Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins night Madeleine was taken.

[Lace]

So do you agree that if Kate thought the twins had been gassed the first thing she should have done is summon medical help?

Just a reminder of the state Kate was in after she found Madeleine missing,  from Fiona's statement -


 'Awful, erm, I've never seen such horrible raw emotion in my life and I've seen a lot of it in my job. Erm, tut, she, she was just bereft, she didn't know what to do, she was just panicking, extremely frightened, extremely frightened for Madeleine and, erm, was wondering where she was or what was happening to her. And the helplessness, erm, of not being able to do anything, what should she be doing, what could they do. Erm, she was angry, really angry, tut, punching walls, kicking walls, she was covered in bruises the next day, because she just didn't know what, what else to do. She was angry at herself, she kept saying 'I've let her down. We've let her down Gerry', you know, 'We should have been here'. Erm, tut, she was praying a lot. Erm, I just don't think she knew what to do, what to do. And she was just howling. It was just, just awful. I think as time went on it just seemed a massive delay from when we said to Matt to phone the Police, erm, that hour, it was an hour, it just seemed like an eternity, where nothing was happening, tut. Erm, you know, we're all intelligent people, we were all trying to think what we should be doing and, you know, what's going to make a difference. And Kate's ringing, Gerry's ringing anybody under the sun, family, they just don't, they honestly just didn't know what to do. So there was a lot of, Gerry's in and out, I mean, they were just sobbing, going between sobbing and then feeling helpless and then ringing people and this frantic activity. Kate was desperate to have a Priest, which, you know, people find weird, but I think that was just her way of thinking 'At least I can pray for Madeleine' and her way of feeling that she was doing something. Erm, tut, but she wasn't functioning'.


Kate wasn't functioning,   but even though she wasn't functioning at the back of her mind was the stain on Madeleine's pyjama's and the thought,   had the abductor tried the night before,  and so in the midst of all the chaos she asks if the twins could be tested for drugs.    In my opinion I don't think the Police Officer took it seriously,  ok he said in a statement  three months later that the twins were sleeping through the noise,  but that was after Amaral had come up with his theory of the Calpol.

Fiona was watching the twins,   and we don't know whether they rolled into a different sleeping position, which people who unconscious do not do.

[Alfie]

So do you agree that if Kate thought the twins had been gassed the first thing she should have done is summon medical help?

I refer you to my post #24 on this thread.  I have said pretty much the same thing throughout this thread and my position hasn't altered.  I know that you think Kate should have zoomed off in an ambulance with the twins the minute she thought there was something unusual in their behaviour and I know that it gives you great pleasure to criticise the woman for not doing so.  I refuse to be judgemental on the matter as I wasn't there and was not in her shoes, but if it pleases you to keep harping on about the matter then that's your choice.  Enjoy.

[ShiningInLuz]

Just a reminder of the state Kate was in after she found Madeleine missing,  from Fiona's statement -


 'Awful, erm, I've never seen such horrible raw emotion in my life and I've seen a lot of it in my job. Erm, tut, she, she was just bereft, she didn't know what to do, she was just panicking, extremely frightened, extremely frightened for Madeleine and, erm, was wondering where she was or what was happening to her. And the helplessness, erm, of not being able to do anything, what should she be doing, what could they do. Erm, she was angry, really angry, tut, punching walls, kicking walls, she was covered in bruises the next day, because she just didn't know what, what else to do. She was angry at herself, she kept saying 'I've let her down. We've let her down Gerry', you know, 'We should have been here'. Erm, tut, she was praying a lot. Erm, I just don't think she knew what to do, what to do. And she was just howling. It was just, just awful. I think as time went on it just seemed a massive delay from when we said to Matt to phone the Police, erm, that hour, it was an hour, it just seemed like an eternity, where nothing was happening, tut. Erm, you know, we're all intelligent people, we were all trying to think what we should be doing and, you know, what's going to make a difference. And Kate's ringing, Gerry's ringing anybody under the sun, family, they just don't, they honestly just didn't know what to do. So there was a lot of, Gerry's in and out, I mean, they were just sobbing, going between sobbing and then feeling helpless and then ringing people and this frantic activity. Kate was desperate to have a Priest, which, you know, people find weird, but I think that was just her way of thinking 'At least I can pray for Madeleine' and her way of feeling that she was doing something. Erm, tut, but she wasn't functioning'.


