Did OC reception let Madeleine down?

[ShiningInLuz]

If there was anything in the records that supported an earlier call to the GNR I would not have any issue with it.  The issue is that the records are consistent with the GNR being called first at 10.41pm, then a short time later, then, as has been pointed out, Silvia Batista calling around the time the GNR had arrived at OC Reception.

That particular piece of the time line is critical for a number of reasons, and it one of the few areas where we have nailed-on certainty.

Whether you and I sit on the same side of the fence or not, you appear to be someone who is keen on getting the best understanding of what went on that night, a view that I share.

I have no problem with the 'another girl was involved in an earlier incident' theorem.  With the exception that it involves a massive conspiracy (of which I am not fond), there is nothing verifiable to support it (ouch) and there is a considerable amount of evidence to refute it.

[John]

There is nothing to support a second/earlier incident so can we please not refer to this any further Rob. 
All references to this have been removed.

Can we get back on topic please. TY

[Robittybob1]

There is nothing to support a second/earlier incident so can we please not refer to this any further Rob. 
All references to this have been removed.

Can we get back on topic please. TY

That is exactly what I have been trying to show.  It is not completely without evidence.

[Robittybob1]

Did OC reception let Madeleine down?  Yes or No?   Yes if there was no previous incident to get confused with.  No if there was a previous incident in which the police had been called but they had not yet arrived.
There seems to have been only one missing child procedure event involving Amy Tierney.  Very difficult all around.

[Brietta]

Did OC reception let Madeleine down?  Yes or No?   Yes if there was no previous incident to get confused with.  No if there was a previous incident in which the police had been called but they had not yet arrived.
There seems to have been only one missing child procedure event involving Amy Tierney.  Very difficult all around.

Only one child disappeared that night. There is enough confusion surrounding what happened to Madeleine without adding to it.  Confusion caused, not so much by the OC reception immediately her disappearance was discovered but by subsequent events.

[Robittybob1]

Only one child disappeared that night. There is enough confusion surrounding what happened to Madeleine without adding to it.  Confusion caused, not so much by the OC reception immediately her disappearance was discovered but by subsequent events.

/8/who wrote "CHAPTER 4 – ‘THE WOOLFALL PUZZLE’" the Truth for Madeleine? http://truthformadeleine.com/2008/12/chapter-4-the-woolfall-puzzle/  Was it Tony Bennett?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4538.msg160928#msg160928 John says OC had a duty of care. Did they meet it?  "Mark Warner Holidays and Ocean Club Resorts had a duty of care towards their guests."

[Robittybob1]

Here is excerpt from Kate's book Test from http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.nz/2013/10/the-night-madeleine-mccann-was-kidnapped.html

Kate McCann, in her book, describes what happened around 10pm:

David said 'Let's just check the apartment.'

I'd done that....I ran out into the car park, flying from end to end, yelling desperately 'Madeleine, Madeleine!'



It was so cold and windy....Fear was shearing through my body...

Gerry, David, Russell and Matt split into pairs and dashed around the adjacent apartment blocks.

Just after ten past ten, Gerry asked Matt to run to the Ocean Club's twenty-four-hour reception to get the staff to call the police...


Robert Murat was living in a villa a little beyond the point at which the 21.15 sighting was made.

 By this time the Mark Warner people had rounded up as many of their colleagues as they could, off-duty staff as well as those just finishing their shifts, rousing some of them from their beds.

Close to ten-thirty they activated the company's 'missing child search protocol' and mobilised people to comb the complex and its environs.

At 10.35pm the police had still not arrived, so Gerry asked Matt if he would go back to the twenty-four-hour reception and find out what was happening.

 John Hill, the Mark Warner resort manager came up to the veranda behind our apartment.

I remember screaming at him to do something.

 'Where are the police?' I yelled at him.

He tried to reassure me they'd be with us soon, but I could tell that he, too was finding the waiting difficult. Minutes felt like hours...



Gerry had been over to the Mini Club above the twenty-four-hour reception thinking that if Madeleine had been left somewhere, she might make her way back to any place that was familiar to her...

Gerry meanwhile was running from pillar to post, urging me to remain in the apartment with the twins so that I'd be on hand if Madeleine was found and brought back there...

On my insistence, Gerry and Dave went out again to look for some sign of Madeleine. They went up and down the beach in the dark, running, shouting...

I walked briskly up and down Rua dr Agostinho da Silva, sometimes breaking into a jog, clinging to the hope that I'd spot something in the dark...

