Another fairy tale as to how Sheila dun it.

[adam]

The above doesn't sound remotely plausible.  However I can't reconcile the physical evidence of bloodstaining, casings, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks with JB carrying out the shootings.

It seems clear to me that NB and SC were downstairs.  NB phoned JB.  Meanwhile SC goes upstairs and shoots June *5 or 6 times.  NB races upstairs and as he approaches the bedroom door he is stood on the landing stairs putting SC in an elevated position at the bedroom door which accounts for the downward trajectories of NB's lip and jaw gsw's.  NB then turns and is positioned on the main stairs facing down towards the hall when SC repositions herself either on the winder stairs or main stairs and fires down hitting the rear of NB's shoulder and elbow/chest which again accounts for the downward trajectories to the rear of his body. 

Once NB and SC are in the kitchen poor NB is so badly injured he is unable to put up any sort of resistance and is beaten with the rifle and then sustains the four gsw's to the head.

June staggers around the bed clutching the bible but drops it pretty much where it was found.  She manages to stagger back to the corner of the bed near the door where she sustains the two fatal gsw's to her head. 

After the twins are shot SC enters the main bedroom via the box room and takes her own life.  When she enters the main bedroom she inadvertently moves the bible with the door causing the mirror staining.

I think it was all over very quickly and more than likely before the police and JB arrived.

No phone call from NB to EP
No burning backs
No EP talking to someone within the farmhouse
No suicide notes
No second body seen in the kitchen
No bodies moving
No police shooting SC

*  Dr Vanezis' trial testimony states that June probably sustained a 6th non-fatal gsw - a graze across her chest.  This would then account for the 8th casing around her side of the bed and a further exited bullet in the bedroom - DRH/5.

If anyone disagrees can they please provide a complete reconstruction that fits with the physical evidence.  Thanks.

Mike says Sheila shot Nevill twice in the body. Nevill then rang Bamber & the police before being shot & killed.  This is a new theory on how Sheila committed the massacre.

Have you got a diagrram of where the bullet casings were in the main bedroom ? The only source I have is from the 2002 appeal which says Nevill was shot 4 times in the main bedroom.

I have always believed Nevill's two face shots from inches away were when Nevill was in the process of standing up. The arm shot was when Nevill was fully standing up,  as Bamber retreated but carried on shooting. The back of the shoulder shot was as Nevill headed out of the bedroom.

[Holly Goodhead]

Mike says Sheila shot Nevill twice in the body. Nevill then rang Bamber & the police before being shot & killed.  This is a new theory on how Sheila committed the massacre.

Have you got a diagrram of where the bullet casings were in the main bedroom ? The only source I have is from the 2002 appeal which says Nevill was shot 4 times in the main bedroom.

I have always believed Nevill's two face shots from inches away were when Nevill was in the process of standing up. The arm shot was when Nevill was fully standing up,  as Bamber retreated but carried on shooting. The back of the shoulder shot was as Nevill headed out of the bedroom.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7923.msg381336#msg381336

NB's gsw's to his lip and jaw went straight through from front to back.  The trajectories were only slightly downwards circa 20 degrees below the horizontal.  I'm not a pathologist or ballistics expert but I struggle to see what sort of postion(s) NB and his perp could be in to sustain these gsw's other than standing and facing each other?  How did NB then go from facing the perp to having his back to the perp when he sustained the shoulder and elbow/chest gsw's which also had downward trajectories? 

Why was none of NB's blood found in the bedroom?

Why do the casings support the theory that June sustained a total of 8 gsw's in the bedroom and NB 4 gsw's outside?

[tbl]

Holly, the link shows most of the casings found on the right hand side of the bed. Doesn't this imply that the killer was standing at the entrance to the bedroom, and shooting at Neville as he got out of bed?

Can you also explain how you think Neville let Sheila out of his sight? Wouldn't he have disarmed her before calling Jeremy (or anyone else)?

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly, the link shows most of the casings found on the right hand side of the bed. Doesn't this imply that the killer was standing at the entrance to the bedroom, and shooting at Neville as he got out of bed?

Can you also explain how you think Neville let Sheila out of his sight? Wouldn't he have disarmed her before calling Jeremy (or anyone else)?

If we exclude the 2 casings found by SC then we have 2/3rds or 66.6% around the right hand side of the bed (looking at the bed from the bottom to the top) (1 on the bed and 7 on the floor) and 1/3rd or 33.3% elsewhere.  June was shot 8 x's upstairs (66.6% of casings) and NB 4 x's upstairs (33.3% of casings).  For an accurate description of location and photographic evidence you need to refer to DC Hammersley's trial testimony:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=165.msg1769#msg1769

I think we have previously discussed that it is not possible to position the shooter or victim with pinpoint accuracy from casings alone.  We know the rifle ejects the casings upwards, forward and to the right.  But we can see from SC that the casings have landed at opposite sides of her head.  This could be caused by many factors such as a case ricocheting off the bedside cabinet; the shooter holding the rifle at a different angle; police officers kicking.