Kate wasn't functioning,   but even though she wasn't functioning at the back of her mind was the stain on Madeleine's pyjama's and the thought,   had the abductor tried the night before,  and so in the midst of all the chaos she asks if the twins could be tested for drugs.    In my opinion I don't think the Police Officer took it seriously,  ok he said in a statement  three months later that the twins were sleeping through the noise,  but that was after Amaral had come up with his theory of the Calpol.

Fiona was watching the twins,   and we don't know whether they rolled into a different sleeping position, which people who unconscious do not do.

I have yet to see anything that evidences Kate asking for the twins to be tested around the time of the incident.  Have I missed something?

[faithlilly]

Just a reminder of the state Kate was in after she found Madeleine missing,  from Fiona's statement -


 'Awful, erm, I've never seen such horrible raw emotion in my life and I've seen a lot of it in my job. Erm, tut, she, she was just bereft, she didn't know what to do, she was just panicking, extremely frightened, extremely frightened for Madeleine and, erm, was wondering where she was or what was happening to her. And the helplessness, erm, of not being able to do anything, what should she be doing, what could they do. Erm, she was angry, really angry, tut, punching walls, kicking walls, she was covered in bruises the next day, because she just didn't know what, what else to do. She was angry at herself, she kept saying 'I've let her down. We've let her down Gerry', you know, 'We should have been here'. Erm, tut, she was praying a lot. Erm, I just don't think she knew what to do, what to do. And she was just howling. It was just, just awful. I think as time went on it just seemed a massive delay from when we said to Matt to phone the Police, erm, that hour, it was an hour, it just seemed like an eternity, where nothing was happening, tut. Erm, you know, we're all intelligent people, we were all trying to think what we should be doing and, you know, what's going to make a difference. And Kate's ringing, Gerry's ringing anybody under the sun, family, they just don't, they honestly just didn't know what to do. So there was a lot of, Gerry's in and out, I mean, they were just sobbing, going between sobbing and then feeling helpless and then ringing people and this frantic activity. Kate was desperate to have a Priest, which, you know, people find weird, but I think that was just her way of thinking 'At least I can pray for Madeleine' and her way of feeling that she was doing something. Erm, tut, but she wasn't functioning'.


Kate wasn't functioning,   but even though she wasn't functioning at the back of her mind was the stain on Madeleine's pyjama's and the thought,   had the abductor tried the night before,  and so in the midst of all the chaos she asks if the twins could be tested for drugs.    In my opinion I don't think the Police Officer took it seriously,  ok he said in a statement  three months later that the twins were sleeping through the noise,  but that was after Amaral had come up with his theory of the Calpol.

Fiona was watching the twins,   and we don't know whether they rolled into a different sleeping position, which people who unconscious do not do.

So where is the evidence, apart from Kate's claim 4 years later, that she asked the twins to be tested for anything? Even Gerry refutes her statement.

[faithlilly]

I refer you to my post #24 on this thread.  I have said pretty much the same thing throughout this thread and my position hasn't altered.  I know that you think Kate should have zoomed off in an ambulance with the twins the minute she thought there was something unusual in their behaviour and I know that it gives you great pleasure to criticise the woman for not doing so.  I refuse to be judgemental on the matter as I wasn't there and was not in her shoes, but if it pleases you to keep harping on about the matter then that's your choice.  Enjoy.

What brings me great pleasure Alfie is not what Kate did or didn't do that night but watching you performing contortions trying to explain it. 

[Alfie]

What brings me great pleasure Alfie is not what Kate did or didn't do that night but watching you performing contortions trying to explain it. 