I couldn't have allowed myself to entertain sleep.

 I felt Madeleine's terror, and I had to keep vigil with her.

I needed to be doing something, but I didn't know where to put myself.

I wandered restlessly in and out of the room and onto the balcony. At long last, dawn broke...



As soon as it was light, Gerry and I returned to our search.

We went up and down roads we'd never seen before having barely left the Ocean Club complex all week.

We jumped over walls and ... through undergrowth.

We looked in ditches and holes.

All was quiet apart from the sound of barking dogs, which added to the eeriness of the atmosphere.

I remember opening a big dumpster-type bin and saying to myself please God don't let her be in here.

The most striking and horrific thing about it all was that we were completely alone. Nobody else, it seemed was out looking for Madeleine. Just us, her parents.

We must have been out for at least an hour before returning to David and Fiona's apartment...

I haven't checked it for accuracy but it tells of John Hill's arrival at the apartment. Around 10:35 according to Kate  He is expecting the Police to arrive  " 'Where are the police?' I yelled at him.

He tried to reassure me they'd be with us soon, ..." but you all tell me they were not called till 10:42.  Come on what is going on with the OC reception?
How could he say they will be with them soon if they had not yet been called?

[Robittybob1]

Here is an even more enlightened overview of the responsibilities at OC in 2007 by the Algarve Resident.
"Resort helps family"  http://portugalresident.com/resort-helps-family

Mark Warner Holidays manages Ocean Club, which was established in 1982, but three British residents, David Symington, John Garveigh and Robin Crosland, founded the resort and remain the owning partners.David Symington came to the Algarve in the 1960s. The Symington family has been in the Port wine shipping business in Porto for generations.John Garveigh also came to the Algarve with his family in the 1960s, bringing considerable experience of the property market.Robin Crosland is a British architect and, after spending many years in Africa designing luxury hotels and housing projects, he came to Portugal in the early 1980s. He has been mainly responsible for the architectural design of the Ocean Club. He is the managing director of the whole resort. All three partners still play an active part in the running of the resort.The Resident attempted to contact Robin Crosland for a comment but he was unavailable in meetings concerning Madeleine’s disappearance.

[G-Unit]

Here is excerpt from Kate's book Test from http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.nz/2013/10/the-night-madeleine-mccann-was-kidnapped.html
I haven't checked it for accuracy but it tells of John Hill's arrival at the apartment. Around 10:35 according to Kate  He is expecting the Police to arrive  " 'Where are the police?' I yelled at him.

He tried to reassure me they'd be with us soon, ..." but you all tell me they were not called till 10:42.  Come on what is going on with the OC reception?
How could he say they will be with them soon if they had not yet been called?

John Hill arrived on the balcony after the police were called; he arrived at the resort at 22. 33, then went to the 24 hour reception to see if the authorities had been notified. They hadn't, as we know, hence the 22.41 call at Hill's request. Then the trip to 5A;

The deponent went to the main reception to see if the authorities had been alerted, and fifteen minutes later went to the apartment being used by the McCanns
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_HILL.htm

22.50 he arrived at 5A, not 22.35; that was when Matt was allegedly sent to Reception for the second time, although no-one else mentions that.

[sadie]

Great minds think alike, Rob.   Last night I too wrote about the Management of OC, but I have waited until this morning to post it.  It adds fairly substantially to your Portugal Residence news article so I will leave it

 

Did OC reception let Madeleine down?  Yes or No?   Yes if there was no previous incident to get confused with.  No if there was a previous incident in which the police had been called but they had not yet arrived.
There seems to have been only one missing child procedure event involving Amy Tierney.  Very difficult all around.

Definitely Yes
... unless Company Rules forbade calling the Police until senior staff had been notified and agreed.   Maybe because of bad publicity for OC if the Police were seen there?
 
However having seen the size of John Hills house on GE, I wouldn't have thought that he was senior enough.  Maybe that is why Robin Crossland was brought in ?
 
 
'Blackwatch', the brilliantly informed reporter on "The Sargeants Inn blog" stated that there were three owners of OC.  These were David Symington,  Robin Crossland and John Garveigh.  Robin was the architect who designed the place, John was the master builder .... dunno what David did, maybe supplied 'the ready' cos he was from  the Symington Port dynasty [ Graham, Warre, Dow, Cockburns + several other ports] up in Porto. 
On 'Brians Dreams', Davids nephew Rupert, the family whizz kid and a great wit, [Oxford Mathematics], was ' also said to own part of OC ... any of you remember 'Brians Dreams'? 
 
