Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins night Madeleine was taken.

[Alice Purjorick]

One question. Is it ever acceptable, no matter what the circumstances, to suspect your child may have been given a lethal dose of an unknown sedative yet do nothing and alert no one?

That depends on where one is and who one is............

[Alfie]

One question. Is it ever acceptable, no matter what the circumstances, to suspect your child may have been given a lethal dose of an unknown sedative yet do nothing and alert no one?

Who suspected their child had been given a lethal dose of sedative?  I don't remember Kate ever stating she believed the twins were in grave danger of imminent death?

[Robittybob1]

One question. Is it ever acceptable, no matter what the circumstances, to suspect your child may have been given a lethal dose of an unknown sedative yet do nothing and alert no one?

Who was aware it was a lethal dose?  I suspect some might think you are referring to Kate or Gerry but maybe you are actually referring to the real suspect.

[Robittybob1]

That depends on where one is and who one is............

It is happening in Praia da Luz Portugal.  "Who one is", is harder to define.
But one would know who one is, exactly my old chap.

[ShiningInLuz]

Who suspected their child had been given a lethal dose of sedative?  I don't remember Kate ever stating she believed the twins were in grave danger of imminent death?

For those who think that chloroform is easy to make and horse tranquiliser is easy to obtain, please answer this.

The twins were two and a quarter.  What is the dose of home-made chloroform that sedates the children, but does not endanger their health?  Ditto horse tranquiliser?

Was this alleged abductor an expert anaesthetist?  Or maybe a vet?

The 'Kate was in a state of panic' argument but assessed that the twins were OK does not stand up to scrutiny for a second.

[Mr Gray]

For those who think that chloroform is easy to make and horse tranquiliser is easy to obtain, please answer this.

The twins were two and a quarter.  What is the dose of home-made chloroform that sedates the children, but does not endanger their health?  Ditto horse tranquiliser?

Was this alleged abductor an expert anaesthetist?  Or maybe a vet?

The 'Kate was in a state of panic' argument but assessed that the twins were OK does not stand up to scrutiny for a second.

You obviously have no medical knowledge
I administer sedation routinely
Vital signs normal
No need to worry
Even if they had been sedated it would be wearing of and they would not be in danger

[ShiningInLuz]

You obviously have no medical knowledge
I administer sedation routinely
Vital signs normal
No need to worry
Even if they had been sedated it would be wearing of and they would not be in danger

Does your sedation include chloroform or horse tranquilisers?

Rubbish.

[Mr Gray]

Does your sedation include chloroform or horse tranquilisers?

Rubbish.

Ì obviously have  knowledge of both
I don't believe the twins were sedated

[Robittybob1]

Does your sedation include chloroform or horse tranquilisers?

Rubbish.

Chloroform would need constant topping up if you wanted to sedate some one with that so we have ruled out chloroform.
Horse tranquiliser sounds serious and I experienced ACP myself once when a person spiked my drink.  It took a couple of days to get it out of my system.
Wikipedia "Acepromazine or acetylpromazine (more commonly known as ACP, Ace, or by the trade names Atravet or Acezine 2, number depending on mg/ml dose) is a phenothiazine derivative antipsychotic drug. It was used on humans during the 1950s as an antipsychotic,[1] but is now almost exclusively used on animals as a sedative and antiemetic. Its closely related analogue, chlorpromazine, is still used as an antipsychotic in humans. Acepromazine is used primarily as a chemical restraint in hyperactive or fractious animals. However, it does not relieve anxiety, and some believe it may make anxiety worse in the long run if used on an anxious animal (for example, thunderstorm phobias).
I think ACP is "horse tranquiliser" but further research it is more a term reserved for Ketamine.  A person who has taken ketamine says it is an hallucinogenic and hence it would tend to wake you up rather than a sedative.
 

Ì obviously have  knowledge of both
I don't believe the twins were sedated

They would not be sedated with either of these but I'm sure there could be something else more suitable like ACP.  Why would you discount sedating the children?

[Mr Gray]

Chloroform would need constant topping up if you wanted to sedate some one with that so we have ruled out chloroform.
Horse tranquiliser sounds serious and I experienced ACP myself once when a person spiked my drink.  It took a couple of days to get it out of my system.
Wikipedia "Acepromazine or acetylpromazine (more commonly known as ACP, Ace, or by the trade names Atravet or Acezine 2, number depending on mg/ml dose) is a phenothiazine derivative antipsychotic drug. It was used on humans during the 1950s as an antipsychotic,[1] but is now almost exclusively used on animals as a sedative and antiemetic. Its closely related analogue, chlorpromazine, is still used as an antipsychotic in humans. Acepromazine is used primarily as a chemical restraint in hyperactive or fractious animals. However, it does not relieve anxiety, and some believe it may make anxiety worse in the long run if used on an anxious animal (for example, thunderstorm phobias).
I think ACP is "horse tranquiliser" but further research it is more a term reserved for Ketamine.  A person who has taken ketamine says it is an hallucinogenic and hence it would tend to wake you up rather than a sedative.
  They would not be sedated with either of these but I'm sure there could be something else more suitable like ACP.  Why would you discount sedating the children?

How would a sedative be given and when
Oral sedatives take at least 20 mins to work
I have personal experience of young children being so tired from over activity that they are impossible to wake
That's why I believe the twins behaviour was not abnormal

[Robittybob1]

How would a sedative be given and when
Oral sedatives take at least 20 mins to work
I have personal experience of young children being so tired from over activity that they are impossible to wake
That's why I believe the twins behaviour was not abnormal

The logistics of dosing the kids especially all of them at one time is difficult to comprehend within such a small window of opportunity.  It is possible they were just tired and slept well and were not drugged at all.  Why would a kidnapper bother doping the twins anyway?  That didn't seem to make sense to me, but the question was whether Kate's concerns were listened to.  Maybe the PJ thought it unlikely so did nothing and therefore didn't mention it in their reports.

[Alice Purjorick]

It is happening in Praia da Luz Portugal.  "Who one is", is harder to define.
But one would know who one is, exactly my old chap.

Faithlilly's question was global; not restricted to PdL.

[faithlilly]

Who suspected their child had been given a lethal dose of sedative?  I don't remember Kate ever stating she believed the twins were in grave danger of imminent death?

And that's the point. We know from her own writings that she was concerned that the twins had been sedated. Why try to alert the PJ to the fact if she did not believe they were in danger?

[Alfie]

And that's the point. We know from her own writings that she was concerned that the twins had been sedated. Why try to alert the PJ to the fact if she did not believe they were in danger?

Hang on - I thought your criticism of Kate (one of many hundreds) was that she did not try to alert the PJ?  So which is it?
As far as I see it - she was concerned that night (but not fearful of the twins imminent death), but had more pressing worries in the disappearance of her eldest child, and her concerns for the twins took a back seat to the other major issue by morning when they were fully conscious and behaving normally.

[G-Unit]

Ì obviously have  knowledge of both
I don't believe the twins were sedated

We're not discussing whether you think the twins were sedated or not, we're discussing Kate McCann's ''fears that all three children could have been sedated'' and her failure to act upon her fears.

According to the descriptions given by various witnesses the twins were completely unresponsive to noise, light, cold and movement. That gives them a possible score of on the Ramsay Sedation Scale (which I'm sure you're familiar with given your medical knowledge).

I'm quite sure that all the doctors present knew that the very first thing you do if you have an unresponsive patient is try to rouse them; by shaking if necessary.

If police officers fail to rouse a drunk regularly in the cells it's a serious disciplinary offence.

If Kate McCann feared her twins had been sedated her first response should have been to attempt to waken them.