They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?

[sadie]

They were in the back garden of their apartments, 50 metres away from 5A and overlooking the well illuminated patio area /windows that could otherwise have provided safe entry.   Amaral himself said that no intruder would consider entering that way when the Topas group were so close and overlooking the entrance.

The intruder almost certainly had a key and let himself or his accomplis in thru the totally hidden deeply recessede front door, which also was in almost total blackness ... no illumination and no-one passed by that door.

They left the front door locked.   Altho not double locked it required a key to enter the flat.  Since arricval, they had not touched the bedroom window and like most of us they thought that the shutter could NOT be opened from outside.  They believed it locked closed.

89

[Miss Taken Identity]

They were in the back garden of their apartments, 50 metres away from 5A and overlooking the well illuminated patio area /windows that could otherwise have provided safe entry.   Amaral himself said that no intruder would consider entering that way when the Topas group were so close and overlooking the entrance.

The intruder almost certainly had a key and let himself or his accomplis in thru the totally hidden deeply recessede front door, which also was in almost total blackness ... no illumination and no-one passed by that door.

They left the front door locked.   Altho not double locked it required a key to enter the flat.  Since arricval, they had not touched the bedroom window and like most of us they thought that the shutter could NOT be opened from outside.  They believed it locked closed.

No Sadie, they left their babies alone in an unlocked apartment. If they could see so clearly why did they not see this rampaging key weilding  gang you claim and frame? Could it be because you made that up?

[sadie]

No Sadie, they left their babies alone in an unlocked apartment. If they could see so clearly why did they not see this rampaging key weilding  gang you claim and frame? Could it be because you made that up?

I have been there and eaten at the Tapas Restaurant ... and noticed the closeness of the  distances (checked on GE) and observed at first hand how the Tapas area relates to 5A.

Have YOU been there and done the same?


If you had bothered to read reports properly, you would KNOW that the front door, which WAS LOCKED, was on the other side of the building to the Tapas Restaurant.
As far as Kate and Gerry were concerned the front of the building was secure.

[Miss Taken Identity]

I have been there and eaten at the Tapas Restaurant ... and noticed the closeness of the  distances (checked on GE) and observed at first hand how the Tapas area relates to 5A.

Have YOU been there and done the same?


If you had bothered to read reports properly, you would KNOW that the front door, which WAS LOCKED, was on the other side of the building to the Tapas Restaurant.
As far as Kate and Gerry were concerned the front of the building was secure.

NOBODY saw any key weilding gang grab Maddie and run.OR drive fast away from the apartments. End of abduction story right here. So no use me going over and nodding my head saying oh yeah it's quite close right enough. NEW POST: Missing child not found yet.

Sadie never saw the 'abductor'- doesn't know what happened to Maddie, unless she is involved in her disappearance, cannot solve the mystery by inventing theories and trying to pass them off as FACT.

[sadie]

NOBODY saw any key weilding gang grab Maddie and run.OR drive fast away from the apartments. End of abduction story right here. So no use me going over and nodding my head saying oh yeah it's quite close right enough. NEW POST: Missing child not found yet.

Agreed no one saw any key weilding gang grab Madeleine OR drive fast away from the apartments.  But you are mistaken if you think that is the end of the abduction story.  How come YOU know better than SY ?

Whether you like it or not, it was like being in their back garden  (we had a 50 metre back garden when our kids were little).  Whether you like it or not, they believed the front door to be locked and believed that the shutter could not be opened from outside ... so as far as they understood it, no-one could enter.  The only non-locked door was the patio door in a well illuminated area, which they overlooked from approx 50 metres.  Amaral said no-one would attempt to enter via the patio doors because of that.


Why do you keep on going over it ?  Senseless, the facts are the facts.  Like it or not.

Sadie never saw the 'abductor'- doesn't know what happened to Maddie, unless she is involved in her disappearance, cannot solve the mystery by inventing theories and trying to pass them off as FACT.

[G-Unit]

Agreed no one saw any key weilding gang grab Madeleine OR drive fast away from the apartments.  But you are mistaken if you think that is the end of the abduction story.  How come YOU know better than SY ?

Whether you like it or not, it was like being in their back garden  (we had a 50 metre back garden when our kids were little).  Whether you like it or not, they believed the front door to be locked and believed that the shutter could not be opened from outside ... so as far as they understood it, no-one could enter.  The only non-locked door was the patio door in a well illuminated area, which they overlooked from approx 50 metres.  Amaral said no-one would attempt to enter via the patio doors because of that.


Why do you keep on going over it ?  Senseless, the facts are the facts.  Like it or not.

The fact is that's all incorrect. The top half of the patio door was all that could be seen from the Tapas. It wasn't bathed in light as the crime scene pictures show and they weren't looking anyway. You still haven't provided a cite for your Amaral quote.

As the prosecutors said;

In effect, this group of friends was enjoying a short holiday period, therefore perfectly relaxed and it would be normal that, having dinner, inclusively with an entertainment service available [25], they were not very concerned with anything that might happen to their children during that dinner period.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

How very true, with the exception of it being 'normal'. Most 'normal' parents would find it very difficult to relax and enjoy dinner if their kids were home alone.

