 2014 dig right.  Indeed, quite the opposite.  They learned it is hard to dig a hole in Luz.  Other than that, it is reported in the media that they got nothing.

There is no evidence that they have progressed the 4 arguidos or the 10 witnesses interviewed in 2014.

The decision by Nicola Wall to radically down-size the operation suggests that most enquiries have led nowhere.  As to whether the remaining officers make some sort of progress, I am happy to wait and see.
This post of mine has been deleted but I am reposting it is not goading, it is my opinion, and all opinions are valid on this forum.

Another astoundingly arrogant post, summed up beautifully in the sentence I have highlighted.  Cares not a jot about information that he or she isn't privy to, but very happy to denigrate OP Grange based solely on incomplete mostly third party information garnered largely from the tabs.

(Note: This post of mine has been deleted but I am reposting it is not goading, it is my opinion, and all opinions are valid on this forum)

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.
« Reply #299 on: October 07, 2016, 07:51:30 PM »
Where did you say you know everything?  Well how about the bit above I have bolded?  Where in the files does it say that the mound does not contain anything of relevance to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann?  You claim not to give a fig for any information that OG may have received that led them to search the  mound - why not?  Someone comes forward to the police and claims there is something significant to be discovered on the mound and your reply would be "don't bother - it's says in the files the mound is not of interest to us"?  Really?  So, your advice to the Met would be "don't follow up leads, don't investigate places in PdL or rule things out unless I've approved them as worth investigating, because I know more than you about the subject", is that right ?
The bit you have bolded says "Therefore I know certain things that neither you nor OG know."  You have done another of your sweeping generalisations to turn "certain things" into "everything".

It would be interesting to know if you actually know you are doing this, at the time you are doing it.  But I guess I'm not going to find out.

You are either speculating about someone coming forward or proposing a hypothetical situation.  We have not been given the 'intelligence' that led to the dig.  So this an instance where you don't know the prompt, I don't know the prompt, but OG does have that information.

However, had I known in advance of the plan to dig the mound, (and knowing what I know now from the PJ Files), I would have supplied OG with the names of 4 people, their relevant statements, hopefully their contact details, and suggest that these 4 should be asked a simple question.  "Can you confirm that you were up that hill on the night of 3rd/4th May 2007?"

I would further provide them with details of the traffic system in Luz, to demonstrate why the dig area was an unlikely site.

I would further provide them with details of premises nearby that were likely to be open late on 3 May 2007, explain the likely traffic this would have generated, hopefully provided contact details, and suggested they might like to make enquiries.

I happen to know the guy who lived in 2007 at the north end of the dig.  For him, I had a contact number.  He appeared under a thin disguise in UK media at the time of the dig.  He was quoted as saying the mound was searched extensively in the days after Madeleine disappeared.  What 'extensively' means, I do not know.  I lost interest in the mound for while, given that OG found nothing of interest, before I realised it had other significance.

Of course, this is hypothetical as OG is not going run its plans past me in advance.

It prefers to load up the troops, get them shiny new digging implements, seal off central Luz, get the PJ and GNR to participate, bring in the dogs, throw in a helicopter chase and put on a real show for the media.

You are ignorant of Luz, just as OG was.  I have a decent knowledge of the incident scene.

Hence I have certain advantages over both you and OG.

Before you write any response, just think to yourself of one simple question.  If the challenge was "who can best build local knowledge into a crime occurring in your neck of the woods?, and I took on every single member of this forum, I have no doubt I would lose every single time the issue was their neck of the woods.  That's their turf.  On your turf, you would win.

Luz is my turf, which is why I would 'beat' any and all members of this forum, if the debate is about my turf.
What's up, old man?