Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins night Madeleine was taken.

[Mr Gray]

The thought that the twins were unresponsive and Kate did nothing is absurd

[ShiningInLuz]

Patients who are sedated are responsive

Have you noticed that the word in the thread title is 'drugged'?  We are 65 pages into drugged, anaesthetics, gassed and other topics, such as unresponsive twins.

[Mr Gray]

Cite your evidence to support that statement.

I'll see if I can find something tomorrow
Obviously you know nothing about it
The whole point of sedation is that the patient stays responsive
If not the patient is oversedated

[Mr Gray]

Have you noticed that the word in the thread title is 'drugged'?  We are 65 pages into drugged, anaesthetics, gassed and other topics, such as unresponsive twins.

Kate never used the word drugged
Nor unresponsive
And you still have failed to provide the cite
I would say it doesn't exist

[stephen25000]

You made the statement.

Now, support or withdraw it.

Also, of course, any administered drugs, anesthetics, sedatives's effects, will depend on the dosage level.

Giving a bland , people will respond, is simply ludicrous.

So why not give a cite now ?

Or did you simply type your statement without the necessary research or actual knowledge ?

[Mr Gray]

You made the statement.

Now, support or withdraw it.

Also, of course, any administered drugs, anesthetics, sedatives's effects, will depend on the dosage level.

Giving a bland , people will respond, is simply ludicrous.

So why not give a cite now ?

Or did you simply type your statement without the necessary research or actual knowledge ?

40 years of administering sedation
I'm posting on my phone
Still jet lagged after my wonderful Christmas new year break
Sedation is now known as conscious sedation and patients should be responsive at all times

[ShiningInLuz]

Kate never used the word drugged
Nor unresponsive
And you still have failed to provide the cite
I would say it doesn't exist

Personally, I am not limited to the words used by Kate.  Nor are other forum members.  It is not for me to say whether you are or not, but please do not try to limit forum members to Kate's words of choice.

Drugged = thread title.
Gassed. From memory, Alfie first raised that idea then seemingly wished it had not been raised.
Anaesthetics.  Just what were Kate and Jane?  Has the thread got all of that wrong?
Unresponsive.  A simple English word.

[stephen25000]

Are you talking about just dentistry ?

Since that has no relevance to this case.

Or are you suggesting that your favoured 'abductor'was a dentist ?

[Mr Gray]

So what's the mortality rate from sedatives
The twins were in no danger

[Mr Gray]

Are you talking about just dentistry ?

Since that has no relevance to this case.

Or are you suggesting that your favoured 'abductor'was a dentist ?

I'm talking about 40 yrs experience in sedation
Does that have any relevance

[stephen25000]

That is an unsupported statement.

[stephen25000]

https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/CG112/chapter/1-Guidance#clinical-environment-and-monitoring


The following is taken from the American guidelines which are the basis for international guidelines

Minimal Sedation (Anxiolysis) is a drug-induced state during which patients respond normally to verbal commands. Although cognitive function and physical coordination may be impaired, airway reflexes, and ventilatory and cardiovascular functions are unaffected.


Moderate Sedation/Analgesia (“Conscious Sedation”) is a drug-induced depression of consciousness during which patients respond purposefully to verbal commands, either alone or accompanied by light tactile stimulation. Reflex withdrawal from a painful stimulus is NOT considered a purposeful response. No interventions are required to maintain a patent airway, and spontaneous ventilation is adequate. Cardiovascular function is usually maintained.

Deep Sedation/Analgesia is a drug-induced depression of consciousness during which patients cannot be easily aroused but respond purposefully following repeated or painful stimulation. The ability to independently maintain ventilatory function may be impaired. Patients may require assistance in maintaining a patent airway, and spontaneous ventilation may be inadequate. Cardiovascular function is usually maintained.

[Mr Gray]

https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/CG112/chapter/1-Guidance#clinical-environment-and-monitoring

Unfortunately, I can't reproduce the table here, but people can see it for themselves

The following is taken from the American guidelines which are the basis for international guidelines

Minimal Sedation (Anxiolysis) is a drug-induced state during which patients respond normally to verbal commands. Although cognitive function and physical coordination may be impaired, airway reflexes, and ventilatory and cardiovascular functions are unaffected.


Moderate Sedation/Analgesia (“Conscious Sedation”) is a drug-induced depression of consciousness during which patients respond purposefully to verbal commands, either alone or accompanied by light tactile stimulation. Reflex withdrawal from a painful stimulus is NOT considered a purposeful response. No interventions are required to maintain a patent airway, and spontaneous ventilation is adequate. Cardiovascular function is usually maintained.

Deep Sedation/Analgesia is a drug-induced depression of consciousness during which patients cannot be easily aroused but respond purposefully following repeated or painful stimulation. The ability to independently maintain ventilatory function may be impaired. Patients may require assistance in maintaining a patent airway, and spontaneous ventilation may be inadequate. Cardiovascular function is usually maintained.

Thanks for the cite
It confirms that sedated patients are responsive

[stephen25000]

Define responsive.

READ AGAIN.


Deep Sedation/Analgesia is a drug-induced depression of consciousness during which patients cannot be easily aroused but respond purposefully following repeated or painful stimulation. The ability to independently maintain ventilatory function may be impaired. Patients may require assistance in maintaining a patent airway, and spontaneous ventilation may be inadequate. Cardiovascular function is usually maintained.

That is an induced response, not of the patients initiation.

[Alfie]

Personally, I am not limited to the words used by Kate.  Nor are other forum members.  It is not for me to say whether you are or not, but please do not try to limit forum members to Kate's words of choice.

Drugged = thread title.
Gassed. From memory, Alfie first raised that idea then seemingly wished it had not been raised.
Anaesthetics.  Just what were Kate and Jane?  Has the thread got all of that wrong?
Unresponsive.  A simple English word.

Cite for me wishing gassed had not been raised or withdraw your claim.