We have a cluster of 7 casings on the floor June's side of the bed and 1 on the bed June's side.  June sustained 7 entry gsw's and 1 graze wound. If NB was shot whilst in bed or in the process of getting out then why are there not more casings in that area of the bedroom?  How do you account for the 33.3% of casings elsewhere ie 2 by the door, 1 on the transition strip and 1 on the landing? 

Why would JB spend 6 bullets on June and only 4 on NB when NB was clearly the much greater threat to any plan going awry?

How could JB have inflicted the lip and jaw gsw's to NB's face at close range which went straight through from front to back both with 20 degree below the horizontal trajectories if JB was stood at the entrance of the bedroom and NB was in bed or in the process of getting out of?

How could NB then bypass JB to exit the room and sustain the gsw's to the back of his shoulder and elbow/chest which also had downwards trajectories?  Bearing in mind JB is some 4" shorter than the late NB.  Where are the casings for these wounds?

Why didn't the "violent struggle" take place upstairs or on the stairs or hall?

Why wasn't any of NB's blood found in the bedroom.  Two small spots were found on the landing but they were too small for grouping.  The significant blood staining outside the bedroom started on the stairs.  This wasn't tested but it seems obvious it was NB's since there's no evidence the other victims left the rooms they sustained gsw's in.

What was SC doing when all this was going on?  The toxicology tests didn't reveal any drugs other than her POM and traces of cannabis from previous days.  There's no evidence she was tied up or locked up or held in any way against her will.

In answer to your question about NB letting SC out of his sight this involves going down the subjective route and getting away from the objective physical and scientific evidence.  All we know is according to JB NB phoned and said "SC's gone crazy she's got the gun".  If this call was made (I certainly believe it was) then the assumption is that it was made from the cream coloured phone found in the kitchen as the handset was found off the cradle and on the kitchen worktop.  It doesn't necessarily follow that prior to this call NB and SC had been in the kitchen.  They may have been in the lounge and NB may have left to make the phone call. It's all supposition.  Blood staining, casings, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks are far more reliable forms of evidence.

Had JB been tried in the US yesteryear or today for sure a team comprising a forensic pathologist, ballistics expert, blood spatter expert etc would go into WHF with laster guns and map the whole thing out.  The fact Dr Vanezis went to WHF on 8th Aug but by his own admission didn't ask where the victims were shot or the casings were found is almost unbelievable.  To cap it all we have the so-called ballsitics expert, Malcolm Fletcher, tell the court part of his relevant experience involved "small amount of experience of having an air rifle as a small boy".  You simply could not make it up!
 

[scipio_usmc]

Sheila shoots the twins.

Neville is too scared to try to confront her so runs to call Jeremy to come do it even though it will take him a while to dress and arrive even if he does answer the phone.


Sheila walks through the kitchen to get more ammo and says I'm out of bullets but just you wait I'm going to kill you too.

Neville is too scared to disarm her as she is reloading in his office and instead decides to run and hide in bed with June hoping that Jeremy will come save them. 


Sheila goes to their bedroom and shoots them then Nevill runs back down the stairs and in the kitchen he is shot again and his body beaten.


Of course this scenario is idiotic but the alternative is to just admit Jeremy did it.  Some people prefer idiocy over reality and they make up such idiocy case after case. Some don't want to face reality because they are friends/relatives of the criminal. Others have an agenda and want to use the criminal to support that agenda. Others still are simply loons.

[tbl]

Holly, doesn't the downward trajectory simply indicate that the killer was standing up and Neville and June were in bed? I agree Neville was the main threat and would have been shot first, maybe Jeremy thought he was dead after the first few shots, and then targeted June?

[Tim Invictus]

Holly I find it incredulous that you have no problem endowing little waiflike Sheila with the tactical firearms abilities as described in your scenario. Did she take hand to hand combat and weapons handling courses at some stage?

Even more amazing is how you think a doting mother could execute her children in their sleep or could inflict such  up close and personal violence on her adored father. Sheila the gentle soul who was seen by neighbours skipping down Paiges Lane that very day with her lovely twins!

It is a scenario literally beyond belief!

       

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly, doesn't the downward trajectory simply indicate that the killer was standing up and Neville and June were in bed? I agree Neville was the main threat and would have been shot first, maybe Jeremy thought he was dead after the first few shots, and then targeted June?

Well its not just the trajectories to the lip and jaw but also:

- absence of NB's blood found in the bedroom
- casings
- range of shots
- track of wounds

According to Malcolm Fletcher the shots to NB's lip and jaw were fired at close range "within inches".  Although I don't find MF particularly reliable so this might be somewhat inaccurate.  The tracks of the wounds were straight on to the front of his face and went backwards. 

I detached a handle from a kitchen floor cleaner which I haven't actually measured but looks to be about the same length as the rifle and it is difficult to reconcile how the shooter could inflict these gsw's whilst NB was prone in bed given what we know in terms of the above info.  If I take it a step further how did NB then get out of bed and sustain gsw's to the back of his shoulder and elbow/chest? 