Glad to be of service as always.  As I mentioned before I am not Kate McCann and am therefore not accountable for her actions, nor able to explain her every thought, action and deed anymore than you are.  The difference between us however is that I am open minded enough to give the woman the benefit of the doubt, you on the other hand hold the woman in such contempt that you only see malevolence in her every thought, action and deed.  Not only that you clearly spend far too much time dreaming up new angles of attack on the woman, and your contribution to this thread is testament to that.  If this was such an issue, why wasn't this apparent dereliction of duty mentioned in any of the questions but to the McCanns by the police or by Amaral in his book? 

[ferryman]

Glad to be of service as always.  As I mentioned before I am not Kate McCann and am therefore not accountable for her actions, nor able to explain her every thought, action and deed anymore than you are.  The difference between us however is that I am open minded enough to give the woman the benefit of the doubt, you on the other hand hold the woman in such contempt that you only see malevolence in her every thought, action and deed.  Not only that you clearly spend far too much time dreaming up new angles of attack on the woman, and your contribution to this thread is testament to that.  If this was such an issue, why wasn't this apparent dereliction of duty mentioned in any of the questions but to the McCanns by the police or by Amaral in his book?

So often what one perceives in others can be the mirror-image of the opposite state of mind.

[Alice Purjorick]

Would you like to explain how you have come to that conclusion?  I await your answer with interest.

Bear with me while I deliberate on whether to give it two pithy sentences or the full dog and pony show.
Then on the other hand I could just ignore it and let others read your contributions to the thread and form their own opinions.

[Benice]

Just a reminder of the state Kate was in after she found Madeleine missing,  from Fiona's statement -


 'Awful, erm, I've never seen such horrible raw emotion in my life and I've seen a lot of it in my job. Erm, tut, she, she was just bereft, she didn't know what to do, she was just panicking, extremely frightened, extremely frightened for Madeleine and, erm, was wondering where she was or what was happening to her. And the helplessness, erm, of not being able to do anything, what should she be doing, what could they do. Erm, she was angry, really angry, tut, punching walls, kicking walls, she was covered in bruises the next day, because she just didn't know what, what else to do. She was angry at herself, she kept saying 'I've let her down. We've let her down Gerry', you know, 'We should have been here'. Erm, tut, she was praying a lot. Erm, I just don't think she knew what to do, what to do. And she was just howling. It was just, just awful. I think as time went on it just seemed a massive delay from when we said to Matt to phone the Police, erm, that hour, it was an hour, it just seemed like an eternity, where nothing was happening, tut. Erm, you know, we're all intelligent people, we were all trying to think what we should be doing and, you know, what's going to make a difference. And Kate's ringing, Gerry's ringing anybody under the sun, family, they just don't, they honestly just didn't know what to do. So there was a lot of, Gerry's in and out, I mean, they were just sobbing, going between sobbing and then feeling helpless and then ringing people and this frantic activity. Kate was desperate to have a Priest, which, you know, people find weird, but I think that was just her way of thinking 'At least I can pray for Madeleine' and her way of feeling that she was doing something. Erm, tut, but she wasn't functioning'.


Kate wasn't functioning,   but even though she wasn't functioning at the back of her mind was the stain on Madeleine's pyjama's and the thought,   had the abductor tried the night before,  and so in the midst of all the chaos she asks if the twins could be tested for drugs.    In my opinion I don't think the Police Officer took it seriously,  ok he said in a statement  three months later that the twins were sleeping through the noise,  but that was after Amaral had come up with his theory of the Calpol.

Fiona was watching the twins,   and we don't know whether they rolled into a different sleeping position, which people who unconscious do not do.

Kate's extreme emotional state is often routinely ignored by many sceptics.  Why anyone would expect any mother in that situation to be able to behave logically and calmly as if she had just found out that a thief had broken into their apartment and stolen their camera -  is totally beyond me.


Thankfully I have never experienced losing my child - for even a few seconds, as other people have in supermarkets, on the beach etc.    However those who have will know what a terrible nightmare that is - and will remember their enormous relief when their child is found safe and well  - and so will have some understanding of Kate's state of mind. 