[Alfie]

The fact is that's all incorrect. The top half of the patio door was all that could be seen from the Tapas. It wasn't bathed in light as the crime scene pictures show and they weren't looking anyway. You still haven't provided a cite for your Amaral quote.

As the prosecutors said;

In effect, this group of friends was enjoying a short holiday period, therefore perfectly relaxed and it would be normal that, having dinner, inclusively with an entertainment service available [25], they were not very concerned with anything that might happen to their children during that dinner period.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

How very true, with the exception of it being 'normal'. Most 'normal' parents would find it very difficult to relax and enjoy dinner if their kids were home alone.

There's nothing particularly relaxing about getting up every thirty minutes to go and check on your children.

[stephen25000]

They were in the back garden of their apartments, 50 metres away from 5A and overlooking the well illuminated patio area /windows that could otherwise have provided safe entry.   Amaral himself said that no intruder would consider entering that way when the Topas group were so close and overlooking the entrance.

The intruder almost certainly had a key and let himself or his accomplis in thru the totally hidden deeply recessede front door, which also was in almost total blackness ... no illumination and no-one passed by that door.

They left the front door locked.   Altho not double locked it required a key to enter the flat.  Since arricval, they had not touched the bedroom window and like most of us they thought that the shutter could NOT be opened from outside.  They believed it locked closed.

Why do you persist in this fable of being in the 'back garden'  ?

As I said yesterday, it is easy to make excuses and blame others for your foibles.

It wasn't and never was the 'back garden'.

[Benice]

The fact is that's all incorrect. The top half of the patio door was all that could be seen from the Tapas. It wasn't bathed in light as the crime scene pictures show and they weren't looking anyway. You still haven't provided a cite for your Amaral quote.

As the prosecutors said;

In effect, this group of friends was enjoying a short holiday period, therefore perfectly relaxed and it would be normal that, having dinner, inclusively with an entertainment service available [25], they were not very concerned with anything that might happen to their children during that dinner period.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

How very true, with the exception of it being 'normal'. Most 'normal' parents would find it very difficult to relax and enjoy dinner if their kids were home alone.

So do you think the hundreds of thousands of parents who, having left their children asleep in their rooms, have then relaxed and enjoyed their dinner whilst on holiday would agree with you that they are not normal parents?

IMO your efforts to isolate the McCanns from  'normal' parents - because of their method of childcare are untenable as they involve completely ignoring/denying the existence of those thousands of other parents who have been doing the same as the McCanns  when on holiday for decades.

No matter how inconvenient it is to your attempts to single out the McCanns from other parents for the purpose of  condemning them because of their childcare arrangements  -  the existence of the Baby Listening method of childcare, offered to and used by other parents when on holiday, is an established fact and has been for years.   

The McCanns did not invent the Listening service and no amount of wishful thinking will change that.   

AIMHO

[stephen25000]

The parents could have eaten and drink in the apartment.

The doors, could have been secured.

The could have hired a babysitter from the creche.

There was no need to leave the children by themselves.

[Robittybob1]

The parents could have eaten and drink in the apartment.

The doors, could have been secured.

The could have hired a babysitter from the creche.

There was no need to leave the children by themselves.

No they weren't necessary.  The doors should have been secured I agree with that.

[sadie]

Why do you persist in this fable of being in the 'back garden'  ?

As I said yesterday, it is easy to make excuses and blame others for your foibles.

It wasn't and never was the 'back garden'.

YOU haven't been there and I have.  It was like a big back garden, with additional features to most.

Many families have back gardens in excess of 50 metres.   Ours was precisely 50 metres, so I have an understanding of what that distance means both sight and sound wise.

Please do not persist in denying that it was effectively the back garden to the flats, cos it WAS.  Go and have a look if you dont believe me.

[stephen25000]

YOU haven't been there and I have.  It was like a big back garden, with additional features to most.

Many families have back gardens in excess of 50 metres.   Ours was precisely 50 metres, so I have an understanding of what that distance means both sight and sound wise.

Please do not persist in denying that it was effectively the back garden to the flats, cos it WAS.  Go and have a look if you dont believe me.

It wasn't a back garden, and if you persist that it was, I can only seriously question your judgment.

Most people have back gardens in excess of 50 metres ?

Try to provide a cite for that.

[jassi]

It wasn't a back garden, and if you persist that it was, I can only seriously question your judgment.

Most people have back gardens in excess of 50 metres ?

Try to provide a cite for that.

They don't usually have a garden with a  high dividing wall with no gate running across it, either     

[sadie]

It wasn't a back garden, and if you persist that it was, I can only seriously question your judgment.

Most people have back gardens in excess of 50 metres ?

Try to provide a cite for that.

Dont twist my words Stephen.  I said MANY people have gardens in excess of 50 metres.

From what you have said previously it seems likely that places where you have lived (cities) would have very limited back gardens.  Country folk often have well in excess of 50 metres , as you must know.

At one stage in our lives, we were the poorest members of a wine tasting group of nine couples.  Every home, but two, had in excess of 50 metres back garden.   One house had a swimming pool and one house a tennis court.  A very wealthy neighbour had a small lake (it was so big and completely natural that it could not be called a pool) and a tennis court, and it was all much bigger than the tapas area.
All in a country village. 

Many people have gardens in excess of 50 metres