The length of a standard bed is 75" and a king and queen 78".  NB was 76" tall.  The rifle is 43" long and the silencer 7".  And Malcolm Fletcher said the shots were fired within inches but even if we assume MF was out with his measurements and say the distance was over 12" this would mean the shooter would literally have had to hang over the end of the bed and the trajectory would then surely be greater than 20 degrees below the horizontal?  Even if some configuration is possible how did NB then manage to get out of bed and sustain the gsw's to the back of his shoulder and elbow/chest?  Surely JB would have simply shot NB in the face or head again until he incapaciatated him.     

These important aspects of the case were completely overlooked during the investigation and trial.  And yet bizarrely all concerned must have had some idea about soc reconstruction as soc officers painstakingly seized and recorded every casing after photographing each one in situ.  Malcolm Fletcher gauged the distance of shots.  John Hayward tested various bloodstained exhibits.  Dr Vanezis recorded the trajectories and wound tracks.  All the relevant info was there and much of it was discussed at trial but there was a complete lack of joined up thinking and connecting dots.  I blame JB's defence. 

Today an animated 3d model would be produced as a court exhibit.  Anyone who followed the trial of OP will probably recall the emphasis that was put on soc reconstruction, trajectories etc.  This clearly should have happened in JB's case.  The good news is that all the info is still available as outlined above.  The CCRC have the power to order the owner(s) of WHF to make it available for accurate measurements.

Today all of this is routine:

http://www.knoxforensics.com/shoot.php   

 

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly I find it incredulous that you have no problem endowing little waiflike Sheila with the tactical firearms abilities as described in your scenario. Did she take hand to hand combat and weapons handling courses at some stage?

Even more amazing is how you think a doting mother could execute her children in their sleep or could inflict such  up close and personal violence on her adored father. Sheila the gentle soul who was seen by neighbours skipping down Paiges Lane that very day with her lovely twins!

It is a scenario literally beyond belief!
   

I try to remain objective and focus on the physical evidence which suggests to me SC was responsible. 

[scipio_usmc]

Well its not just the trajectories to the lip and jaw but also:

- absence of NB's blood found in the bedroom
- casings
- range of shots
- track of wounds

According to Malcolm Fletcher the shots to NB's lip and jaw were fired at close range "within inches".  Although I don't find MF particularly reliable so this might be somewhat inaccurate.  The tracks of the wounds were straight on to the front of his face and went backwards. 

I detached a handle from a kitchen floor cleaner which I haven't actually measured but looks to be about the same length as the rifle and it is difficult to reconcile how the shooter could inflict these gsw's whilst NB was prone in bed given what we know in terms of the above info.  If I take it a step further how did NB then get out of bed and sustain gsw's to the back of his shoulder and elbow/chest? 

The length of a standard bed is 75" and a king and queen 78".  NB was 76" tall.  The rifle is 43" long and the silencer 7".  And Malcolm Fletcher said the shots were fired within inches but even if we assume MF was out with his measurements and say the distance was over 12" this would mean the shooter would literally have had to hang over the end of the bed and the trajectory would then surely be greater than 20 degrees below the horizontal?  Even if some configuration is possible how did NB then manage to get out of bed and sustain the gsw's to the back of his shoulder and elbow/chest?  Surely JB would have simply shot NB in the face or head again until he incapaciatated him.     

These important aspects of the case were completely overlooked during the investigation and trial.  And yet bizarrely all concerned must have had some idea about soc reconstruction as soc officers painstakingly seized and recorded every casing after photographing each one in situ.  Malcolm Fletcher gauged the distance of shots.  John Hayward tested various bloodstained exhibits.  Dr Vanezis recorded the trajectories and wound tracks.  All the relevant info was there and much of it was discussed at trial but there was a complete lack of joined up thinking and connecting dots.  I blame JB's defence. 

Today an animated 3d model would be produced as a court exhibit.  Anyone who followed the trial of OP will probably recall the emphasis that was put on soc reconstruction, trajectories etc.  This clearly should have happened in JB's case.  The good news is that all the info is still available as outlined above.  The CCRC have the power to order the owner(s) of WHF to make it available for accurate measurements.

Today all of this is routine:

http://www.knoxforensics.com/shoot.php   

 

The range and trajectories are fully consistent with Nevill being shot while sitting up in bed with the shooter at the foot of the bed.  The location of the spent casings likewise are consistent (landing on June's side of the bed)

This is the only plausible scenario.

Countless times I have explained why he shot June first.  He could not shoot Nevill while he was asleep because that would make his claim Nevill phoned him impossible.  He needed Nevill to be awake when shot.  I don't know if he could have killed Nevill even if he shot in in his sleep given he failed to manage that against June.  But he would have had more ammo to expend on Nevill had he not wasted so much on June first.  So his plan to pretend he got a phone call harmed him in numerous respects, not merely by proving he had knowledge of the murders.


Had he planned to pretend he knew nothing about what transpired he could have targeted his father first and potentially have killed him in the bedroom.  That would have eliminated the fight in the kitchen.  Without the fight in the kitchen you have no reason of the victim's blood to be on the killer or the killer injured in any way. Furthermore, the phone call in the kitchen makes no sense in light of the evidence of the attack starting upstairs so not making any claims about a phone call would alleviate that problem as well. The plan to claim he received a phone call hurt more than many realize.