Kate's child was not found safe and well  - and those who criticise her for not being able to behave or think rationally in those terrible first hours are only proving they have no ability to put themselves in another person's shoes IMO. 

AIMHO

[Alfie]

Bear with me while I deliberate on whether to give it two pithy sentences or the full dog and pony show.
Then on the other hand I could just ignore it and let others read your contributions to the thread and form their own opinions.

For sure.  If they are able to read and comprehend English they will be sure to see there has been no "volte face" from me, only a silly bit of grandstanding from yourself.

[faithlilly]

Glad to be of service as always.  As I mentioned before I am not Kate McCann and am therefore not accountable for her actions, nor able to explain her every thought, action and deed anymore than you are.  The difference between us however is that I am open minded enough to give the woman the benefit of the doubt, you on the other hand hold the woman in such contempt that you only see malevolence in her every thought, action and deed.  Not only that you clearly spend far too much time dreaming up new angles of attack on the woman, and your contribution to this thread is testament to that.  If this was such an issue, why wasn't this apparent dereliction of duty mentioned in any of the questions but to the McCanns by the police or by Amaral in his book?

The PJ did mention the twins unresponsive state.

Gerry's arguido statement :

'
--- When questioned if the twins woke while the apartment was being searched, he replies negatively. When they were taken to another apartment he does not know if they woke as he did not take them. When asked, he says that this was not normal, and can find no reason for it happening. He still thought at this moment that the twins might have been drugged by the possible abductor, even if he only mentioned this to the Police several days later. When questioned, he says he never gave his children anything to help them sleep, nor did Kate.'

[faithlilly]

Kate's extreme emotional state is often routinely ignored by many sceptics.  Why anyone would expect any mother in that situation to be able to behave logically and calmly as if she had just found out that a thief had broken into their apartment and stolen their camera -  is totally beyond me.


Thankfully I have never experienced losing my child - for even a few seconds, as other people have in supermarkets, on the beach etc.    However those who have will know what a terrible nightmare that is - and will remember their enormous relief when their child is found safe and well  - and so will have some understanding of Kate's state of mind. 

Kate's child was not found safe and well  - and those who criticise her for not being able to behave or think rationally in those terrible first hours are only proving they have no ability to put themselves in another person's shoes IMO. 

AIMHO

Kate was controlled enough to ask for a priest but not medical help. Really?

And Gerry was controlled enough to phone and text family and friends but not ask for an ambulance. Really?

[Benice]

Kate was controlled enough to ask for a priest but not medical help. Really?

And Gerry was controlled enough to phone and text family and friends but not ask for an ambulance. Really?

IMO you obviously find the above to be illogical.     People in deep shock do not behave in a logical manner.  Surely from your own point of view you are simply proving that point with those two examples?

From my own POV - I don't find anything the McCanns did to be 'sinister' in any way.   Their reactions were their reactions.  You may find their reactions do not conform with how you you would have reacted - but they are not you are they?

There is a myriad of possible different reactions by human beings to severe trauma.   None of them are wrong - just different. 

[Alfie]

The PJ did mention the twins unresponsive state.

Gerry's arguido statement :

'
--- When questioned if the twins woke while the apartment was being searched, he replies negatively. When they were taken to another apartment he does not know if they woke as he did not take them. When asked, he says that this was not normal, and can find no reason for it happening. He still thought at this moment that the twins might have been drugged by the possible abductor, even if he only mentioned this to the Police several days later. When questioned, he says he never gave his children anything to help them sleep, nor did Kate.'

I know they did, what they didn't question was Kate's alleged dereliction of duty in rushing them to hospital as you claim any caring, loving parent would certainly have done in the circumstances. 

[Alfie]

Kate was controlled enough to ask for a priest but not medical help. Really?

And Gerry was controlled enough to phone and text family and friends but not ask for an ambulance. Really?

You have excused some of the barmier parts of your own theory on the McCanns being in a panicked state - so were they panicked or controlled?  You choose!