Later Robin managed the whole complex .... and he was interviewed by the PJ.  Did he have to give permission to call the PJ in ?
 
According to reports at the time, David Symington and John Garveigh buzzed off cruising the Caribbean for several months ... nobody able to reach them ... and there was talk that neither of them were ever interviewed by the PJ
 
Wonder if Bell Pottinger recommended that?

[stephen25000]

Great minds think alike, Rob.   Last night I too wrote about the Management of OC, but I have waited until this morning to post it.  It adds fairly substantially to your Portugal Residence news article so I will leave it

 
Definitely Yes
... unless Company Rules forbade calling the Police until senior staff had been notified and agreed.   Maybe because of bad publicity for OC if the Police were seen there?
 
However having seen the size of John Hills house on GE, I wouldn't have thought that he was senior enough.  Maybe that is why Robin Crossland was brought in ?
 
 
'Blackwatch', the brilliantly informed reporter on "The Sargeants Inn blog" stated that there were three owners of OC.  These were David Symington,  Robin Crossland and John Garveigh.  Robin was the architect who designed the place, John was the master builder .... dunno what David did, maybe supplied 'the ready' cos he was from  the Symington Port dynasty [ Graham, Warre, Dow, Cockburns + several other ports] up in Porto. 
On 'Brians Dreams', Davids nephew Rupert, the family whizz kid and a great wit, [Oxford Mathematics], was ' also said to own part of OC ... any of you remember 'Brians Dreams'? 
 
Later Robin managed the whole complex .... and he was interviewed by the PJ.  Did he have to give permission to call the PJ in ?
 
According to reports at the time, David Symington and John Garveigh buzzed off cruising the Caribbean for several months ... nobody able to reach them ... and there was talk that neither of them were ever interviewed by the PJ
 
Wonder if Bell Pottinger recommended that?

Stop blaming others for the mistakes of the Mccanns.

They are responsible for instigating this case, and so far, no one else has been found accountable for what happened.

Too often it seems, it is easier to blame others for your own mistakes.

[jassi]

“Great minds think alike.”

This is actually a shortened version of a longer quote, of which there are two versions.
For the full quote, you want to say, “Great minds think alike, small minds rarely differ” or “Great minds think alike, and fools seldom differ.”

[sadie]

“Great minds think alike.”

This is actually a shortened version of a longer quote, of which there are two versions.
For the full quote, you want to say, “Great minds think alike, small minds rarely differ” or “Great minds think alike, and fools seldom differ.”

Nothing to say about the post then ?  Just a diversionary response from you.

[G-Unit]

Here is an even more enlightened overview of the responsibilities at OC in 2007 by the Algarve Resident.
"Resort helps family"  http://portugalresident.com/resort-helps-family

The Resident, of course, wasn't quite up to date. The three partners were no longer involved in running the resort because it had been sold. Only Crossland was still involved, employed as Manager of the Ocean Club by Green Trust SA for two years in order to pass on his knowledge. He was in charge of the Ocean Club.

John Hill was in charge of the Mark Warner operation. Mark Warner, like Thomas Cook and Jonathan Markson, had a contract with the Ocean Club to use the facilities.

So although both Green Trust and Mark Warner had the same owners, they had different employees, different areas of responsibility and different management structures. Green Trust, for example, was interested in all the clients using the Ocean Club. Mark Warner primarily in the Mark Warner clients.

After Madeleine's disappearance there was a fine line to tread. Mark Warner continued to offer creche use to the twins, but it was likely to have been Green Trust who responded to customer complaints about the press disruption at the Tapas entrance which culminated in temporary withdrawal of the offer. The solution (by Mark Warner) involved the twins being delivered to MW staff at the 24 hour reception and being taken to the creche by them instead of the parents.

It's possible that these differences didn't help at the time of the disappearance, because there were two sets of employees with different loyalties and priorities. Reception was very much in the hands of the 'old guard'. As such they would be guided by those who had been running the Ocean Club for years; Crossland, Santos, the Batista's.

[Alice Purjorick]

Here is an even more enlightened overview of the responsibilities at OC in 2007 by the Algarve Resident.
"Resort helps family"  http://portugalresident.com/resort-helps-family

It indeed very enlightening. There is not one use of the word "abducted" and Mark Warner seem to be playing a game of CMA with respect to the child care arrangements available v those which actually obtained on the night.